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Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: mikemee1331] #1219893
04/22/12 02:30 PM
04/22/12 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Quote:

Quote:

I don't understand this..
"New six pack set up. Dyno last month @715 ft lb of torque."
Was the tune rich then? Doesn't your dyno guy tune the engine?
You still haven't answered how the engine is set-up and how you have the carbs now. I have found the 6-pack is just like any other carb'd car. You have to start from square one and go step by step. For your application, given the cubes I'd start out w/ 70 jets, 35 squirters, 6.5PV and maybe the plain springs. I'd turn the mixture screws in all the way in then back them out 1.25 turns. I turn the idle screw up to and start the car. I let it run at about 2200-2400rpm and set the total timing at 36* (don't forget to unhook the vac advance if you are running one) Then I'd turn the idle down to 900-1000 and adjust for best vacuum and check initial, it should be around 16-18*. Then you can go for a test drive. Check for flat spots, bogs and whatever else. Pay closer attention to how the car responds and no so much the a/f meter. Do that and get back with us.


the fuel pump he installed is the carter high volume. it has a fuel pressure rating at 8-9.5 psi. put in the regulator, get the pressure down to 4ish and then do the above.




I have mine at just over 6.... and I'm using Summit's Cheapo regulator and a Holley Blue.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1219894
04/22/12 02:35 PM
04/22/12 02:35 PM
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Posts: 37
Minnesota
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Shawnb Offline OP
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Holley blue?

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1219895
04/22/12 02:38 PM
04/22/12 02:38 PM
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bethlehem pa
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't understand this..
"New six pack set up. Dyno last month @715 ft lb of torque."
Was the tune rich then? Doesn't your dyno guy tune the engine?
You still haven't answered how the engine is set-up and how you have the carbs now. I have found the 6-pack is just like any other carb'd car. You have to start from square one and go step by step. For your application, given the cubes I'd start out w/ 70 jets, 35 squirters, 6.5PV and maybe the plain springs. I'd turn the mixture screws in all the way in then back them out 1.25 turns. I turn the idle screw up to and start the car. I let it run at about 2200-2400rpm and set the total timing at 36* (don't forget to unhook the vac advance if you are running one) Then I'd turn the idle down to 900-1000 and adjust for best vacuum and check initial, it should be around 16-18*. Then you can go for a test drive. Check for flat spots, bogs and whatever else. Pay closer attention to how the car responds and no so much the a/f meter. Do that and get back with us.


the fuel pump he installed is the carter high volume. it has a fuel pressure rating at 8-9.5 psi. put in the regulator, get the pressure down to 4ish and then do the above.




I have mine at just over 6.... and I'm using Summit's Cheapo regulator and a Holley Blue.


if i told you i have a Cagle would you laugh at me?

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1219896
04/22/12 02:50 PM
04/22/12 02:50 PM
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Minnesota
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Shawnb Offline OP
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Here is the best I can tell you from my mobile. Not at my shop where cam data and such is. 543" stroker, ported Edelbrock heads, aggressive cam, long duration, roller cam, lifters, rockers, 10.8:1 compression. 3.5" collector Hookers to electric cut outs then 3" Flowmaster. Bone ass stock 6 pack carbs. The carbs are at the Carb shop and should be done Tuesday. What he is doing is unknown. He says he does big stroke tri powers on a regular basis. He knows what works. Dyno day was a fiasco. Pertronix distributor advance didn't work. Had to rush home 40 miles away to get my back up dist. High review did do 700-715 torque@ 34 to 36 degrees. Never had time to tune. Idled high. Was not ideal. Car still has the back up 440 source electronic distributor which works fine. Only reason I bought the Pertronix to begin with is the internal rev limiter. Timing is consistent and seems to be correct. All advance in by 3000. Vacuum at idle unknown today. Remember runs very rich with both sets of six pack carbs. The 2nd set is off my other Bee and that one runs great with them. ???? More info needed? Thanks.

Last edited by Shawnb; 04/23/12 01:57 AM.
Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219897
04/22/12 03:36 PM
04/22/12 03:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

Here is the best I can tell you from my mobile. Not at my shop where came data and such is. 543" stroker, ported Edelbrock heads, aggressive cam, long duration, roller cam, lifters, rockers, 10.8:1 compression. Bone ass stock 6 pack carbs. The carbs are at the Carb shop and should be done Tuesday. What he is doing is unknown. He says he does big stroke tri powers on a regular basis. He knows what works I guess. Dyno day was a fiasco. Pertronix distributor advance didn't work. Had to rush home 40 miles away to get my back up dist. High review did do 700-715 torque@ 34 to 36 degrees. Never had time to tune. Idled high . Was not ideal.




I rest my case, the fuel pressure is the least of your worries.
Worry about your distributer, not the carbs.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: mikemee1331] #1219898
04/22/12 04:04 PM
04/22/12 04:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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if i told you i have a Cagle would you laugh at me?

what's a Cagle?

Holley Blue is a holley blue pump...

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1219899
04/22/12 04:52 PM
04/22/12 04:52 PM
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Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:

if i told you i have a Cagle would you laugh at me?

what's a Cagle?

Holley Blue is a holley blue pump...


company folded when the inventor died but they work GREAT if you can find one - http://www.docstoc.com/docs/39782510/Vac...-Patent-4745904

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: mikemee1331] #1219900
04/22/12 07:37 PM
04/22/12 07:37 PM
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Id go with CAB, and work on the jets/pv with all this six pack stuff going on ive been a little rich on my idle side, Ive had a 1.0 lesser PV and sure enough I went from possibly killing the family behind me with fumes to where it would take there sniffer stick to get me...well maybe not.

I dont know if most can get there center carb off as is but I got to start at the back and work forward.

7175301-DSC08826.JPG (125 downloads)
Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219901
04/22/12 08:27 PM
04/22/12 08:27 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Check the float levels. On my friends 6-pack we could not get the end carbs float level down. He has an electric fuel pump and was putting out 9-PSI which was bending the float arms on the outer carbs.
The outer carbs used the nitrofil float and has aluminum float arms, the center carb used a brass float with the brass float arm and the extra pressure did not seem to mess up that center carb.
Long story short, reduced fuel pressure to 5-PSI, straightened the bent float arms, and readjusted the float levels.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219902
04/23/12 02:05 AM
04/23/12 02:05 AM
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Minnesota
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Here is the more complete set up info. All help is welcome. Thanks

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219903
04/23/12 02:07 AM
04/23/12 02:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
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Minnesota
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Shawnb Offline OP
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Quote:

Here is the best I can tell you from my mobile. Not at my shop where cam data and such is. 543" stroker, ported Edelbrock heads, aggressive cam, long duration, roller cam, lifters, rockers, 10.8:1 compression. 3.5" collector Hookers to electric cut outs then 3" Flowmaster. Bone ass stock 6 pack carbs. The carbs are at the Carb shop and should be done Tuesday. What he is doing is unknown. He says he does big stroke tri powers on a regular basis. He knows what works. Dyno day was a fiasco. Pertronix distributor advance didn't work. Had to rush home 40 miles away to get my back up dist. Did 700-715 torque@ 34 to 36 degrees. Never had time to tune. Idled high. Was not ideal. Car still has the back up 440 source electronic distributor which works fine. Only reason I bought the Pertronix to begin with is the internal rev limiter. Timing is consistent and seems to be correct. All advance in by 3000. Vacuum at idle unknown today. Remember runs very rich with both sets of six pack carbs. The 2nd set is off my other Bee and that one runs great with them. ???? More info needed? Thanks.



Last edited by Shawnb; 04/23/12 02:20 AM.
Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219904
04/23/12 02:54 PM
04/23/12 02:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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My suggestion is to swap distributers and see if I'm right, your 440 ----- distributer needs to be setup for your engine. Has it?

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Challenger 1] #1219905
04/23/12 08:37 PM
04/23/12 08:37 PM
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My carbs will be back from the carb shop Wednesday am and Im going to use my new MSD ready to run distributor as well. I will add the Holley regulator as well and see what happens.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Challenger 1] #1219906
04/24/12 01:29 AM
04/24/12 01:29 AM
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The 440 source distributor was a cheap out of the box dist. Nothing was set up. You mean changing the curve on it? Can you even do that with one of those? And has anyone had a positive experience with one of these or the MSD ready to run distributor. I have one of each.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219907
04/24/12 08:12 AM
04/24/12 08:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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I haven't run either but if I had to choose between the 2, I think I'd go w/ the MSD. That said there is no reason the 440 Source unit shouldn't work. You do understand that with your cubic inches and agressive cam that you will want a "locked" distributor mean it may have to be welded and all your timing should come in full at 2400. I think you should addres the fuel presure problem 1st. if you have too much pressure it will run like poo poo.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1219908
04/24/12 05:36 PM
04/24/12 05:36 PM
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bethlehem pa
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Quote:

I haven't run either but if I had to choose between the 2, I think I'd go w/ the MSD. That said there is no reason the 440 Source unit shouldn't work. You do understand that with your cubic inches and agressive cam that you will want a "locked" distributor mean it may have to be welded and all your timing should come in full at 2400. I think you should addres the fuel presure problem 1st. if you have too much pressure it will run like poo poo.


(again). one change at a time!

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219909
04/24/12 06:06 PM
04/24/12 06:06 PM
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Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

The 440 source distributor was a cheap out of the box dist. Nothing was set up. You mean changing the curve on it? Can you even do that with one of those? And has anyone had a positive experience with one of these or the MSD ready to run distributor. I have one of each.




I meant limiting your total timing so you can run like 20 intial timing so that your carburator can be used in the idle circuit with that big cam you have. Don't worry about the springs just yet, some distributers need to be welded to limit the overall timing? I think that's what yuck was saying above?

Not sure about the MSD how it's setup other than it's gonna rust under the cap after you use for a while.

I like the MP distributers because they are adjustable inside. Just have to replace the pickup inside when it's new so it'll work under load without breaking up. I fixed 3 MP distributers that all did the same thing new out of the box. Replaced the brand new pickup inside and problems(breaking up under load) went away.
The distributer itself is pretty cool because it's adjustable, totally adjustable.

And I don't think "locked" is best for the street, why not set it up with 15 degrees of mechanical advance and run 18-20 intial timing with that big cam?

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Shawnb] #1219910
04/24/12 06:25 PM
04/24/12 06:25 PM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

My carbs will be back from the carb shop Wednesday am and Im going to use my new MSD ready to run distributor as well. I will add the Holley regulator as well and see what happens.




What does that mean? How is it setup?

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: Challenger 1] #1219911
04/24/12 07:39 PM
04/24/12 07:39 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

My carbs will be back from the carb shop Wednesday am and Im going to use my new MSD ready to run distributor as well. I will add the Holley regulator as well and see what happens.




What does that mean? How is it setup?


the ready to run MSD unit just has a built in ECU. it's not 'ready to run' in the respect of having timing built in. he will still have to do that.

Re: Six Pack stroker way too rich? [Re: mikemee1331] #1219912
04/24/12 07:57 PM
04/24/12 07:57 PM
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4 psi for holleys is too low on fuel pressure. Run them at 6-7.5 psi. I've run them as high as 8 on occasion. It's not a carter or ede carb. 9 psi, you are likely blowing by the needles, no amount of jetting change is going to help with that much pressure.

Fix the timing and get your initial timing set where the engine wants it, then limit mechanical to hit your total number. It may not even like any mechanical and may like being locked out at total.

You've got multiple issues here. No simple one stop fix!

Keep driving it with the 8-10 AF's on pump gas/race fuel, not meth or e85, and you'll be tearing it down soon with a bunch of killed cylinders.

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