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416 questions on quench #117548
09/08/08 09:45 PM
09/08/08 09:45 PM
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Dayton, Ohio
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65cuda Offline OP
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I am building my short block and measuring up the parts. i have enough room for a party in there.
stats:
340 .030 over
4" eagle cast crank
Ross 21cc dish flat tops that are 15-18 in the hole
J heads 2.02/1.60 home ported and gasket matched
8 3/4 391
3000 stall 904
dual plane stealth
750 holley vac. sec.
now the J heads seems to have about .080 in the quench area. gasket .039 or 029 and pistons 15-18 in the hole. how in the world do i get all this down to .040 is it worth it to get the 15 decked off the block when i have all the otherspace. i also haven't picked a cam yet i have an old MP 508 in stock and i had a Comp .507/.510 240/246 @50 that was real nice in a 360. thinking about getting another one of those.
intended use mostly car shows and around town with a few trips to the strip

4673059-P5240001.JPG (62 downloads)

65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
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Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: 65cuda] #117549
09/08/08 10:25 PM
09/08/08 10:25 PM
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ahy Offline
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Its hard to see how you can get there with parts you have. As you said, milling the block won't help. What is the CR as it is now? If its around 9-9.5:1 it would run fine on pump premium. I'd consider running it as is. To get quench you would need quench pad pistons fitted to the heads (KB hyper's?) or a head with flat quench surface.

A Magnum type head may be a good option to work with your pistons. With a thin gasket and/or some block milling you would get your quench.

Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: ahy] #117550
09/08/08 11:07 PM
09/08/08 11:07 PM
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Dayton, Ohio
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65cuda Offline OP
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you know i always here about people saying u need to build a quench motor but it looks like it would have to have too hi CR to be streetable. i am at 9.6 as it is. maybe some e heads down the road.


65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
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Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: 65cuda] #117551
09/08/08 11:31 PM
09/08/08 11:31 PM
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Mopar with it's open chamber head designs doesn't make it easy, either a step head piston with a lower compression height or a closed chamber head & a flat top with a dish in the chamber area....

Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #117552
09/09/08 08:58 AM
09/09/08 08:58 AM
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69Cuda340S Offline
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A set of EQ closed chamber iron heads would work well.

Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: 65cuda] #117553
09/09/08 09:41 AM
09/09/08 09:41 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quench(probably) cannot be had with what you have. If you milled the block & especialy the heads & the right custom head gaskets you could & with 21cc dishes the CR could be tolerable but with that much head milling the manifold alignment MIGHT be too far off in addition to pushrod length & the open chamber head receses can vary in depth and slope,it's a real pita. If you sold your heads & went with some magnums & custom .021 gaskets You'd have it & a much better head & you'd need the extra's that the magnum head conversion requires. The dish's are 21cc???

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/09/08 10:34 AM.
Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: RapidRobert] #117554
09/09/08 02:09 PM
09/09/08 02:09 PM
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65cuda Offline OP
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yes the dish is 21cc. they are Ross forged units. i picked them because the plane flatops are about 12/1. so the dish keeps me in the pump gas range. they still have a flat on them. so i thought that would give me some quench. maybe down the road i will get some e heads.


65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: 65cuda] #117555
09/09/08 02:25 PM
09/09/08 02:25 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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in that case you could do a bunch of milling to your J's or go to magnums & have quench & be OK with pump gas . With the time/money invested in a stroker I would go the extra mile & create an efficient eng that is not leaving anything on the table and quench will allow you to run more CR and advance which means more power/less ping & whatever you do/add later to your eng that your core build is as good as it can get.


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Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: RapidRobert] #117556
09/09/08 09:30 PM
09/09/08 09:30 PM
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65cuda Offline OP
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RR i took the block back to the shop and told them to take .015 off the deck. this will give me about 0 deck height. so now the question will e heads or iron mags work the best. or will they work about the same? i don't want to riun the Js i will save them for another motor. i don't know how the combustion chamber is. will it just be the thickness of the gasket away from the piston?
where's the patrick when u need him he knows all about the maggies.


65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: 65cuda] #117557
09/09/08 09:46 PM
09/09/08 09:46 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

RR so now the question will e heads or iron mags work the best. or will they work about the same? will it just be the thickness of the gasket away from the piston?


YES With the closed chambered mags or ebrocks at zero deck height. The e heads will be a much better head but cost way more $$$$. I do not know where Patrick is at but I remember the last time that I speculated as to his whereabouts

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/09/08 09:51 PM.

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Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: RapidRobert] #117558
09/09/08 09:49 PM
09/09/08 09:49 PM
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65cuda Offline OP
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so they are just flat at the quench point. so a .039 gasket will put your piston .039 away from the head?


65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: 65cuda] #117559
09/09/08 09:59 PM
09/09/08 09:59 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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correct & if you have between .035"-.040(actual measured) you are good. I.E. being able to run 9.9:1 instead of 9:1 on the same gas that's 10% more squeeze. More power & a higher vacuum signal.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: RapidRobert] #117560
09/09/08 10:12 PM
09/09/08 10:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
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65cuda Offline OP
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cool so 10 to 1 with 40 quench would let you run pump gas like you had 9 to 1 without quench. is that what you are saying.


65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: 65cuda] #117561
09/09/08 10:46 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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exactly


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Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: 65cuda] #117562
09/10/08 12:13 AM
09/10/08 12:13 AM
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jbc426 Offline
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How many tanks of gas are you going to burn a month through it? My answer was probably 1 and occasionally 2 per month. That's about what my buddies burn through their Mopars, so I opted for the higher compression option. I'll now have to add a few gallons of 110 octane leaded racing fuel to each tank.

Another way to look at it, is that for about a dollar more per day, I get to run 13-to-1 compression in my hotrod . With a carefully set-up distributor advance curve, a few extra bucks per month for racing fuel, and a small semi-permenant tank mounted in the trunk that holds reserve of racing fuel to mix on longer trips etc; it's not that big of a difference in month-to-month operating costs. Besides, I just couldn't resist the throttle response, the sound, and the performance of a 493 inch, 13-to-1, roller motor with a four speed.

Last edited by jbc426; 09/10/08 12:20 AM.

1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: 416 questions on quench [Re: jbc426] #117563
09/10/08 12:19 AM
09/10/08 12:19 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

How many tanks of gas are you going to burn a month through it? My answer was probably 1 and occasionally 2 per month. That's about what my buddies burn through their Mopars, so I opted for the higher compression option. I'll now have to add a few gallons of 110 octane leaded racing fuel to each tank. Another way to look at it, is that for about a dollar more per day, I get to run 13-to-1 compression in my hotrod . With a carefully set-up distributor advance curve and a few extra bucks for racing fuel per tank, I just couldn't resist the throttle response, the sound, and the performance of a 493 inch, 13-to-1, roller motor with a four speed.


You make a very good case that I have never thought about before for just going hog wild with it


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