SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? UPDATE - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Moparts Question and Answer SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? UPDATE

Print Thread

Page 1 of 2

1

2

SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? UPDATE #1203414 03/25/12 09:05 PM 03/25/12 09:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here
Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA	Okay guys, I purchased my bee with super stock springs already installed. I pulled them out to install the poly bushings and very cool heavy duty rear shackles from Just Suspension. The shackles are the identical dimension as the OEM ones. Two things are strange about the rear end. The strange thing is that I didn't notice it till I got it all back together. First, the Pinion angle of the pig is really high. With the car on jack stands and no wheels on, it's at 14 degrees up. I am getting this measurement by putting a dial indicator on the underside of the pig just behind the u joint. Second, with everything bolted in firm but not tight, the lower end of the rear shackles are aiming toward the front of the car. I do believe that the bolts in the front spring eyelets were in the LOWER spring bracket adapter holes and now they're in the top, which I can change, but holy cow! everything is looking tipped back and the pins on the shock mount plates are tipped down toward the rear so they don't run parallel to the lower mounting holes on the shocks... I did this installation start to finish on my barracuda before I sold it and it all worked out great. What's wrong here? Could I have the wrong bracket adapters? Is there away to correct the pinion angle on the rear? Last edited by Big Bad Bee; 03/30/12 04:58 PM. I’m listening.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1203415 03/25/12 09:28 PM 03/25/12 09:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,117 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,117 Oregon	Put the jack stands under the axle so the weight of the car is on the springs. Then re-take those pictures.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1203416 03/25/12 09:30 PM 03/25/12 09:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,472 Overland Park, KS. J Joshs68 pro stock
Joshs68 pro stock J Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,472 Overland Park, KS.	I dont have all your answers but will tell you I had similar pinion angle with SS springs in the upper hole. a set of shims between the springs and rear end fixed that up. In the lower hole it was much better but the car sat pretty high. I did just notice that your suspension is at full droop. It needs to be set up with the weight of the car on it. Last edited by Joshs68; 03/25/12 09:32 PM.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: AndyF] #1203417 03/25/12 09:31 PM 03/25/12 09:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here
Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA	Andy, What do you think about those rear shackles? I’m listening.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Joshs68] #1203418 03/25/12 09:43 PM 03/25/12 09:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here
Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA	Quote: I dont have all your answers but will tell you I had similar pinion angle with SS springs in the upper hole. a set of shims between the springs and rear end fixed that up. In the lower hole it was much better but the car sat pretty high. I did just notice that your suspension is at full droop. It needs to be set up with the weight of the car on it. Josh did your shackles angle like mine? Where did you get the shims? Were they like this? I'll get back to the car, put the front bolts in the lower holes and get it on its wheels and do another measure. I’m listening.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1203419 03/25/12 11:08 PM 03/25/12 11:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	WAG it almost looks like the wrong length (A body?) springs were used. When sorted out you would want the bottom of the rear shackles pointing down/slightly to the rear as opposed to way forward as they are now so when the spring compresses it does not raise the vehicle when the shackle goes thru it's arc rearward. EDIT any possibility the perches were welded on at the wrong angle? With it jacked till the perches are level what is the pinion face angle. I Only remem the A body spec which is 5 deg "up" iirc. I have A body SS 003 SS springs on both sides in a 65 dart & the angle ain't outrageous tho I have not measured it Last edited by RapidRobert; 03/25/12 11:48 PM. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1203420 03/26/12 12:33 AM 03/26/12 12:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,117 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,117 Oregon	Quote: Andy, What do you think about those rear shackles? What does it look like when the springs are supporting the car? Having the springs hanging like that doesn't mean anything. Lower the car down on the axle and take another set of pictures then we can see if you have a problem or not.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: AndyF] #1203421 03/26/12 11:18 AM 03/26/12 11:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,395 Pikes Peak Country T TC@HP2 master
TC@HP2 master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,395 Pikes Peak Country	Because of the high camber and stiff segments of the SS spring packs, it does occasionally happen where they have a shorter effective length until weight is put on them. Combined with the high pressure KYBs you have under there, and the whole enchilada has conspired to shove the springs down and pull the shackle forward. Take the shocks off, put the tires on, use a pry bar to flip the shackles backwards, slowly lower the rear down until you get the tires back on the ground. Then put your shocks back on, bounce it a couple of times, and check your angles.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: TC@HP2] #1203422 03/26/12 12:56 PM 03/26/12 12:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: Because of the high camber and stiff segments of the SS spring packs, it does occasionally happen where they have a shorter effective length until weight is put on them. Combined with the high pressure KYBs you have under there, and the whole enchilada has conspired to shove the springs down and pull the shackle forward. Take the shocks off, put the tires on, use a pry bar to flip the shackles backwards, slowly lower the rear down until you get the tires back on the ground. Then put your shocks back on, bounce it a couple of times, and check your angles. We may have a winna. I Thought we were missing something simple that the pinion angle was that high live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: AndyF] #1203423 03/26/12 01:06 PM 03/26/12 01:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 top fuel
bobs66440 top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	Quote: Quote: Andy, What do you think about those rear shackles? What does it look like when the springs are supporting the car? Having the springs hanging like that doesn't mean anything. Lower the car down on the axle and take another set of pictures then we can see if you have a problem or not. Yes, you can't tell anything unless the weight is on both front and rear suspension the same as if were on the tires on the ground.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: bobs66440] #1203424 03/26/12 01:59 PM 03/26/12 01:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada D DPelletier I Live Here
DPelletier I Live Here D Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada	I agree with the others that you need to have the weight of the car on the springs, but I had similar issues with the length of the springs.....so much so that I needed to use a floor jack under the diff to lengthen the spring out enough to even get a bolt in the shackle. ....They were so far off, I went back to the HD springs and the SS springs decorate my storage room. Dave 1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: DPelletier] #1203425 03/26/12 06:05 PM 03/26/12 06:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,472 Overland Park, KS. J Joshs68 pro stock
Joshs68 pro stock J Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,472 Overland Park, KS.	Yes those are what I used, got them at a local 4x4 shop. When you get weight on the springs then you can measure again and help choose which degree shim you may need. They are cheap and you may need to try more than one set as they are sold in fixed degree increments. But not made to stack together

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Joshs68] #1203426 03/26/12 09:09 PM 03/26/12 09:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here
Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA	Thanks everyone! I LOVE MOPARTS!!! After Andy said what he did I thought about it. In full droop, the springs are "Smiling" taller. taller means less distance between front and rear shackles. Duh.. Got it! You're all pretty much in agreement, although leave it to Dave P. to have the same year and model car and have unworkable problems! I'm trying to get in tonight and loosen things up enough to swivel the rear shackles as I sit the car down, snug it up and take measurements and photos. Stay tuned and THANKS! I’m listening.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1203427 03/30/12 05:13 PM 03/30/12 05:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here
Big Bad Bee OP I Live Here Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 10,948 Spokane Valley, WA	Well, last night Prostock1320 and I got after the Bee. I loosened the shackles, put on the rear tires, pulled the jack stands and set her down. the shackles swung back as easy as you please with the lower bolts 5 degrees to the rear. Big smiles. I put the dial indicator on the pig. Nose was now at 10 degrees upward. So we went from 14 to 10. Curiosity got the best of us and we decided to put the front spring bolts in the lower hole in the front SS spring brackets. We put the car back up on stands and raised the rear end with the floor jack, pulled wheels and the front SS spring bracket to frame bolts and dropped her down. We had to do this because I had the nuts facing outward and the frame rails were blocking the spring bolts... Duh... Took the bolts out of the springs and moved the springs to the lower holes on the brackets and with a bit of arm wrestling, got everything bolted back up. The rear shackles remained at 5 degrees to the rear and now the pumpkin sits at 7 degrees nose upward. So, the question is, what now? What's the ideal degree for the nose of that diff? Moving the springs to the lower bolt hole did raise the rear a tad bit and I'd like it lower. The shock plate bolts are still pointing slightly downward but I can mount the shocks okay. Do I shim the spring perches? How much? or leave it as is? Lindy I’m listening.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1203428 03/30/12 05:33 PM 03/30/12 05:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada D DPelletier I Live Here
DPelletier I Live Here D Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada	Quote: You're all pretty much in agreement, although leave it to Dave P. to have the same year and model car and have unworkable problems! Yeah, I'm pretty sure my car is possessed and I'm jinxed! Dave 1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1203429 03/30/12 05:53 PM 03/30/12 05:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,136 A Banana Republic near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,136 A Banana Republic near you.	You definitely need to adjust the rear so the pinion is nose down. If you want it to sit lower then put them back in the upper holes and get angle shims for under the perches, but to they make shims big enough to go negative ? you may have to cut the perches off and have them rewelded on ??? What is making you go with SS springs ?

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: JohnRR] #1203430 03/30/12 07:15 PM 03/30/12 07:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada D DPelletier I Live Here
DPelletier I Live Here D Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada	Quote: you may have to cut the perches off and have them rewelded on ??? That's what I was thinking too. Not sure why he has the problem in the first place though; lots of people run SS springs with factory rears without any problems (that's what I'm TOLD anyway! ) Dave 1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: DPelletier] #1203431 03/30/12 08:42 PM 03/30/12 08:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa 340SHORTY Truck Nut
340SHORTY Truck Nut Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa	www.speedwaymotors.com has the shims in 2 and 4 degrees. I believe you are going to need more than 4 degrees to correct your problem. You dont stack the shims either. I believe you are going to have to cut the spring perches off and reset to the proper amount and reweld. I am truckless..

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: 340SHORTY] #1203432 03/30/12 10:10 PM 03/30/12 10:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,653 Near Reading PA USA pinkduster master
pinkduster master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,653 Near Reading PA USA	If you don't want your car to have the "stink bug" stance you'll have to put your springs back in the top hole, cut the perches of your rear end housing and weld new ones on to get a nose down pinon angle. That's what I had to do on my 71.

Re: SS Springs. What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Joshs68] #1203433 03/30/12 10:28 PM 03/30/12 10:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 892 USA K krw71ragtop super stock
krw71ragtop super stock K Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 892 USA	Quote: They are cheap and you may need to try more than one set as they are sold in fixed degree increments. But not made to stack together What do you consider cheap ? And where is this place you get them from "cheap" ?

Page 1 of 2

1

2

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1