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cometic starts @ .027 thickness head gaskets for mopars

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I looked on their site and all the ones listed are .040.

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Not that I've seen. cut .030 off the heads to decrease CC about 5 to 6CC

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Not that I've seen. cut .030 off the heads to decrease CC about 5 to 6CC

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cometic starts @ .027 thickness head gaskets for mopars

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I looked on their site and all the ones listed are .040.

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cometic starts @ .027 thickness head gaskets for mopars

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I looked on their site and all the ones listed are .040.

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CGT-C5461-027 is the Summit listing for the .027 compressed thickness gasket, it shows as multi layer steel.

Link to Summit page

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Thanks! I'll check it out.

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SCR (squeeze) is power, Yes mill the heads & I'd consider more than 9.5. Steel shim ones will work w sealer if both decks are machined flat

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Is there a formula for cutting the heads a certain amount and knowing how much it reduces volume?

Also, would cutting them .030 effect the valve train geometry and intake manifold fit? I understand that if you cut the heads, you need to also cut the intake to match.

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cometic starts @ .027 thickness head gaskets for mopars

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I looked on their site and all the ones listed are .040.

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CGT-C5461-027 is the Summit listing for the .027 compressed thickness gasket, it shows as multi layer steel.

Link to Summit page

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Is there a formula for cutting the heads a certain amount and knowing how much it reduces volume?

Also, would cutting them .030 effect the valve train geometry and intake manifold fit? I understand that if you cut the heads, you need to also cut the intake to match.

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Is there a formula for cutting the heads a certain amount and knowing how much it reduces volume?

Also, would cutting them .030 effect the valve train geometry and intake manifold fit? I understand that if you cut the heads, you need to also cut the intake to match.

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(1) there MAY be some formulas in the archives & try googling that exact how to Q about a particular head. (2) You'd need to machine to get the SCR squared away then set the heads on new gaskets with several bolts per side to JUST snug the heads then mockup the intake to check intake/head port & bolt hole alignment plus lifter preload then you can mill to suit & pushrod length to get preload acceptable. Get each subsystem spot on or near spot on or close enough (depending on what system).

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You do need to get out more , cutting the heads to achieve lifter preload ...

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milling specs.

Mister P Body said in another thread:

"for every .010
taken of the combustion chamber you need to take .0095
off the intake surface of the head"

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& pushrod length to get preload acceptable.

You do need to get out more , cutting the heads to achieve lifter preload ...

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Ok, thanks guys.

Spending $180 on head gaskets to gain 6-7hp/lbft or going through the trouble and expense of having the heads and intake milled (and all the complicated logistics) for a street car, may not be worth the trouble. Even if I bump it to 9.7:1 it shows I stand to gain only about 15hp/15lbft. I doubt I will feel it while driving on the street. I'll have to bounce it around my brain for a bit.

I appreciate the input.

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Ok, thanks guys.

Spending $180 on head gaskets to gain 6-7hp/lbft or going through the trouble and expense of having the heads and intake milled (and all the complicated logistics) for a street car, may not be worth the trouble. Even if I bump it to 9.7:1 it shows I stand to gain only about 15hp/15lbft. I doubt I will feel it while driving on the street. I'll have to bounce it around my brain for a bit.

I appreciate the input.

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With a Source head the quoation for surfacing should be checked to make sure it's calculates correct.
Everything is getting confused here. To reduce chamber cc volume cut approx .0062 to reduce 1cc. For every .010 thousands cut off the cylinder head deck you would cut .0123 or 12.3 thousands off the intake runner side of the head, your not correcting the intake manifold!!!your correcting the cylinder head face height to lower the intake manifold for better fitment. Also something to check while fitting the manifold, to make sure the manifold is going to seat down good sand or grind off, chamfer at the very bottom edge to knock down the corner of the manifold at the bottom of the intake runner so the manifold will seat properly to the cylinder head intake runner face of the head. I have a Winfield Fixture in my head mill so it's easy for me to do the correction on the intake runner side of the head.

logan426

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This is how you do it, quick and easy.

It's going to run how it runs , you are putting too much faith in that computer program for what to me is a mismatched build .

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Ok, thanks guys.

Spending $180 on head gaskets to gain 6-7hp/lbft or going through the trouble and expense of having the heads and intake milled (and all the complicated logistics) for a street car, may not be worth the trouble. Even if I bump it to 9.7:1 it shows I stand to gain only about 15hp/15lbft. I doubt I will feel it while driving on the street. I'll have to bounce it around my brain for a bit.

I appreciate the input.

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With a Source head the quoation for surfacing should be checked to make sure it's calculates correct.
Everything is getting confused here. To reduce chamber cc volume cut approx .0062 to reduce 1cc. For every .010 thousands cut off the cylinder head deck you would cut .0123 or 12.3 thousands off the intake runner side of the head, your not correcting the intake manifold!!!your correcting the cylinder head face height to lower the intake manifold for better fitment. Also something to check while fitting the manifold, to make sure the manifold is going to seat down good sand or grind off, chamfer at the very bottom edge to knock down the corner of the manifold at the bottom of the intake runner so the manifold will seat properly to the cylinder head intake runner face of the head. I have a Winfield Fixture in my head mill so it's easy for me to do the correction on the intake runner side of the head.

logan426

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Right, I understand you would cut the intake surface of the head, not the intake, thanks.

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Ok, thanks guys.

Spending $180 on head gaskets to gain 6-7hp/lbft or going through the trouble and expense of having the heads and intake milled (and all the complicated logistics) for a street car, may not be worth the trouble. Even if I bump it to 9.7:1 it shows I stand to gain only about 15hp/15lbft. I doubt I will feel it while driving on the street. I'll have to bounce it around my brain for a bit.

I appreciate the input.

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With a Source head the quoation for surfacing should be checked to make sure it's calculates correct.
Everything is getting confused here. To reduce chamber cc volume cut approx .0062 to reduce 1cc. For every .010 thousands cut off the cylinder head deck you would cut .0123 or 12.3 thousands off the intake runner side of the head, your not correcting the intake manifold!!!your correcting the cylinder head face height to lower the intake manifold for better fitment. Also something to check while fitting the manifold, to make sure the manifold is going to seat down good sand or grind off, chamfer at the very bottom edge to knock down the corner of the manifold at the bottom of the intake runner so the manifold will seat properly to the cylinder head intake runner face of the head. I have a Winfield Fixture in my head mill so it's easy for me to do the correction on the intake runner side of the head.

logan426

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This is how you do it, quick and easy.

It's going to run how it runs , you are putting too much faith in that computer program for what to me is a mismatched build .

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Ok, thanks guys.

Spending $180 on head gaskets to gain 6-7hp/lbft or going through the trouble and expense of having the heads and intake milled (and all the complicated logistics) for a street car, may not be worth the trouble. Even if I bump it to 9.7:1 it shows I stand to gain only about 15hp/15lbft. I doubt I will feel it while driving on the street. I'll have to bounce it around my brain for a bit.

I appreciate the input.

---

With a Source head the quoation for surfacing should be checked to make sure it's calculates correct.
Everything is getting confused here. To reduce chamber cc volume cut approx .0062 to reduce 1cc. For every .010 thousands cut off the cylinder head deck you would cut .0123 or 12.3 thousands off the intake runner side of the head, your not correcting the intake manifold!!!your correcting the cylinder head face height to lower the intake manifold for better fitment. Also something to check while fitting the manifold, to make sure the manifold is going to seat down good sand or grind off, chamfer at the very bottom edge to knock down the corner of the manifold at the bottom of the intake runner so the manifold will seat properly to the cylinder head intake runner face of the head. I have a Winfield Fixture in my head mill so it's easy for me to do the correction on the intake runner side of the head.

logan426

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This is how you do it, quick and easy.

It's going to run how it runs , you are putting too much faith in that computer program for what to me is a mismatched build .

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Curious, what would you change? I know that quench doesn't come into play because of the pistons, and the compression ratio is a bit low for the cam (with the .027" Gaskets I will end up with 9.35:1). I'm trying to get the most out of this motor on a budget. Long story, but I'm kind of stuck with the bottom end as is. I can't afford to replace the new pistons and I would like to use this cam as it is also new and don't want the expense of a new one if I don't have to. I was told that while not ultimately optimum, this will be an ok build. Am I way off here?

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Since keeping the short block as is (good plan/k.i.s.s.) you might change the cam to build some psi or adv that one. When you're up & running spend alot of time dialing in the dzzy. Not a cam guy so no specific recommendations but you're on the right track

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closed chamber heads like the 440 alum, will delete more ccs by milling than open chamber heads. i mill stealth heads .010 when new to make chamber smaller to seal better and head more true. if the 440 block you are using is just a rummy block, i would deck it .065 then mill heads .020 and use .018 thou steel gaskets. dont mill intake side of heads ive cut them up to .040 on deck with no fitment issue on intake.after all that decking its 50/50 intake wont fit right if so i would clobber intake to fit,this is the cheapest way to make that motor scream. pistons will be only 20 thou from deck and and 18 gasket will equal .038 quench,and heads will be 78cc hello compression, then swap heads to 500 inch new short block when ready.

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closed chamber heads like the 440 alum, will delete more ccs by milling than open chamber heads. i mill stealth heads .010 when new to make chamber smaller to seal better and head more true. if the 440 block you are using is just a rummy block, i would deck it .065 then mill heads .020 and use .018 thou steel gaskets. dont mill intake side of heads ive cut them up to .040 on deck with no fitment issue on intake.after all that decking its 50/50 intake wont fit right if so i would clobber intake to fit,this is the cheapest way to make that motor scream. pistons will be only 20 thou from deck and and 18 gasket will equal .038 quench,and heads will be 78cc hello compression, then swap heads to 500 inch new short block when ready.

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Seriously ???

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. There's a provision on the crank sprocket to advance 4 degrees, but I'm not sure if it would help.

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. There's a provision on the crank sprocket to advance 4 degrees, but I'm not sure if it would help.

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I believe it would. You'd just need to recheck valve to piston clearance again

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closed chamber heads like the 440 alum, will delete more ccs by milling than open chamber heads. i mill stealth heads .010 when new to make chamber smaller to seal better and head more true. if the 440 block you are using is just a rummy block, i would deck it .065 then mill heads .020 and use .018 thou steel gaskets. dont mill intake side of heads ive cut them up to .040 on deck with no fitment issue on intake.after all that decking its 50/50 intake wont fit right if so i would clobber intake to fit,this is the cheapest way to make that motor scream. pistons will be only 20 thou from deck and and 18 gasket will equal .038 quench,and heads will be 78cc hello compression, then swap heads to 500 inch new short block when ready.

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Seriously ???

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sure ive done many 400s and smogger 440s with -.120 out of deck and heads -80 on block and -40 from heads. learned it from machine shops that would build super stock motors most had -100 of decks,as long as you used class piston its all good.

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closed chamber heads like the 440 alum, will delete more ccs by milling than open chamber heads. i mill stealth heads .010 when new to make chamber smaller to seal better and head more true. if the 440 block you are using is just a rummy block, i would deck it .065 then mill heads .020 and use .018 thou steel gaskets. dont mill intake side of heads ive cut them up to .040 on deck with no fitment issue on intake.after all that decking its 50/50 intake wont fit right if so i would clobber intake to fit,this is the cheapest way to make that motor scream. pistons will be only 20 thou from deck and and 18 gasket will equal .038 quench,and heads will be 78cc hello compression, then swap heads to 500 inch new short block when ready.

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Seriously ???

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sure ive done many 400s and smogger 440s with -.120 out of deck and heads -80 on block and -40 from heads. learned it from machine shops that would build super stock motors most had -100 of decks,as long as you used class piston its all good.

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But this isn't 1970, you do something like that because you have to. It would be cheaper to buy another set of pistons than to basically ruin a block and heads .

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$100 to whack block? Out of whack. I was looking for 30 off the top of my 318 and $150 - $180 at decent shops. Heads used to be $45 per surface and that was 10 years ago. Gotta be at least $100 to just do the deck sides, double it to cut the intake side.

And, 440 cores are $300 - $450.

This is in Denver. You must be in a really depressed area.

R.

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yes super depressed/recessed buffalo wny area. friend of mine also owns shop selling nice smooger core 440 for 150. bucks on the list cant sell it..there are also 100 machine shops here in this county most are super slow and dropping prices to pay for machine loans. 3 well known shops asked if i knew any who wanted to buy them. last i knew dever was around 65k a year job average, buffalo is like 25k job average

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. There's a provision on the crank sprocket to advance 4 degrees, but I'm not sure if it would help.

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I believe it would. You'd just need to recheck valve to piston clearance again

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before you do that degree the cam now to set where intake centerline is at, then decide if you want to advance it. that cam is ground for all low end and torque now i would not andvance it. just make sure its on 109 now. is you do advance it 4 degree it will never hit pistons 080 down from deck with 465/488 lift

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closed chamber heads like the 440 alum, will delete more ccs by milling than open chamber heads. i mill stealth heads .010 when new to make chamber smaller to seal better and head more true. if the 440 block you are using is just a rummy block, i would deck it .065 then mill heads .020 and use .018 thou steel gaskets. dont mill intake side of heads ive cut them up to .040 on deck with no fitment issue on intake.after all that decking its 50/50 intake wont fit right if so i would clobber intake to fit,this is the cheapest way to make that motor scream. pistons will be only 20 thou from deck and and 18 gasket will equal .038 quench,and heads will be 78cc hello compression, then swap heads to 500 inch new short block when ready.

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closed chamber heads like the 440 alum, will delete more ccs by milling than open chamber heads. i mill stealth heads .010 when new to make chamber smaller to seal better and head more true. if the 440 block you are using is just a rummy block, i would deck it .065 then mill heads .020 and use .018 thou steel gaskets. dont mill intake side of heads ive cut them up to .040 on deck with no fitment issue on intake.after all that decking its 50/50 intake wont fit right if so i would clobber intake to fit,this is the cheapest way to make that motor scream. pistons will be only 20 thou from deck and and 18 gasket will equal .038 quench,and heads will be 78cc hello compression, then swap heads to 500 inch new short block when ready.

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Really ??? I mean no disrespect but milling the deck .065 ?? and the heads .020 ?? clobber intake to fit ?? So your proposing to cut or raise the intake runner of the head and cutting the bottom of the intake runner of the intake to improve fit of the intake ?? It's 100 % the intake will not fit right. I'm out of this thread it can go on and on about opinions.

logan426

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closed chamber heads like the 440 alum, will delete more ccs by milling than open chamber heads. i mill stealth heads .010 when new to make chamber smaller to seal better and head more true. if the 440 block you are using is just a rummy block, i would deck it .065 then mill heads .020 and use .018 thou steel gaskets. dont mill intake side of heads ive cut them up to .040 on deck with no fitment issue on intake.after all that decking its 50/50 intake wont fit right if so i would clobber intake to fit,this is the cheapest way to make that motor scream. pistons will be only 20 thou from deck and and 18 gasket will equal .038 quench,and heads will be 78cc hello compression, then swap heads to 500 inch new short block when ready.

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Really ??? I mean no disrespect but milling the deck .065 ?? and the heads .020 ?? clobber intake to fit ?? So your proposing to cut or raise the intake runner of the head and cutting the bottom of the intake runner of the intake to improve fit of the intake ?? It's 100 % the intake will not fit right. I'm out of this thread it can go on and on about opinions.

logan426

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Use a .020 Superformance steel shim gasket coated with gold permatex spray. I think they are ~ $25 a set.

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Use a .020 Superformance steel shim gasket coated with gold permatex spray. I think they are ~ $25 a set.

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<tap> <tap> is this thing on? Call Greg and he will hook you up.

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I was told by 440 Source that it has to be a multi-layer gasket, and not to use a steel shim gasket

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Production Mopars used steel shim head gaskets, about .020 thick. FelPro composite head gasket is app. .040 thick. If you use the thick gaskets and cut your heads .030, you've only affected the factory geometry .010 - not enough to require milling the intake manifold or the intake surface of the head. So just cut the deck surface of the heads .030, which will give you the extra half point compression you're looking for and you're done.

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Ya Mon mill it...mill it