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440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? #1167722
01/29/12 01:52 PM
01/29/12 01:52 PM
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Out in Left Field, NY
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bobs66440 Offline OP
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I'm building my 440 with Stealth heads and Summit 6401 cam. The .030 pistons are .085" in the hole. I cc'd the heads at 83cc which brings my compression ratio to 9.0:1 using .040 composite gaskets. I was hoping for 9.5:1 as that is what the cam calls for minimum. I also ran the numbers through my desktop dyno and the difference is about 10 hp and 10 lb/ft, which isn't huge, but if I can find a thinner gasket, it's easy power.

Thanks!

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: bobs66440] #1167723
01/29/12 02:14 PM
01/29/12 02:14 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Not that I've seen. cut .030 off the heads to decrease CC about 5 to 6CC

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: bobs66440] #1167724
01/29/12 02:35 PM
01/29/12 02:35 PM
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MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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hemigod426 Offline
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MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
cometic starts @ .027 thickness head gaskets for mopars


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: hemigod426] #1167725
01/29/12 03:15 PM
01/29/12 03:15 PM
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Out in Left Field, NY
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bobs66440 Offline OP
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Quote:

cometic starts @ .027 thickness head gaskets for mopars


I looked on their site and all the ones listed are .040.

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: bobs66440] #1167726
01/29/12 03:19 PM
01/29/12 03:19 PM
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Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick Offline
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Nope the only gaskets that thin are steel shim


Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: bobs66440] #1167727
01/29/12 03:20 PM
01/29/12 03:20 PM
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Birmingham, England
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Mick70RR Offline
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I used steel shim head gaskets with my Stealth heads. I coated them both sides with spray-on Hylomar.


1970 Road Runner 505 cid MCH CNC ported Stealth heads MP 528 camshaft 4 speed GV overdrive 11.98 @ 117 on street treads
Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: Dodgem] #1167728
01/29/12 03:33 PM
01/29/12 03:33 PM
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A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Not that I've seen. cut .030 off the heads to decrease CC about 5 to 6CC




This , just cut the heads.

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: Dodgem] #1167729
01/29/12 03:39 PM
01/29/12 03:39 PM
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MLR426 Offline
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Quote:

Not that I've seen. cut .030 off the heads to decrease CC about 5 to 6CC




I agree with above.
When it's time to whack'em you must whack'em,

logan426

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: bobs66440] #1167730
01/29/12 08:53 PM
01/29/12 08:53 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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SCR (squeeze) is power, Yes mill the heads & I'd consider more than 9.5. Steel shim ones will work w sealer if both decks are machined flat


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: bobs66440] #1167731
01/29/12 10:53 PM
01/29/12 10:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 964
Nanaimo, B.C.
GwaiiEagle Offline
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Nanaimo, B.C.
Quote:

Quote:

cometic starts @ .027 thickness head gaskets for mopars


I looked on their site and all the ones listed are .040.





CGT-C5461-027 is the Summit listing for the .027 compressed thickness gasket, it shows as multi layer steel.

Link to Summit page

Last edited by GwaiiEagle; 01/29/12 11:00 PM.
Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: RapidRobert] #1167732
01/29/12 11:17 PM
01/29/12 11:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
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Out in Left Field, NY
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bobs66440 Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

cometic starts @ .027 thickness head gaskets for mopars


I looked on their site and all the ones listed are .040.





CGT-C5461-027 is the Summit listing for the .027 compressed thickness gasket, it shows as multi layer steel.

Link to Summit page


Thanks! I'll check it out.

Quote:

SCR (squeeze) is power, Yes mill the heads & I'd consider more than 9.5. Steel shim ones will work w sealer if both decks are machined flat


Is there a formula for cutting the heads a certain amount and knowing how much it reduces volume?

Also, would cutting them .030 effect the valve train geometry and intake manifold fit? I understand that if you cut the heads, you need to also cut the intake to match.

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: bobs66440] #1167733
01/30/12 12:28 AM
01/30/12 12:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 964
Nanaimo, B.C.
GwaiiEagle Offline
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milling specs.

Mister P Body said in another thread:

"for every .010
taken of the combustion chamber you need to take .0095
off the intake surface of the head"

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: GwaiiEagle] #1167734
01/30/12 12:32 AM
01/30/12 12:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,126
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

cometic starts @ .027 thickness head gaskets for mopars


I looked on their site and all the ones listed are .040.





CGT-C5461-027 is the Summit listing for the .027 compressed thickness gasket, it shows as multi layer steel.

Link to Summit page




Quote:

Quantity ..... Sold individually.




$87 a piece , cheaper to cut the heads .

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: bobs66440] #1167735
01/30/12 12:33 AM
01/30/12 12:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

Is there a formula for cutting the heads a certain amount and knowing how much it reduces volume?

Also, would cutting them .030 effect the valve train geometry and intake manifold fit? I understand that if you cut the heads, you need to also cut the intake to match.


(1) there MAY be some formulas in the archives & try googling that exact how to Q about a particular head. (2) You'd need to machine to get the SCR squared away then set the heads on new gaskets with several bolts per side to JUST snug the heads then mockup the intake to check intake/head port & bolt hole alignment plus lifter preload then you can mill to suit & pushrod length to get preload acceptable. Get each subsystem spot on or near spot on or close enough (depending on what system).


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: RapidRobert] #1167736
01/30/12 12:35 AM
01/30/12 12:35 AM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Is there a formula for cutting the heads a certain amount and knowing how much it reduces volume?

Also, would cutting them .030 effect the valve train geometry and intake manifold fit? I understand that if you cut the heads, you need to also cut the intake to match.


(1) there MAY be some formulas in the archives & try googling that exact how to Q about a particular head. (2) You'd need to machine to get the SCR squared away then set the heads on new gaskets with several bolts per side to JUST snug the heads then mockup the intake to check intake/head port & bolt hole alignment plus lifter preload then you can mill to suit & pushrod length to get preload acceptable. Get each subsystem spot on or near spot on or close enough (depending on what system).




You do need to get out more , cutting the heads to achieve lifter preload ...

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: GwaiiEagle] #1167737
01/30/12 12:39 AM
01/30/12 12:39 AM
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Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
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Quote:

milling specs.

Mister P Body said in another thread:

"for every .010
taken of the combustion chamber you need to take .0095
off the intake surface of the head"




that only applies to smallblocks. for bigblocks, for every .010 off the deck, take .0123 off the intake face.


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: JohnRR] #1167738
01/30/12 12:41 AM
01/30/12 12:41 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

& pushrod length to get preload acceptable.

You do need to get out more , cutting the heads to achieve lifter preload ...


(1) pushrod length for the preload (2) Yes I'm waiting for the weather straighten up some


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: RapidRobert] #1167739
01/30/12 09:19 AM
01/30/12 09:19 AM
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Out in Left Field, NY
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bobs66440 Offline OP
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Ok, thanks guys.

Spending $180 on head gaskets to gain 6-7hp/lbft or going through the trouble and expense of having the heads and intake milled (and all the complicated logistics) for a street car, may not be worth the trouble. Even if I bump it to 9.7:1 it shows I stand to gain only about 15hp/15lbft. I doubt I will feel it while driving on the street. I'll have to bounce it around my brain for a bit.

I appreciate the input.

Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: bobs66440] #1167740
01/30/12 11:00 AM
01/30/12 11:00 AM
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MLR426 Offline
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Quote:

Ok, thanks guys.

Spending $180 on head gaskets to gain 6-7hp/lbft or going through the trouble and expense of having the heads and intake milled (and all the complicated logistics) for a street car, may not be worth the trouble. Even if I bump it to 9.7:1 it shows I stand to gain only about 15hp/15lbft. I doubt I will feel it while driving on the street. I'll have to bounce it around my brain for a bit.

I appreciate the input.




With a Source head the quoation for surfacing should be checked to make sure it calculates correct.
Everything is getting confused here. To reduce chamber cc volume cut approx .0062 to reduce 1cc. For every .010 thousands cut off the cylinder head deck you would cut .0123 or 12.3 thousands off the intake runner side of the head, your not correcting the intake manifold!!!your correcting the cylinder head face height to lower the intake manifold for better fitment. Also something to check while fitting the manifold, to make sure the manifold is going to seat down good sand or grind off, chamfer at the very bottom edge to knock down the corner of the manifold at the bottom of the intake runner so the manifold will seat properly to the cylinder head intake runner face of the head. I have a Winfield Fixture in my head mill so it's easy for me to do the correction on the intake runner side of the head.

logan426

Last edited by Logan426; 01/30/12 11:30 AM.
Re: 440 .020" Composite Head Gaskets Available? [Re: MLR426] #1167741
01/30/12 11:21 AM
01/30/12 11:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,126
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Ok, thanks guys.

Spending $180 on head gaskets to gain 6-7hp/lbft or going through the trouble and expense of having the heads and intake milled (and all the complicated logistics) for a street car, may not be worth the trouble. Even if I bump it to 9.7:1 it shows I stand to gain only about 15hp/15lbft. I doubt I will feel it while driving on the street. I'll have to bounce it around my brain for a bit.

I appreciate the input.




With a Source head the quoation for surfacing should be checked to make sure it's calculates correct.
Everything is getting confused here. To reduce chamber cc volume cut approx .0062 to reduce 1cc. For every .010 thousands cut off the cylinder head deck you would cut .0123 or 12.3 thousands off the intake runner side of the head, your not correcting the intake manifold!!!your correcting the cylinder head face height to lower the intake manifold for better fitment. Also something to check while fitting the manifold, to make sure the manifold is going to seat down good sand or grind off, chamfer at the very bottom edge to knock down the corner of the manifold at the bottom of the intake runner so the manifold will seat properly to the cylinder head intake runner face of the head. I have a Winfield Fixture in my head mill so it's easy for me to do the correction on the intake runner side of the head.

logan426




This is how you do it, quick and easy.

It's going to run how it runs , you are putting too much faith in that computer program for what to me is a mismatched build .

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