New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
#1205722
03/29/12 01:54 PM
03/29/12 01:54 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433 Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
|
Hey guys, I know there are various threads on here that cover new hemi builds of various varieties, parts interchangeability, etc. However, I like many others have thought about performing the swap into their cars, yet find it hard to lay out a list of I will need and how much everything would roughly cost. I think that is part of why so many guys stay away from the swap, since they are not sure what is involved. Anyways, I was thinking that maybe this thread could be a place where people who have retrofitted these engines into the older body styles can post up their builds (i.e. what parts were used in their actual engine build, rough cost if comfortable sharing) as well as what parts were NEEDED to get the engine to work in your car (i.e. special headers, mounts, etc. and what the cost was). I know it might be a lot of info to share, and some may not be willing, but I think it could be a great way to share the potential these motors have and just what is needed to get them running in an older car If anyone would care to share, im sure I and many others would greatly appreciate it
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: mshred]
#1205723
03/29/12 02:16 PM
03/29/12 02:16 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645 Houston, Tx
AlexP
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
|
They really are 99% bolt in now. I'm using off the shelf headers, oilpan and mounts. The rest of the hardware is pretty straight forward. Just using an old lakewood SB bell housing for the trans with a Mopar 10.5" flywheel for the Hemi. My swap is easier than most because I built the car to take EFI and big power years ago. I've already got a 1/2 Feed and return fuel system in stainless hardline and a Painless wiring harness for easy hook up. My motorbuild will be as follows: 6.1 Based motor (I've already got a .030 6.1 block and several 6.1 cranks) Either a forged 6.1 or a forged 7.0. If I go 6.1 I'll run it with my 64cc eagles for 10:1 and then swap to a stock big chamber apache for 9:1 later and throw a 3.6LC Kenne Bell on. Instant 800+rwhp on pump fuel. 5.7 Eagle heads ported by GTP here in Houston (360 cfm at .500) Ported 6.1 intake by GTP. Cam By Steve Frank FAST XFI with 92mm TB a walboro pump/surge tank Mopar SRT4 stage 1 or 2 injectors TTI 1 7/8 headers back to a 2.5" H-pipe Exhaust (Small, I know) 23 spline 833 with a Centerforce DF and a 3.54 Dana 60. No plans for an OD unit or anything special. I'd be shooting for at least 500rwhp from an N/A 6.1 (374) or about 600rwhp from a 426 on pump fuel.
Last edited by AlexP; 03/29/12 02:18 PM.
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: AlexP]
#1205724
03/29/12 02:44 PM
03/29/12 02:44 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433 Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
|
Quote:
They really are 99% bolt in now.
I'm using off the shelf headers, oilpan and mounts. The rest of the hardware is pretty straight forward. Just using an old lakewood SB bell housing for the trans with a Mopar 10.5" flywheel for the Hemi.
My swap is easier than most because I built the car to take EFI and big power years ago. I've already got a 1/2 Feed and return fuel system in stainless hardline and a Painless wiring harness for easy hook up.
My motorbuild will be as follows:
6.1 Based motor (I've already got a .030 6.1 block and several 6.1 cranks)
Either a forged 6.1 or a forged 7.0. If I go 6.1 I'll run it with my 64cc eagles for 10:1 and then swap to a stock big chamber apache for 9:1 later and throw a 3.6LC Kenne Bell on. Instant 800+rwhp on pump fuel.
5.7 Eagle heads ported by GTP here in Houston (360 cfm at .500)
Ported 6.1 intake by GTP.
Cam By Steve Frank
FAST XFI with 92mm TB a walboro pump/surge tank
Mopar SRT4 stage 1 or 2 injectors
TTI 1 7/8 headers back to a 2.5" H-pipe Exhaust (Small, I know)
23 spline 833 with a Centerforce DF and a 3.54 Dana 60. No plans for an OD unit or anything special.
I'd be shooting for at least 500rwhp from an N/A 6.1 (374) or about 600rwhp from a 426 on pump fuel.
Wow, that sounds like an awesome combo!
If you don't mind sharing, how much do you think you have roughly into the entire build/swap?
Also, are those heads stock other than the porting?
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: mshred]
#1205725
03/29/12 02:46 PM
03/29/12 02:46 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025
S.E. Michigan
|
As said, it's not particularly difficult anymore.
Nearly stock 5.7 installed in '69 Charger originally equipped with broken 440/727. For cruisin' not racin', fairly low buck.
It's not mine, it's my buddys. I rebuilt the lower end of the used 5.7, he put the heads and intake on. It's just a stock rebuild other than it has a used steel 6.1 crank that I just threw in there without thinking about potential balance issues (haven't had any issues with it).
-a small block 727 with manual valve body and converter -Mopar Performance flexplate -TTI headers and conversion mounts, homemade exhaust -Mopar Performance oil pan (now ns1, use Milodon instead) -The same radiator as before with custom radiator hoses (went into the back room at the parts store, bought about 30 radiator hoses, used two that worked, returned the rest) -A/C delete with a belt re-route -a low buck power steering cooler consisting of a really long pressure line with lots of bends in it -A generic aftermarket electric fan -Alternator B+ wire re-routed directly to B+ -Mopar Performance crate computer, intake manifold and throttle body (FI) (he found a killer deal on ebay) -stock rails and injectors from a 2004 pickup truck -electric fuel pump and filter
He could have saved money with hooker headers instead of tti (I don't know why hooker does not promote them better), or might have found exhaust manifolds that would work. He could have carb'd it for less and used an msd for ignition also.
But that's a low buck deal. Really the sky's the limit if you want to throw more cash at it.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: ZIPPY]
#1205726
03/29/12 02:57 PM
03/29/12 02:57 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433 Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
|
Quote:
As said, it's not particularly difficult anymore.
Nearly stock 5.7 installed in '69 Charger originally equipped with broken 440/727. For cruisin' not racin', fairly low buck.
It's not mine, it's my buddys. I rebuilt the lower end of the used 5.7, he put the heads and intake on. It's just a stock rebuild other than it has a used steel 6.1 crank that I just threw in there without thinking about potential balance issues (haven't had any issues with it).
-a small block 727 with manual valve body and converter -Mopar Performance flexplate -TTI headers and conversion mounts, homemade exhaust -Mopar Performance oil pan (now ns1, use Milodon instead) -The same radiator as before with custom radiator hoses (went into the back room at the parts store, bought about 30 radiator hoses, used two that worked, returned the rest) -A/C delete with a belt re-route -a low buck power steering cooler consisting of a really long pressure line with lots of bends in it -A generic aftermarket electric fan -Alternator B+ wire re-routed directly to B+ -Mopar Performance crate computer, intake manifold and throttle body (FI) (he found a killer deal on ebay) -stock rails and injectors from a 2004 pickup truck -electric fuel pump and filter
He could have saved money with hooker headers instead of tti (I don't know why hooker does not promote them better), or might have found exhaust manifolds that would work. He could have carb'd it for less and used an msd for ignition also.
But that's a low buck deal. Really the sky's the limit if you want to throw more cash at it.
How much power would you guess he ended up with?
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: AlexP]
#1205727
03/29/12 03:02 PM
03/29/12 03:02 PM
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723 Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
|
My build is ready to go in, it just needs me to stop working long enough to put it in. 348 ci 3G Hemi: 5.7 block, .020 over 6.1 forged crank K1 rods Wiseco 11:1 pistons (actually 11.8:1 with my shaved heads) Extreme/Stage 3 Frank Racing 5.7 heads (360 cfm intake) GTP Ported 6.1 intake 223/227 @ .050, 113+4 TKO600 w/ Hydraulic clutch Full Floater ford 9" (haven't bought yet) I will be road racing this car. I'll update my site when I finally get around to working on it again. www.3gduster.com
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar -'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1205728
03/29/12 03:08 PM
03/29/12 03:08 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828 houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
|
and my build.
426 based 6.1 stroker. 8.8:1 compression. 383 cfm stock casting head, 6.1 based btw. cam by me. arp studded with a srt jeep bracket assy bolted on allowing the use of a vortech t - trim head unit. shooting for about 12-15 psi and 650-750 rwhp
bolted to a a833 4 speed or a tremec. if i can gather the parts for the tremec soon.
steve
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: gremlinsteve]
#1205729
03/29/12 03:12 PM
03/29/12 03:12 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433 Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
|
Some real nice builds going!
Curious to know little things like what rads, hoses, front timing cover and pulley assembly's, etc.
For example, just to use myself, I currently have an SB with no power accessories whatsoever, and a rad with driver side hose inlet....what changes with the hemi, or specifically, what changed with your setup (if the hemi wasn't the first motor you built for the car)
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: mshred]
#1205730
03/29/12 03:27 PM
03/29/12 03:27 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828 houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,828
houston texas
|
srt jeep upper hose and a lx car lower hose.
lx car timing cover for me. no a/c pulley from buichillion (sp?) they have the pullies you need.
tti exhaust, motor mounts. using the oil pan from milodon also. made my own pickup
steve
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: mshred]
#1205731
03/29/12 03:30 PM
03/29/12 03:30 PM
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723 Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
|
Quote:
Some real nice builds going!
Curious to know little things like what rads, hoses, front timing cover and pulley assembly's, etc.
For example, just to use myself, I currently have an SB with no power accessories whatsoever, and a rad with driver side hose inlet....what changes with the hemi, or specifically, what changed with your setup (if the hemi wasn't the first motor you built for the car)
The A Body guys have it tough- less fits for us. There are two front timing covers, one for the Trucks and one for the LX's. The Jeep timing cover is the same as the LX with a different style alternator. The alternator for the Jeep *might* offer more clearance. Most A Body guys have to notch their frame rail for the alternator.
A Body guys generally have to run manual steering to get everything to fit. TTI makes headers that fit with the stock K member, and a different set that fits with an AlterKtion. TTI makes mounts as well, and requires them for their headers, I believe. It seems the SRT8 jeep manifolds can be made to fit in an A body with AlterKtion, but there is no way to make them work with a stock K member. However, Jeep 5.7 manifolds do fit with a stock k member and manual steering. Some guys have made LX 5.7 manifolds fit with notching to the passenger side frame, but no A body guy has gotten the LX 6.1 manifolds to fit (to my knowledge).
B Body guys get to run power steering, but I'm not sure what does and does not fit as far as exhaust goes. But, they do have more room. I believe LX 5.7 manifolds fit, but I'm not sure about LX 6.1 manifolds. I'd bet the Jeep 6.1 manifolds will have a shot a fitting, but someone else will have to look into that.
A lot of guys switch the radiator, but you should be fine with what you have. Finding the right hose will be the only hard part. I bought a radiator with inlet and outlet both on the passenger side, since that is where both are on the LX timing cover.
The difficult item is the fuel system- either keep your fuel level over 1/2 a tank, pay up for a dedicated EFI tank, or do what I'm doing and go with a surge tank. I'll have a low pressure carter feeding a surge tank, and a walbro GSL392 pumping from the bottom of the surge tank. That way, if the pickup ever runs dry in the tank, I'll have 30-60 seconds of fuel in the surge tank. My carter outflows the Walbro, so it will catch up quickly. If you don't know much about a surge tank, I'll post something up later.
Some companies suggest the truck front cover for A body guys. I don't like the alternator and AC right up front and center, so I decided to make the LX one work. However, there have been some guys modify the Truck front cover to move those two items out and run a LX intake with spacers between the intake and heads.
I'll let Steve and Alex update ya'll on the strength of the internal components in the engine, options for computers, etc.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar -'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: mshred]
#1205732
03/29/12 03:35 PM
03/29/12 03:35 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645 Houston, Tx
AlexP
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
|
Quote:
Quote:
As said, it's not particularly difficult anymore.
Nearly stock 5.7 installed in '69 Charger originally equipped with broken 440/727. For cruisin' not racin', fairly low buck.
It's not mine, it's my buddys. I rebuilt the lower end of the used 5.7, he put the heads and intake on. It's just a stock rebuild other than it has a used steel 6.1 crank that I just threw in there without thinking about potential balance issues (haven't had any issues with it).
-a small block 727 with manual valve body and converter -Mopar Performance flexplate -TTI headers and conversion mounts, homemade exhaust -Mopar Performance oil pan (now ns1, use Milodon instead) -The same radiator as before with custom radiator hoses (went into the back room at the parts store, bought about 30 radiator hoses, used two that worked, returned the rest) -A/C delete with a belt re-route -a low buck power steering cooler consisting of a really long pressure line with lots of bends in it -A generic aftermarket electric fan -Alternator B+ wire re-routed directly to B+ -Mopar Performance crate computer, intake manifold and throttle body (FI) (he found a killer deal on ebay) -stock rails and injectors from a 2004 pickup truck -electric fuel pump and filter
He could have saved money with hooker headers instead of tti (I don't know why hooker does not promote them better), or might have found exhaust manifolds that would work. He could have carb'd it for less and used an msd for ignition also.
But that's a low buck deal. Really the sky's the limit if you want to throw more cash at it.
How much power would you guess he ended up with?
We did a 68 Charger with the following:
5.7 stock block .030 Milled 5.7 heads with PAC 1218 springs FRI 215/219 Camshaft .573 lift. Mopar Carbed Intake / AED 750 carb TTI headers Keisler 5 speed MSD 6 Hemi
It put out 290rwhp with 10 degrees timing and no tuning on the carb.
My personal heads are full ported with a stock eagle 2 piece valve and PAC 1220 springs. Should be good for about 1.7HP/CI on the right motor. These are a closed chamber head.
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1205733
03/29/12 03:35 PM
03/29/12 03:35 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433 Toronto
mshred
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
|
Quote:
Quote:
Some real nice builds going!
Curious to know little things like what rads, hoses, front timing cover and pulley assembly's, etc.
For example, just to use myself, I currently have an SB with no power accessories whatsoever, and a rad with driver side hose inlet....what changes with the hemi, or specifically, what changed with your setup (if the hemi wasn't the first motor you built for the car)
The A Body guys have it tough- less fits for us. There are two front timing covers, one for the Trucks and one for the LX's. The Jeep timing cover is the same as the LX with a different style alternator. The alternator for the Jeep *might* offer more clearance. Most A Body guys have to notch their frame rail for the alternator.
A Body guys generally have to run manual steering to get everything to fit. TTI makes headers that fit with the stock K member, and a different set that fits with an AlterKtion. TTI makes mounts as well, and requires them for their headers, I believe. It seems the SRT8 jeep manifolds can be made to fit in an A body with AlterKtion, but there is no way to make them work with a stock K member. However, Jeep 5.7 manifolds do fit with a stock k member and manual steering. Some guys have made LX 5.7 manifolds fit with notching to the passenger side frame, but no A body guy has gotten the LX 6.1 manifolds to fit (to my knowledge).
B Body guys get to run power steering, but I'm not sure what does and does not fit as far as exhaust goes. But, they do have more room. I believe LX 5.7 manifolds fit, but I'm not sure about LX 6.1 manifolds. I'd bet the Jeep 6.1 manifolds will have a shot a fitting, but someone else will have to look into that.
A lot of guys switch the radiator, but you should be fine with what you have. Finding the right hose will be the only hard part. I bought a radiator with inlet and outlet both on the passenger side, since that is where both are on the LX timing cover.
The difficult item is the fuel system- either keep your fuel level over 1/2 a tank, pay up for a dedicated EFI tank, or do what I'm doing and go with a surge tank. I'll have a low pressure carter feeding a surge tank, and a walbro GSL392 pumping from the bottom of the surge tank. That way, if the pickup ever runs dry in the tank, I'll have 30-60 seconds of fuel in the surge tank. My carter outflows the Walbro, so it will catch up quickly. If you don't know much about a surge tank, I'll post something up later.
Some companies suggest the truck front cover for A body guys. I don't like the alternator and AC right up front and center, so I decided to make the LX one work. However, there have been some guys modify the Truck front cover to move those two items out and run a LX intake with spacers between the intake and heads.
I'll let Steve and Alex update ya'll on the strength of the internal components in the engine, options for computers, etc.
This is some great info! thank you for sharing!
It looks like either timing cover will work in the a-bodies without power steering, just depends what you want to work with. That is good to know. I wouldn't want to add power steering so that is no issue for me, but again good info for others who may be reading this.
If I ever ran one it would definitely be a carb just because I prefer it over any sort of EFI setup, not to mention it would save costs. Im assuming the carb setup would eliminate the need for the surge tank? Again though that would be great info to post up for others looking at this since I figured having a thread with some info for those thinking about it or wanting to tackle the swap would be good
Thanks for sharing what you know so far, definitely appreciated Yours sounds like a fun ride!
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: AlexP]
#1205734
03/29/12 05:43 PM
03/29/12 05:43 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025
S.E. Michigan
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As said, it's not particularly difficult anymore.
Nearly stock 5.7 installed in '69 Charger originally equipped with broken 440/727. For cruisin' not racin', fairly low buck.
It's not mine, it's my buddys. I rebuilt the lower end of the used 5.7, he put the heads and intake on. It's just a stock rebuild other than it has a used steel 6.1 crank that I just threw in there without thinking about potential balance issues (haven't had any issues with it).
-a small block 727 with manual valve body and converter -Mopar Performance flexplate -TTI headers and conversion mounts, homemade exhaust -Mopar Performance oil pan (now ns1, use Milodon instead) -The same radiator as before with custom radiator hoses (went into the back room at the parts store, bought about 30 radiator hoses, used two that worked, returned the rest) -A/C delete with a belt re-route -a low buck power steering cooler consisting of a really long pressure line with lots of bends in it -A generic aftermarket electric fan -Alternator B+ wire re-routed directly to B+ -Mopar Performance crate computer, intake manifold and throttle body (FI) (he found a killer deal on ebay) -stock rails and injectors from a 2004 pickup truck -electric fuel pump and filter
He could have saved money with hooker headers instead of tti (I don't know why hooker does not promote them better), or might have found exhaust manifolds that would work. He could have carb'd it for less and used an msd for ignition also.
But that's a low buck deal. Really the sky's the limit if you want to throw more cash at it.
How much power would you guess he ended up with?
We did a 68 Charger with the following:
5.7 stock block .030 Milled 5.7 heads with PAC 1218 springs FRI 215/219 Camshaft .573 lift. Mopar Carbed Intake / AED 750 carb TTI headers Keisler 5 speed MSD 6 Hemi
It put out 290rwhp with 10 degrees timing and no tuning on the carb.
My personal heads are full ported with a stock eagle 2 piece valve and PAC 1220 springs. Should be good for about 1.7HP/CI on the right motor. These are a closed chamber head.
That is in roughly the same ballpark as what I would guess Evan ended up with. Maybe 380 flywheel on a good day? The long tube headers have got to help a bunch...the stock exhaust manifolds are really restrictive on 5.7s. A guy obviously won't set the world on fire with a build like that but it's a real good cruiser.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#1205738
03/29/12 11:50 PM
03/29/12 11:50 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776 Ontario Canada
MattW
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
|
Quote:
Does anybody have an idea what a low milage, complete 6.1 might cost? Thanks
New P5155437 intake to pan 6.1 less than 6000.00
|
|
|
Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread
[Re: 340RICK]
#1205740
03/30/12 10:01 AM
03/30/12 10:01 AM
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,130 Dayton, Ohio
wldtm
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,130
Dayton, Ohio
|
I have two going.
1) 69 barracuda fastback tko600 keisler kit 3.91 gears 04 ram 5.7 hemi with 6.1 cam and springs newer valve covers no power steering tti mounts and headers & full 3 inch exhaust not installed, novi 1200 blower with about 8-10 psi
this car is a driver. it got 24 mpg going 70 mph to the All Hemi Reunion. The blower was a decent deal and when it blows up, it give me a reason to build a forged/stroker.
the next is in the gathering parts stage. 6.1 block 6.1 heads a crate motor/stock drag pack camshaft (i forget the specs but its in the mopar catalog. drag pack intake stock drag pack rods (scat iirc) stock 6.1 crank turned down to 2.100 chevy rods
Still looking for oil pan and a set of stock bore drag pack diamond pistons.
the second engine will pretty much be a clone of a drag pack 6.1 engine. i know what they make close to stock, and i have been able to score some deals on parts.
Interested in having you car wired? Drag car, street car, EFI swap?
PM for details
|
|
|
|
|