I did a google post and saw these http://www.helixsuspension.com/catalog/S...-Bracket-(Pair)
any body ever used these or heard of them?

Never heard of them - They don't mention how much of a drop they give you - everyone seems to be using the fatman spindles or the magnumforce ones...

If you have to use their brackets that sucks for brake upgrades.

OE or OE replacement spindles are drop forged... very strong and tough.

I understand the dropped spindles are one form or another of casting... some better than others but none as tough as forged steel. MA ran an article on the different types last year.

With big T bars and maybe a little trimming of the bump stops you can drop the OE suspension a fair amount with the adjusters... a much better solution I believe.

The picture doesn't show a dropped spindle. My guess is that is just the standard aftermarket knuckle that has been on the market for a while. The description may not be accurate.

Would some one please explain to me using data and experience why dropped spindles are are needed?
A car can be only so low before contact with objects...

Drop spindles can give you an opportunity to utilize more shock travel while you keep the same Center of Gravity location. Other then that, to me, there is not much benefit unless you know exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

If you think that throwing drop spindles on will help the car handle better, this is not correct. The most important factor in all this is your Roll Center. Using drop spindles is effectively raising your roll center, which is not ideal for racing situations.

Stock spindles can bent almost 90° w/o breaking (drop forged). All the aftermarket ones are some premium cast "Austermpered"). Judge for yourself:

Drop Spindle Test Video

Rick

what about these?

http://www.magnumforce.com/store/detail.asp?ProductID=3939

I'd say this is all similar to opinions engine builders have about forged cranks vs the newer cast steel units and wheel manufactuers have been spouting about forged vs cast wheels for decades. A lot of progress has been made in the casting process and materials that they use are not as brittle as they were in decades past, but a casting will still fail before a forging.

However, using a sledge to hammer on a spindle that is retained at the very tip of the threads isn't really representative of the way loads are carried by and transfered through the part. The tip of the spindle does not carry the entire force of the load put in to the component, so the fact that it broke doesn't suprise me. Clamp the spindle at the lower ball joint surface and then hammer at it and see what happens then.

From what I've seen on the market, there are only two drop spindles out there for mopar applications. There are the Fatman units that are basically a plate with a pressed in stub shaft and welded upper ball joint tab (and they weigh a lot!) and these cast steel units that I "think" originated at Magnumforce, but are resold through several different vendors such as PST, Just Suspension, and maybe even Helix. IMO, Helix needs to update their website to more properly represent what they are selling as their description doesn't match their picture.

There are some practical uses for drop spindles in competition applications where the range of adjustment is great enough to correct the geometry issues that results from their use. Drop spindles do create additional bump steer problems because of the change of position of the inner tie rod pivot points that results from the overall change of chassis position.

For the average cruiser crowd who wants a lower look with soft wheel rates that need the extra travel to avoid bottoming out, they are perfect. For a performance enthusiast with a basically stock layout and higher wheel rates on a relatively smooth surface, like a track, there isn't a lot of benefit compared to the tried and true turn down the t-bars approach.

While the testing method may be questionable its no doubt that the cast spindles are weaker than factory. So, for a street car where a lowered stance is desired are you better off going to the drop spindle or getting adjustable UCA to gain the caster and camber adjustment needed for the correct alignment?

How does the inner tie rod pivot position change with drop knuckles?

As far as I know, the location of the upper and lower ball joints as well as the tie rod stay in the same place. The only thing moved upward is the spindle and caliper mounts.

I can see how lowering a vehicle by relaxing the torsion bars would cause that problem, however.