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Fiberglass Springs any good?
#1157226
01/14/12 06:15 PM
01/14/12 06:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
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Hello,
Springs like the Flex a Form provide a huge weight savings but do they hold up and are they any better/worse for performance handling?
Damon
Last edited by mopardamo; 01/14/12 06:16 PM.
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: mopardamo]
#1157228
01/15/12 04:03 PM
01/15/12 04:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I have them on 3 of my cars, the flex a form is pictured. One set is hyperco, they appear to be higher quality. I had one leaf years back nearly brand new seemed to start to splinter very slightly from Flex a form, sent them a pic and they sent a new entire set, have the old ones sitting on the shelf. They seem to be an improvement, huge unsprung weight savings. They have been on old vettes for years and very HD versions are on Class8 semis.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: jcc]
#1157229
02/02/12 01:33 PM
02/02/12 01:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I have a set of #225 flex a forms, how will they compare in ride and handling to say a set of factory 340 leafs?
How do they work and hold up in drag racing applications?
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1157230
02/02/12 03:31 PM
02/02/12 03:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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I've had the FlexaForms on my T/A since ~1990... used primarily for SCCA Solo II autocross in class E/Street Prepared (nationally-prepared for ultimate competition!). I discussed with FlexaForm and determined a spec of 225# w/5"arch so the springs would be nearly flat while at rest in competition condition (~1/4 tank fuel with driver ~175#). I pulled the rubber bushings and installed poly bushings (had to slightly turn down the fronts to fit). The springs do take a while (~1-2 weeks) to "settle" down and be flat (otherwise, they are arched for a while and allow wheel-hop until they are settled). I'm very pleased... improved handling through more weight reduction overall (I think they saved ~20# per side). My overall strategy has been to reduce weight of the car (total down to ~3150 today).
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1157231
02/02/12 03:44 PM
02/02/12 03:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
I've had the FlexaForms on my T/A since ~1990... used primarily for SCCA Solo II autocross in class E/Street Prepared (nationally-prepared for ultimate competition!). I discussed with FlexaForm and determined a spec of 225# w/5"arch so the springs would be nearly flat while at rest in competition condition (~1/4 tank fuel with driver ~175#). I pulled the rubber bushings and installed poly bushings (had to slightly turn down the fronts to fit). The springs do take a while (~1-2 weeks) to "settle" down and be flat (otherwise, they are arched for a while and allow wheel-hop until they are settled). I'm very pleased... improved handling through more weight reduction overall (I think they saved ~20# per side). My overall strategy has been to reduce weight of the car (total down to ~3150 today).
So those springs are rated at 225 lb/in?
Seems pretty stiff. If you are at a track event do/would you take some rear roll couple out of your car (less sway bar or spring)?
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: Grizzly]
#1157233
02/03/12 02:13 AM
02/03/12 02:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm very pleased... improved handling through more weight reduction overall (I think they saved ~20# per side).
 Geez, I wonder if it would be feasible for this company to build torsion bars? 
For lighter T-bars you would run gun drilled hollow centers. A place called Sparks in New York claimed they could make gun drilled hollow T-bars.
I would think Speedway Engineering would gun drill them for you. You will get some spring rate loss. But you can just calc that out and use a bigger diameter bar.
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1157234
02/03/12 02:48 AM
02/03/12 02:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8
Erie PA
lakeeffect
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8
Erie PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm very pleased... improved handling through more weight reduction overall (I think they saved ~20# per side).
Geez, I wonder if it would be feasible for this company to build torsion bars?
For lighter T-bars you would run gun drilled hollow centers. A place called Sparks in New York claimed they could make gun drilled hollow T-bars.
I would think Speedway Engineering would gun drill them for you. You will get some spring rate loss. But you can just calc that out and use a bigger diameter bar.
T-Bars are unsprung weight right? If so i would the think cost and strength would be hard to justify. Also i cant see how Gun drilling wouldn't change the spring rate.Gun Drilled axles/Floater is one thing.
Bit off topic but Speedway Engineering makes some cool stuff. They list Floater 8 3/4 and 8 1/4 mini stock housings. Not sure what one they actually sell. Has all the cool stuff but its 4 bolt.
Im no expert just my 
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1157237
02/05/12 11:49 PM
02/05/12 11:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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Quote:
I have a set of #225 flex a forms, how will they compare in ride and handling to say a set of factory 340 leafs?
How do they work and hold up in drag racing applications?
An A-body with 340 came with leafs with a spring rate of approximately 120 lbs/in.
DC books/bulletins state the super stock springs are 160 lbs/in.
So if nothing else has been changed in terms of front spring rates or front/rear vehicle weight, switching to 225 #/in leafs will cause the vehicle to get loose in the rear (aka oversteer) when in sweeper. Many good autocrossers like the rear a little loose for competition. This is not a winning setup for highway speeds and faster.  A downhill curve on a rainy day can be equally exciting.
If you are drag racing on slicks, I can't really picture launching on a single leaf without other changes. I guess it probably depends on how hard the car launches, but ideally the chassis will lift and maximize the rear wheel's downward force.
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: Mattax]
#1157238
02/12/12 10:12 AM
02/12/12 10:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I just remebered I ran into an annoying problem with Flex a Forms a few years back. They said its not a problem. I disagree. I suspect the fiberglass springs are made up as one long arc, and with designated design rating. After curing, the arc is sliced like a loaf of bread into spring widths as needed. Additionally, the "arc" is thicker towards the center, and thins towards the edges, depending on how the sliced arc is shortened to needed spring length, this thicken section can be placed in needed location where the axle housing is bolted, ie the difference between SS springs (20"?) front segment and reg (22"?) front segment. Anyhowe, I will post later a pic of the set I am unhappy with, and you decide. They would not replace them, and I installed them on a beater Charger 318 B body.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: jcc]
#1157239
02/12/12 05:43 PM
02/12/12 05:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I hope its noticeable the thicker cross section behind the axle mounting point.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1157241
02/13/12 01:52 PM
02/13/12 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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I've been very pleased with the FlxaForm leafs (225 lbs with 5" arch)for Solo II style autocross events; played with the bushings (poly vs rubber... setteld at rubber endlinks; frame mounts are poly) on the endlinks of the 1"rear bar, as well as the Koni (reds) adjustment at ~3/4 stiff (full stiff lifts the rear tires off the ground at max cornering. Now, for recent road course lapping/track events, all is still the same but it does tend to slightly want to oversteer in hard sweepers, but I'm not driving to the max limits yet at the road course events (need new tires as I'm driving to/from on old BFG T/As instead of trailering with preferred sticky Hoosiers). I may eventually re-install my factory 3/4" rear bar for road course events and then play again with the endlinks to fine tune it, as well as the stiffness of the Konis... perhaps this year with the rear bar, but first I need new tires (Hoosier A6 or else may change to Kumohs XS)...as you know, I have 16x10 race rims ft/rr with very old A6 on them now... driving on street/track with the old BFG T/As on 15x8 minilites.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1157244
02/14/12 03:22 PM
02/14/12 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
Thats because like many other speed parts they are desighned for a chevy and modded for a use on a mopar. A mopar does not mount the axle in the middle of a spring like a chevy or ford but those springs are engineered for generic cars and they just move the axle mounting point and sell it for mopars.
I have not used nor looked closely at a fiberglass spring to verify this. If that is how they are made, then the thickness of the spring and its location could be a factor in the need for any traction enhancing device. However, if the frotn segment is trimmed shorter to fit a mopar appplication, that should still provide a thicker cross section than a competitors design which is a strength of the mopar design.
A fiberglass spring by nature is more rigid than a steel spring and in a road or autocross setting should not require additional traction devices, IMO, but no first hand experience here. On the other hand, a drag launch may need a device because of the signficant shock loading of the springs and the brittle nature of fiberglass.
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Re: Fiberglass Springs any good?
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1157245
02/14/12 05:17 PM
02/14/12 05:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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stiffer? a quick google search shows fiberglass' elastic modulus is 17.2 GPA, steel is 200GPA, so steel is 11.6x stiffer. to get the same effective stiffness, for a same length & width beam segment, the fiberglass spring will need to be approx 2.25x thicker (taller) to have the same spring rate as a comparable steel spring the way the equations work out.
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