Moparts

New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread

Posted By: mshred

New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 05:54 PM

Hey guys,

I know there are various threads on here that cover new hemi builds of various varieties, parts interchangeability, etc. However, I like many others have thought about performing the swap into their cars, yet find it hard to lay out a list of I will need and how much everything would roughly cost. I think that is part of why so many guys stay away from the swap, since they are not sure what is involved.

Anyways, I was thinking that maybe this thread could be a place where people who have retrofitted these engines into the older body styles can post up their builds (i.e. what parts were used in their actual engine build, rough cost if comfortable sharing) as well as what parts were NEEDED to get the engine to work in your car (i.e. special headers, mounts, etc. and what the cost was). I know it might be a lot of info to share, and some may not be willing, but I think it could be a great way to share the potential these motors have and just what is needed to get them running in an older car

If anyone would care to share, im sure I and many others would greatly appreciate it
Posted By: AlexP

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 06:16 PM

They really are 99% bolt in now.

I'm using off the shelf headers, oilpan and mounts. The rest of the hardware is pretty straight forward. Just using an old lakewood SB bell housing for the trans with a Mopar 10.5" flywheel for the Hemi.

My swap is easier than most because I built the car to take EFI and big power years ago. I've already got a 1/2 Feed and return fuel system in stainless hardline and a Painless wiring harness for easy hook up.

My motorbuild will be as follows:





6.1 Based motor (I've already got a .030 6.1 block and several 6.1 cranks)

Either a forged 6.1 or a forged 7.0. If I go 6.1 I'll run it with my 64cc eagles for 10:1 and then swap to a stock big chamber apache for 9:1 later and throw a 3.6LC Kenne Bell on. Instant 800+rwhp on pump fuel.

5.7 Eagle heads ported by GTP here in Houston (360 cfm at .500)

Ported 6.1 intake by GTP.

Cam By Steve Frank

FAST XFI with 92mm TB a walboro pump/surge tank

Mopar SRT4 stage 1 or 2 injectors

TTI 1 7/8 headers back to a 2.5" H-pipe Exhaust (Small, I know)

23 spline 833 with a Centerforce DF and a 3.54 Dana 60. No plans for an OD unit or anything special.

I'd be shooting for at least 500rwhp from an N/A 6.1 (374) or about 600rwhp from a 426 on pump fuel.
Posted By: mshred

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 06:44 PM

Quote:

They really are 99% bolt in now.

I'm using off the shelf headers, oilpan and mounts. The rest of the hardware is pretty straight forward. Just using an old lakewood SB bell housing for the trans with a Mopar 10.5" flywheel for the Hemi.

My swap is easier than most because I built the car to take EFI and big power years ago. I've already got a 1/2 Feed and return fuel system in stainless hardline and a Painless wiring harness for easy hook up.

My motorbuild will be as follows:





6.1 Based motor (I've already got a .030 6.1 block and several 6.1 cranks)

Either a forged 6.1 or a forged 7.0. If I go 6.1 I'll run it with my 64cc eagles for 10:1 and then swap to a stock big chamber apache for 9:1 later and throw a 3.6LC Kenne Bell on. Instant 800+rwhp on pump fuel.

5.7 Eagle heads ported by GTP here in Houston (360 cfm at .500)

Ported 6.1 intake by GTP.

Cam By Steve Frank

FAST XFI with 92mm TB a walboro pump/surge tank

Mopar SRT4 stage 1 or 2 injectors

TTI 1 7/8 headers back to a 2.5" H-pipe Exhaust (Small, I know)

23 spline 833 with a Centerforce DF and a 3.54 Dana 60. No plans for an OD unit or anything special.

I'd be shooting for at least 500rwhp from an N/A 6.1 (374) or about 600rwhp from a 426 on pump fuel.



Wow, that sounds like an awesome combo!

If you don't mind sharing, how much do you think you have roughly into the entire build/swap?

Also, are those heads stock other than the porting?
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 06:46 PM

As said, it's not particularly difficult anymore.

Nearly stock 5.7 installed in '69 Charger originally equipped with broken 440/727. For cruisin' not racin', fairly low buck.

It's not mine, it's my buddys. I rebuilt the lower end of the used 5.7, he put the heads and intake on. It's just a stock rebuild other than it has a used steel 6.1 crank that I just threw in there without thinking about potential balance issues (haven't had any issues with it).

-a small block 727 with manual valve body and converter
-Mopar Performance flexplate
-TTI headers and conversion mounts, homemade exhaust
-Mopar Performance oil pan (now ns1, use Milodon instead)
-The same radiator as before with custom radiator hoses (went into the back room at the parts store, bought about 30 radiator hoses, used two that worked, returned the rest)
-A/C delete with a belt re-route
-a low buck power steering cooler consisting of a really long pressure line with lots of bends in it
-A generic aftermarket electric fan
-Alternator B+ wire re-routed directly to B+
-Mopar Performance crate computer, intake manifold and throttle body (FI) (he found a killer deal on ebay)
-stock rails and injectors from a 2004 pickup truck
-electric fuel pump and filter

He could have saved money with hooker headers instead of tti (I don't know why hooker does not promote them better), or might have found exhaust manifolds that would work.
He could have carb'd it for less and used an msd for ignition also.

But that's a low buck deal.
Really the sky's the limit if you want to throw more cash at it.
Posted By: mshred

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 06:57 PM

Quote:

As said, it's not particularly difficult anymore.

Nearly stock 5.7 installed in '69 Charger originally equipped with broken 440/727. For cruisin' not racin', fairly low buck.

It's not mine, it's my buddys. I rebuilt the lower end of the used 5.7, he put the heads and intake on. It's just a stock rebuild other than it has a used steel 6.1 crank that I just threw in there without thinking about potential balance issues (haven't had any issues with it).

-a small block 727 with manual valve body and converter
-Mopar Performance flexplate
-TTI headers and conversion mounts, homemade exhaust
-Mopar Performance oil pan (now ns1, use Milodon instead)
-The same radiator as before with custom radiator hoses (went into the back room at the parts store, bought about 30 radiator hoses, used two that worked, returned the rest)
-A/C delete with a belt re-route
-a low buck power steering cooler consisting of a really long pressure line with lots of bends in it
-A generic aftermarket electric fan
-Alternator B+ wire re-routed directly to B+
-Mopar Performance crate computer, intake manifold and throttle body (FI) (he found a killer deal on ebay)
-stock rails and injectors from a 2004 pickup truck
-electric fuel pump and filter

He could have saved money with hooker headers instead of tti (I don't know why hooker does not promote them better), or might have found exhaust manifolds that would work.
He could have carb'd it for less and used an msd for ignition also.

But that's a low buck deal.
Really the sky's the limit if you want to throw more cash at it.



How much power would you guess he ended up with?
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 07:02 PM

My build is ready to go in, it just needs me to stop working long enough to put it in.

348 ci 3G Hemi:
5.7 block, .020 over
6.1 forged crank
K1 rods
Wiseco 11:1 pistons (actually 11.8:1 with my shaved heads)
Extreme/Stage 3 Frank Racing 5.7 heads (360 cfm intake)
GTP Ported 6.1 intake
223/227 @ .050, 113+4

TKO600 w/ Hydraulic clutch

Full Floater ford 9" (haven't bought yet)

I will be road racing this car.

I'll update my site when I finally get around to working on it again.
www.3gduster.com
Posted By: gremlinsteve

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 07:08 PM

and my build.

426 based 6.1 stroker. 8.8:1 compression. 383 cfm stock casting head, 6.1 based btw.
cam by me. arp studded with a srt jeep bracket assy bolted on allowing the use of a vortech t - trim head unit. shooting for about 12-15 psi and 650-750 rwhp

bolted to a a833 4 speed or a tremec. if i can gather the parts for the tremec soon.


steve
Posted By: mshred

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 07:12 PM

Some real nice builds going!

Curious to know little things like what rads, hoses, front timing cover and pulley assembly's, etc.

For example, just to use myself, I currently have an SB with no power accessories whatsoever, and a rad with driver side hose inlet....what changes with the hemi, or specifically, what changed with your setup (if the hemi wasn't the first motor you built for the car)
Posted By: gremlinsteve

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 07:27 PM

srt jeep upper hose and a lx car lower hose.

lx car timing cover for me. no a/c pulley from buichillion (sp?)
they have the pullies you need.

tti exhaust, motor mounts.
using the oil pan from milodon also. made my own pickup

steve
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 07:30 PM

Quote:

Some real nice builds going!

Curious to know little things like what rads, hoses, front timing cover and pulley assembly's, etc.

For example, just to use myself, I currently have an SB with no power accessories whatsoever, and a rad with driver side hose inlet....what changes with the hemi, or specifically, what changed with your setup (if the hemi wasn't the first motor you built for the car)



The A Body guys have it tough- less fits for us. There are two front timing covers, one for the Trucks and one for the LX's. The Jeep timing cover is the same as the LX with a different style alternator. The alternator for the Jeep *might* offer more clearance. Most A Body guys have to notch their frame rail for the alternator.

A Body guys generally have to run manual steering to get everything to fit. TTI makes headers that fit with the stock K member, and a different set that fits with an AlterKtion. TTI makes mounts as well, and requires them for their headers, I believe. It seems the SRT8 jeep manifolds can be made to fit in an A body with AlterKtion, but there is no way to make them work with a stock K member. However, Jeep 5.7 manifolds do fit with a stock k member and manual steering. Some guys have made LX 5.7 manifolds fit with notching to the passenger side frame, but no A body guy has gotten the LX 6.1 manifolds to fit (to my knowledge).

B Body guys get to run power steering, but I'm not sure what does and does not fit as far as exhaust goes. But, they do have more room. I believe LX 5.7 manifolds fit, but I'm not sure about LX 6.1 manifolds. I'd bet the Jeep 6.1 manifolds will have a shot a fitting, but someone else will have to look into that.

A lot of guys switch the radiator, but you should be fine with what you have. Finding the right hose will be the only hard part. I bought a radiator with inlet and outlet both on the passenger side, since that is where both are on the LX timing cover.

The difficult item is the fuel system- either keep your fuel level over 1/2 a tank, pay up for a dedicated EFI tank, or do what I'm doing and go with a surge tank. I'll have a low pressure carter feeding a surge tank, and a walbro GSL392 pumping from the bottom of the surge tank. That way, if the pickup ever runs dry in the tank, I'll have 30-60 seconds of fuel in the surge tank. My carter outflows the Walbro, so it will catch up quickly. If you don't know much about a surge tank, I'll post something up later.

Some companies suggest the truck front cover for A body guys. I don't like the alternator and AC right up front and center, so I decided to make the LX one work. However, there have been some guys modify the Truck front cover to move those two items out and run a LX intake with spacers between the intake and heads.

I'll let Steve and Alex update ya'll on the strength of the internal components in the engine, options for computers, etc.
Posted By: AlexP

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 07:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As said, it's not particularly difficult anymore.

Nearly stock 5.7 installed in '69 Charger originally equipped with broken 440/727. For cruisin' not racin', fairly low buck.

It's not mine, it's my buddys. I rebuilt the lower end of the used 5.7, he put the heads and intake on. It's just a stock rebuild other than it has a used steel 6.1 crank that I just threw in there without thinking about potential balance issues (haven't had any issues with it).

-a small block 727 with manual valve body and converter
-Mopar Performance flexplate
-TTI headers and conversion mounts, homemade exhaust
-Mopar Performance oil pan (now ns1, use Milodon instead)
-The same radiator as before with custom radiator hoses (went into the back room at the parts store, bought about 30 radiator hoses, used two that worked, returned the rest)
-A/C delete with a belt re-route
-a low buck power steering cooler consisting of a really long pressure line with lots of bends in it
-A generic aftermarket electric fan
-Alternator B+ wire re-routed directly to B+
-Mopar Performance crate computer, intake manifold and throttle body (FI) (he found a killer deal on ebay)
-stock rails and injectors from a 2004 pickup truck
-electric fuel pump and filter

He could have saved money with hooker headers instead of tti (I don't know why hooker does not promote them better), or might have found exhaust manifolds that would work.
He could have carb'd it for less and used an msd for ignition also.

But that's a low buck deal.
Really the sky's the limit if you want to throw more cash at it.



How much power would you guess he ended up with?



We did a 68 Charger with the following:

5.7 stock block
.030 Milled 5.7 heads with PAC 1218 springs
FRI 215/219 Camshaft .573 lift.
Mopar Carbed Intake / AED 750 carb
TTI headers
Keisler 5 speed
MSD 6 Hemi

It put out 290rwhp with 10 degrees timing and no tuning on the carb.

My personal heads are full ported with a stock eagle 2 piece valve and PAC 1220 springs. Should be good for about 1.7HP/CI on the right motor. These are a closed chamber head.
Posted By: mshred

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 07:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Some real nice builds going!

Curious to know little things like what rads, hoses, front timing cover and pulley assembly's, etc.

For example, just to use myself, I currently have an SB with no power accessories whatsoever, and a rad with driver side hose inlet....what changes with the hemi, or specifically, what changed with your setup (if the hemi wasn't the first motor you built for the car)



The A Body guys have it tough- less fits for us. There are two front timing covers, one for the Trucks and one for the LX's. The Jeep timing cover is the same as the LX with a different style alternator. The alternator for the Jeep *might* offer more clearance. Most A Body guys have to notch their frame rail for the alternator.

A Body guys generally have to run manual steering to get everything to fit. TTI makes headers that fit with the stock K member, and a different set that fits with an AlterKtion. TTI makes mounts as well, and requires them for their headers, I believe. It seems the SRT8 jeep manifolds can be made to fit in an A body with AlterKtion, but there is no way to make them work with a stock K member. However, Jeep 5.7 manifolds do fit with a stock k member and manual steering. Some guys have made LX 5.7 manifolds fit with notching to the passenger side frame, but no A body guy has gotten the LX 6.1 manifolds to fit (to my knowledge).

B Body guys get to run power steering, but I'm not sure what does and does not fit as far as exhaust goes. But, they do have more room. I believe LX 5.7 manifolds fit, but I'm not sure about LX 6.1 manifolds. I'd bet the Jeep 6.1 manifolds will have a shot a fitting, but someone else will have to look into that.

A lot of guys switch the radiator, but you should be fine with what you have. Finding the right hose will be the only hard part. I bought a radiator with inlet and outlet both on the passenger side, since that is where both are on the LX timing cover.

The difficult item is the fuel system- either keep your fuel level over 1/2 a tank, pay up for a dedicated EFI tank, or do what I'm doing and go with a surge tank. I'll have a low pressure carter feeding a surge tank, and a walbro GSL392 pumping from the bottom of the surge tank. That way, if the pickup ever runs dry in the tank, I'll have 30-60 seconds of fuel in the surge tank. My carter outflows the Walbro, so it will catch up quickly. If you don't know much about a surge tank, I'll post something up later.

Some companies suggest the truck front cover for A body guys. I don't like the alternator and AC right up front and center, so I decided to make the LX one work. However, there have been some guys modify the Truck front cover to move those two items out and run a LX intake with spacers between the intake and heads.

I'll let Steve and Alex update ya'll on the strength of the internal components in the engine, options for computers, etc.



This is some great info! thank you for sharing!

It looks like either timing cover will work in the a-bodies without power steering, just depends what you want to work with. That is good to know. I wouldn't want to add power steering so that is no issue for me, but again good info for others who may be reading this.

If I ever ran one it would definitely be a carb just because I prefer it over any sort of EFI setup, not to mention it would save costs. Im assuming the carb setup would eliminate the need for the surge tank? Again though that would be great info to post up for others looking at this since I figured having a thread with some info for those thinking about it or wanting to tackle the swap would be good

Thanks for sharing what you know so far, definitely appreciated Yours sounds like a fun ride!
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 09:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

As said, it's not particularly difficult anymore.

Nearly stock 5.7 installed in '69 Charger originally equipped with broken 440/727. For cruisin' not racin', fairly low buck.

It's not mine, it's my buddys. I rebuilt the lower end of the used 5.7, he put the heads and intake on. It's just a stock rebuild other than it has a used steel 6.1 crank that I just threw in there without thinking about potential balance issues (haven't had any issues with it).

-a small block 727 with manual valve body and converter
-Mopar Performance flexplate
-TTI headers and conversion mounts, homemade exhaust
-Mopar Performance oil pan (now ns1, use Milodon instead)
-The same radiator as before with custom radiator hoses (went into the back room at the parts store, bought about 30 radiator hoses, used two that worked, returned the rest)
-A/C delete with a belt re-route
-a low buck power steering cooler consisting of a really long pressure line with lots of bends in it
-A generic aftermarket electric fan
-Alternator B+ wire re-routed directly to B+
-Mopar Performance crate computer, intake manifold and throttle body (FI) (he found a killer deal on ebay)
-stock rails and injectors from a 2004 pickup truck
-electric fuel pump and filter

He could have saved money with hooker headers instead of tti (I don't know why hooker does not promote them better), or might have found exhaust manifolds that would work.
He could have carb'd it for less and used an msd for ignition also.

But that's a low buck deal.
Really the sky's the limit if you want to throw more cash at it.



How much power would you guess he ended up with?



We did a 68 Charger with the following:

5.7 stock block
.030 Milled 5.7 heads with PAC 1218 springs
FRI 215/219 Camshaft .573 lift.
Mopar Carbed Intake / AED 750 carb
TTI headers
Keisler 5 speed
MSD 6 Hemi

It put out 290rwhp with 10 degrees timing and no tuning on the carb.

My personal heads are full ported with a stock eagle 2 piece valve and PAC 1220 springs. Should be good for about 1.7HP/CI on the right motor. These are a closed chamber head.



That is in roughly the same ballpark as what I would guess Evan ended up with. Maybe 380 flywheel on a good day? The long tube headers have got to help a bunch...the stock exhaust manifolds are really restrictive on 5.7s. A guy obviously won't set the world on fire with a build like that but it's a real good cruiser.
Posted By: AlexP

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 11:39 PM

It's got about 380 in it with a good tune. It will never get that though. He put it together with spare parts.

Here is some of the Hemi stuff I worked with in the past...

Ported 6.1 heads with ceramic chambers, teflon intake ports and color matched ext.



426 into a 6.1 08 SRT8 Challenger. It had 900 miles on it when we tore it apart.



Color Matched and ported 6.1 intake




Various ported Hemi Heads...









Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 11:57 PM

Does anybody have an idea what a low milage, complete 6.1 might cost?
Thanks

Posted By: AlexP

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/29/12 11:59 PM

8324963400

Ask for Craig. He has a long block or shortblock for sale.
Posted By: MattW

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/30/12 03:50 AM

Quote:

Does anybody have an idea what a low milage, complete 6.1 might cost?
Thanks




New P5155437 intake to pan 6.1 less than 6000.00
Posted By: 340RICK

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/30/12 04:33 AM

6.1s are not easy to find and if you do they are pricey from my experience.

I would just do the stroker crank in a 5.7 block for 392"
5.7's are cheap and easy to find.

I bet it would be more than 5K for a nice 6.1
Posted By: wldtm

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/30/12 02:01 PM

I have two going.

1) 69 barracuda fastback
tko600 keisler kit
3.91 gears
04 ram 5.7 hemi with 6.1 cam and springs
newer valve covers
no power steering
tti mounts and headers & full 3 inch exhaust
not installed, novi 1200 blower with about 8-10 psi

this car is a driver. it got 24 mpg going 70 mph to the All Hemi Reunion. The blower was a decent deal and when it blows up, it give me a reason to build a forged/stroker.

the next is in the gathering parts stage.
6.1 block
6.1 heads
a crate motor/stock drag pack camshaft (i forget the specs but its in the mopar catalog.
drag pack intake
stock drag pack rods (scat iirc)
stock 6.1 crank turned down to 2.100 chevy rods

Still looking for oil pan and a set of stock bore drag pack diamond pistons.

the second engine will pretty much be a clone of a drag pack 6.1 engine. i know what they make close to stock, and i have been able to score some deals on parts.
Posted By: AlexP

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 03/30/12 02:16 PM

I would run the 09 Eagle 5.7 in place of a 6.1 head any day of the week on an N/A build.
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 04:17 PM

Looks like a new complete engine management system will be hitting the market for us hemi swap guys. It will include a sealed box built with a MS3 board, and will come with everything needed to get the car running (cable throttle body, complete wiring harness, etc).

Alex and I will be testing some of this for the developer in the next few weeks/months- I'll update with progress as I have it.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 06:41 PM

I'll be stuffing a 5.7 in my '73 Dart, but will not give up powersteering!
For that to happen however I need to switch over to a power rack&pinion system.

A Megasquirt3 will be controlling the motor. Fuel will be LPG fed through vapour injectors.
Not sure yet how the Hemi will interfere with the brakebooster.
Behind the Hemi will be an A518 overdrive transmission.




Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 07:12 PM

I will be attempting factory power steering with headers I weld.

My 73 duster brake booster does not fit. Too large of a diameter. An early a body booster fits, but finding one is the problem.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 07:16 PM

To be honest, your pics on your website made me decide I had to go with a R&P steering.
I could have a go at welding my own headers as I've done that before, but the room available just seems to tight to make a nice radiused bend.

But please, prove that wrong, so I don't have to go through the trouble of installing a R&P aswell for this #$%@!# Hemi...
Posted By: gdemon

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 07:45 PM

You just need a 72 and older booster.

Attached picture 7162220-resizefront.jpg
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 08:08 PM

I do have a similar style booster under the hood of my '73. But it seems my Dart was built with a mix of '72 and '73 parts as it also had 4" boltcircle on the wheels.

Attached picture 7162244-DartEngineBay.jpg
Posted By: gdemon

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 08:24 PM

That booster is bigger in Dia.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 08:34 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought the newer style boosters would be the really large pancake booster I've seen on other cars.
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 08:59 PM

I *think* that's a smaller booster diameter than I have.

As far as the headers go- #3 is the problem. #1 and #5 will be tight, but the turns should be fine. I may just have a poor flowing #3... We'll see.

How tight is too tight of a radius for headers? Does anyone know? For 1.75" tubing.
Posted By: gdemon

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/12/12 09:04 PM

Here is a side pic

Attached picture 7162290-resizeside.jpg
Posted By: Irun5snd8th

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/13/12 05:00 AM

Quote:

I would run the 09 Eagle 5.7 in place of a 6.1 head any day of the week on an N/A build.


What is the reasoning behind this statement? And I am asking just because I dont know the differences between the two.
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/13/12 12:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I would run the 09 Eagle 5.7 in place of a 6.1 head any day of the week on an N/A build.


What is the reasoning behind this statement? And I am asking just because I dont know the differences between the two.

The only reason that i know of is the smaller closed chamber. The 6.1 is a larger chamber however it does flow more and you can make more power with it. However the 6.1 stuff is harder to find and cost more IMO the Apache head is the hot ticket
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/13/12 01:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I would run the 09 Eagle 5.7 in place of a 6.1 head any day of the week on an N/A build.


What is the reasoning behind this statement? And I am asking just because I dont know the differences between the two.

The only reason that i know of is the smaller closed chamber. The 6.1 is a larger chamber however it does flow more and you can make more power with it. However the 6.1 stuff is harder to find and cost more IMO the Apache head is the hot ticket



The 5.7 Eagles flow similar to the 6.1's with a closed chamber.
Posted By: Sherminator

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/15/12 02:13 AM

is 09 the only year for the eagle heads
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/15/12 07:41 AM

I wish someone would design headers or at least attempt to build around a passenger side starter setup to allow us A-body guys to maybe use power steering without springing for an Alter K or equivelant. I also think it might allow a person to use some SRT-8 manifolds from a Jeep or Challenger? Just curious if its been considered and/or already ruled out as effective.
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/15/12 03:23 PM

Quote:

is 09 the only year for the eagle heads



'09 and newer. They are all eagle heads on the 5.7's now.
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/15/12 03:44 PM

Quote:

I wish someone would design headers or at least attempt to build around a passenger side starter setup to allow us A-body guys to maybe use power steering without springing for an Alter K or equivelant. I also think it might allow a person to use some SRT-8 manifolds from a Jeep or Challenger? Just curious if its been considered and/or already ruled out as effective.



You could use the challenger tr6060 with bell housing for a passenger side starter. But, the starter being on the drivers side is not the problem. The head being ~2" from the power steering box is the issue.
See pics here:
http://3gduster.com/Hemi-Exhaust-vs-Power-Steering.html
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/15/12 04:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I wish someone would design headers or at least attempt to build around a passenger side starter setup to allow us A-body guys to maybe use power steering without springing for an Alter K or equivelant. I also think it might allow a person to use some SRT-8 manifolds from a Jeep or Challenger? Just curious if its been considered and/or already ruled out as effective.



You could use the challenger tr6060 with bell housing for a passenger side starter. But, the starter being on the drivers side is not the problem. The head being ~2" from the power steering box is the issue.
See pics here:
http://3gduster.com/Hemi-Exhaust-vs-Power-Steering.html

I have one of those bells, it came with the trans going in my BB Dart. My wife has an 09 Aspen and the manifolds on that look to me like they would give the most clearance out any of them but you must use passenger side starter. 2" is not good! How much less is that then a manual box? Like 2" less?
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/15/12 04:51 PM

I don't have the k member and motor out of the car currently, so measurements may be difficult. 2" less is prob a good estimate. I know the jeep grand Cherokee manifolds fit with the manual steering box, though.
Posted By: Pat7272

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/15/12 06:20 PM

How does the 6.1 intake compare to the carb intakes w/ fuel injection?

Does either setup give up a lot of horsepower to the other?
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/15/12 07:53 PM

The 5.7 car intake has the most torque (08- and prior). The 6.1 intake gives up ~ 5 ftlb to the 5.7 intake down low, but passes it around 5200 and has good power through 6400 or so. The drag pack intake loves RPM and is the best of the carb style intakes, with better high end hp than the two efi intakes. I've heard significantly more than the 6.1 above 7000 on up to 8200. It does however give up significant torque down low to the 6.1 and 5.7.

The LX guys typically do not rev past 6400 with their tuned stock computers, so I'm anxious to see what my ported 6.1 intake will do above 6400.
Posted By: AlexP

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/16/12 10:38 PM

Quote:

The 5.7 car intake has the most torque (08- and prior). The 6.1 intake gives up ~ 5 ftlb to the 5.7 intake down low, but passes it around 5200 and has good power through 6400 or so. The drag pack intake loves RPM and is the best of the carb style intakes, with better high end hp than the two efi intakes. I've heard significantly more than the 6.1 above 7000 on up to 8200. It does however give up significant torque down low to the 6.1 and 5.7.

The LX guys typically do not rev past 6400 with their tuned stock computers, so I'm anxious to see what my ported 6.1 intake will do above 6400.



A great budget option is a 5.7 eagle intake, if you've got a 5.7 early head with big enough ports (or the intake spacers) or a 6.1 head.


An old style 5.7 intake will not be a limiting factor on most of the hemi swaps in an old car. I've had it go 11.50 @ 117 with a 5.7 392 swap back in 08 @4150 raceweight.

It won't look pretty, but it will work.
Posted By: 65signet

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/16/12 10:39 PM

Posted By: tpabayflyer

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/20/12 02:47 AM

09 GC here 5.7...... Stock exhaust is very restrictive..... I put a full srt8 exhaust on and huge difference...... Stock shorty srt8 headers work great....... With a CAI and 93 diablo tune my porky jeep ran 14.18. Not bad for 4400lbs...... Also runs up to 140mph with ease....... Stock eagle heads flow more than 300cfm..... My stock BB edelbrock heads flow 290..... These small block hemis are the shizzle! I plan a 392 rotating assembly and fully ported eagle heads and maybe run the stock 6.4 hemi VVT cam (580/530) lift and right at 11-1 CR should get me around 450 rwhp....... TBF
Posted By: SRT6776

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/21/12 06:41 PM

Check in with www.modernmoparforum.com its the place for those cars / engines. And no rules...
Posted By: hemidup

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/21/12 07:57 PM

Quote:

Hey guys,

I know there are various threads on here that cover new hemi builds of various varieties, parts interchangeability, etc. However, I like many others have thought about performing the swap into their cars, yet find it hard to lay out a list of I will need and how much everything would roughly cost. I think that is part of why so many guys stay away from the swap, since they are not sure what is involved.

Anyways, I was thinking that maybe this thread could be a place where people who have retrofitted these engines into the older body styles can post up their builds (i.e. what parts were used in their actual engine build, rough cost if comfortable sharing) as well as what parts were NEEDED to get the engine to work in your car (i.e. special headers, mounts, etc. and what the cost was). I know it might be a lot of info to share, and some may not be willing, but I think it could be a great way to share the potential these motors have and just what is needed to get them running in an older car

If anyone would care to share, im sure I and many others would greatly appreciate it



Dropped a carbed 5.7 in a 1940 2 door Dodge Coupe.

Attached picture 7173683-40coupe003.jpg
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/24/12 06:17 PM

Oil pan for dirt modified car...

Attached picture 7177721-Hemi013.jpg
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/24/12 06:18 PM

2

Attached picture 7177722-Hemi016.jpg
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/24/12 06:18 PM

3

Attached picture 7177725-Hemi012.jpg
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/24/12 06:21 PM

First design,,,will be making changes I'm sure! Will hold 12 qts. oil.

Attached picture 7177727-Hemi015.jpg
Posted By: JackGTX440

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/26/12 05:37 PM

If I do end up scoring the 6.1 I'm trying to get, the plan is a single turbo, EFI and going in a 67 GTX.

The build plan is FAST XFI 2.0, stainless valves, LSM custom turbo cam, diamond pistons, Manley H-beam rods, and billet main caps. I'll custom build all the hot and cold side. It will probably get a Garrett GT4718 and air to water intercooler. Will probably end up with a power glide too.

I'm shooting for 800 ant the tire on pump.
Posted By: jyrki

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/27/12 07:08 AM

Not really a performance build up except comparing to the stock six banger, but a hemi swap anyway. At first ti seemed like there is no way itr would fit, but in the end the 5.7 out of a 2004 Durango and a 904 trans slipped in there just fine. Had to modify the engine mounts, oil pan/pick up and build new "exhaust manifolds". Solved the fuel iSSue by installing a half gallon auxilar tank in to the engine bay where the original in tank carburator pumps supply the fuel. After that is a MSD EFI pump + rgulator, and the return is to the auxilar tank. Seems to work fine. The wiring and computer came from Bouchillon performance as well as the 2003 "fly by wire gas pedal signal conversion box". Didn't expect much of the combo, but I must say that there truely has happened some progress in the 40 or so years, when the last predecessor was designed! Oh, and almost forgot; the power steering pump puked all the gaskets out of the stock rack & pinion, replaced it with a GM LT1 pump that has lower pressure. Needed new oil lines, drilling the mounting holes bigger and honing the stock pulleys hole bigger to fit the GM pump.
http://kuvablogi.com/blog/24173/7/
Posted By: LA360

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/27/12 11:05 AM

I am trying to find out what are good core engines to buy, what to avoid etc. I make billet parts and would like to start branching out into the late Hemi stuff, so I will be needing an engine to start with. I am looking at bringing over an engine or two come middle of the year. The one thing I am noticing is that one thing that might be worthwhile me looking at is timing covers.
Incidently, The companies I use to Sea freight to Australia are based in LA and Indianapolis, so If I could source an engine when the time comes close to those area it would be great.
Posted By: Lightning

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/30/12 12:29 AM

I've got a bit of a stupid question....has anybody used a motor plate on new Hemi yet? It seems like it would be easier to mount that way. I'm no expert, I just read a lot of things when I get bored.
Posted By: STEFF

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/30/12 01:01 AM

Quote:

I've got a bit of a stupid question....has anybody used a motor plate on new Hemi yet? It seems like it would be easier to mount that way. I'm no expert, I just read a lot of things when I get bored.



Here's Mine....

Posted By: W9 Dart

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/30/12 01:21 AM

I just finished up my build.. take a look. It's a forged 6.1 with ported and nice cam and a Kenne Bell supercharger



Posted By: AlexP

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/30/12 02:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I've got a bit of a stupid question....has anybody used a motor plate on new Hemi yet? It seems like it would be easier to mount that way. I'm no expert, I just read a lot of things when I get bored.



Here's Mine....





Hey steff, whats your motor build going to be this time around?

You basically proved to me that I don't want to use stock rods
Posted By: STEFF

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 04/30/12 11:09 PM

389", more comp, big cam, fixed 6.1 heads.....should be fun!
Posted By: AlexP

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 05/01/12 02:21 PM

Quote:

389", more comp, big cam, fixed 6.1 heads.....should be fun!



Offset ground or scat crank ?
Posted By: STEFF

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 05/01/12 02:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

389", more comp, big cam, fixed 6.1 heads.....should be fun!



Offset ground or scat crank ?



Offset ground 6.1 crank....3.68 stroke x 4.100 bore
Posted By: AlexP

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 05/01/12 04:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

389", more comp, big cam, fixed 6.1 heads.....should be fun!



Offset ground or scat crank ?



Offset ground 6.1 crank....3.68 stroke x 4.100 bore



Nice, is it sleeved? 4.080 has made most people nervous....
Posted By: STEFF

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 05/01/12 05:01 PM

Nope...6.4 block
Posted By: mshred

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 09/15/12 08:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I've got a bit of a stupid question....has anybody used a motor plate on new Hemi yet? It seems like it would be easier to mount that way. I'm no expert, I just read a lot of things when I get bored.



Here's Mine....





Going to ressurect this since I have been thinking about this again...Steff, excuse my ignorance even looking at your pic, but what accessories are you running, if at all? I like the idea of a motorplate if they are being made instead of mounts, but am curious about removing accessories as well like A/C and power steering, neither of which I want
Posted By: PlumCrazyChris

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 05/29/13 07:34 PM

I'm putting a truck 3g in my Challenger. Its in and about ready to start, but I'm having header clearance issues. I've got TTI headers and Polylock mounts. My headers are pointing downwards too much under the car significantly reducing my clearance.

I'm also running a A500 trans, which is what I'm thinking is causing the motor to be tilted back too far pointing the headers downward.

I've had to do a little pounding to get clearance in a couple of spots, but it tucks up in the tunnel pretty good and doesn't appear to hang low at all. I'm about ready to drop the trans again and pound the crap out of the tunnel to get it up in there more. But before I go to all that trouble, I wanted to know if you guys are having the same issue with headers pointing downward at the outlet?

I think the 5.7 just looks like its leaning back toward the firewall more than stock smallblock/bigblocks in general, from all the pics I've seen.

Anyone have a similar header clearance problem?
Posted By: STEFF

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 05/29/13 07:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I've got a bit of a stupid question....has anybody used a motor plate on new Hemi yet? It seems like it would be easier to mount that way. I'm no expert, I just read a lot of things when I get bored.



Here's Mine....





Going to ressurect this since I have been thinking about this again...Steff, excuse my ignorance even looking at your pic, but what accessories are you running, if at all? I like the idea of a motorplate if they are being made instead of mounts, but am curious about removing accessories as well like A/C and power steering, neither of which I want



Running an Alternator. Kinda' buried under the braided lines in the pic. It's on the pass. side, near k-frame.

I made the motor plate, using a jig saw and drill press. Not hard to do. I did use aluminum tooling plate though, which is finished on both sides. Saved me from having to mill the plate flat for sealing surfaces. I don't have a mill yet.

New motor also has my oil pump mounted to it. I'll post a pic of the new plate and motor later.
Posted By: PlumCrazyChris

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 06/24/13 08:35 PM

Bump, anyone having header clearance problems with their 3G Hemi swap?


Quote:

I'm putting a truck 3g in my Challenger. Its in and about ready to start, but I'm having header clearance issues. I've got TTI headers and Polylock mounts. My headers are pointing downwards too much under the car significantly reducing my clearance.

I'm also running a A500 trans, which is what I'm thinking is causing the motor to be tilted back too far pointing the headers downward.

I've had to do a little pounding to get clearance in a couple of spots, but it tucks up in the tunnel pretty good and doesn't appear to hang low at all. I'm about ready to drop the trans again and pound the crap out of the tunnel to get it up in there more. But before I go to all that trouble, I wanted to know if you guys are having the same issue with headers pointing downward at the outlet?

I think the 5.7 just looks like its leaning back toward the firewall more than stock smallblock/bigblocks in general, from all the pics I've seen.

Anyone have a similar header clearance problem?

Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 06/24/13 10:53 PM

Quote:

Bump, anyone having header clearance problems with their 3G Hemi swap?


Quote:

I'm putting a truck 3g in my Challenger. Its in and about ready to start, but I'm having header clearance issues. I've got TTI headers and Polylock mounts. My headers are pointing downwards too much under the car significantly reducing my clearance.

I'm also running a A500 trans, which is what I'm thinking is causing the motor to be tilted back too far pointing the headers downward.

I've had to do a little pounding to get clearance in a couple of spots, but it tucks up in the tunnel pretty good and doesn't appear to hang low at all. I'm about ready to drop the trans again and pound the crap out of the tunnel to get it up in there more. But before I go to all that trouble, I wanted to know if you guys are having the same issue with headers pointing downward at the outlet?

I think the 5.7 just looks like its leaning back toward the firewall more than stock smallblock/bigblocks in general, from all the pics I've seen.

Anyone have a similar header clearance problem?





I can't comment on header clearance (as I welded my own), but I can say my motor is tilted back more than I'd like. I've also got a tko600 Keisler kit, though.

What do your angles look like? I understand 1.0-1.5* is ideal, .5* is min, 2.0* is max for racing according to Mark Williams, and 3.0* is max according to Spicer. I'm thinking my front u joint is around 2.5* operating angle.
Posted By: Moparmal

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 06/27/13 12:45 PM

This is mine - 6.1 crate into an Aussie A body - carb induction.

MSD Harness 88864 $185
MSD 6013 spark controller $475
Mounts - TTI - MM57A, $140 (These are rubbish btw and require significant re-working)
MP flex plate adapter - P5153753 $85
Jeep Alternator,AL6475X, Alternator 4896805AC or Denso 11113 $225 (Rebuilt)
Sump - MIL31000, $205.00
Pick up - MIL18331 $75.95
Dipstick and Tube - MIL 22064 $58.95
Oil plate Adapter - MIL 21566 $34.95
Oil Pan bolts - MIL-85025 $11.95
Oil Pick up stud - 6506333-AA $2.50
Oil Stud Nut - # 6502756 $1.90
Bearing Cap Bolt - 06506272AA $3.70
Oil filter block off TTI - PN 0200-FBP $68.00
Intake gasket $49.00
Indy Modman Manifold $490
Electric Fans $300
Champion Radiator - $240
St & Perf P/Steer delete pulley- $188
Street and performance Headers $673
Plugs LZTR5AIX-13 $101
Belt tensioner 4861277AD - $30
Dayco Tensioner Bolt- $7.95
Dayco tensioner - $24.00
Idler Pulley - $27
Idler pulley bolt - $2
Gates Hoses 25526 (13) 25527 (15) - $30
Lokar Trans dipstick - $55
Lokar Acc cable - $64
PSI Valve springs - $300 (Check the LX forums why these need changing)

Posted By: PlumCrazyChris

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 06/27/13 11:01 PM

I'll measure the angle on the trans output shaft, it looks ok, but the headers are really low for TTIs, I'm shocked and almost think I have a bad set.

Here's a shot of my motor, its kind of an old pic, but it doesn't look any more tilted then the other ones I've seen. I'll have to get a pic of the headers and put them on here for comparison.

What do you think?

Attached picture 7757329-Motorsmall.jpg
Posted By: Moparmal

Re: New Hemi Builds and Swap Thread - 06/28/13 10:17 AM

The TTI adapter mounts with A body biscuit mounts raise the front of the motor a significant amount.

If the bell housing flange is pushed up against the firewall, you have this problem.

We took 12mm out of the passenger side adapter - this both dropped and centered the motor.

I know for a fact others have had the same issue in US Mopars.
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