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Aluminum rods on street?? #1128276
12/05/11 06:51 PM
12/05/11 06:51 PM
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MD.
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vttm Offline OP
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Just having a conversation with a friend over the weekend about aluminum rods in a street engine. He says he has seen it done lots of times with no problems just as long as driving short distances. I've always heard this is a nono. Just say engine is a 400 stroked to 499 would it be possible to run aluminum rods for short distances on the street say 10 miles or so? School me on who's correct and why.

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: vttm] #1128277
12/05/11 06:58 PM
12/05/11 06:58 PM

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Drive it, melt tires , have fun No worry!!
If it was built right, it will be Fine!

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: vttm] #1128278
12/05/11 07:42 PM
12/05/11 07:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
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LONG ISLAND
fishy340 Offline
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its got nothing to do with distance driven,the reason u dont really see it,is they cost $ more,and heating up and cooling down is not the best for alum in general.

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: fishy340] #1128279
12/05/11 08:13 PM
12/05/11 08:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline
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10 miles?! that would get me to the local gas station, and half way back! no thanks!


**Photobucket sucks**
Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1128280
12/05/11 08:56 PM
12/05/11 08:56 PM
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Indy
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joshking440 Offline
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aluminum rods in mine, aluminum rods in my dads, bird has aluminum rods in his street car....

lots of people do it

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: joshking440] #1128281
12/05/11 09:04 PM
12/05/11 09:04 PM
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Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
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Yea you just don't beat on them till there up to temp.


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: vttm] #1128282
12/05/11 09:04 PM
12/05/11 09:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,443
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:



would it be possible to run aluminum rods for short distances on the street say 10 miles or so? School me on who's correct and why.




10 miles is a STREET CAR ? ..

HOPPING ON 95 and driving to FL from MD is a STREET CAR ...IMHO !

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: 1967dartgt] #1128283
12/05/11 10:41 PM
12/05/11 10:41 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Quote:

Yea you just don't beat on them till there up to temp.


Do you see any of thr Pro teams, fuel or Pro Stock, blown alcohol or Comp Elininator teams wait to race thier motors until the rods are up to temp? I'm almost positive that there are road race motors as well as circle track motors that use and race aluminum rods that beat on them as soon as they get them on the track without warming up the oil Maybe not


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1128284
12/05/11 10:59 PM
12/05/11 10:59 PM
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Trumbull,CT.
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jim sciortino Offline
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No issue in a couple engines we had them in and one of those engines got some serious street driving for 4 years and dozens of runs between 145-155mph with the same set of BMEs.

New small block has MGPs and that will see plenty of street time next year.

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: jim sciortino] #1128285
12/06/11 03:06 AM
12/06/11 03:06 AM
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Oakville, Wa
HOTMOPR Offline
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BME says their rods are fine for the street. Its all about using good oils.

http://www.bmeltd.com/rods.htm


67 Barracuda, 470" B, Glide, FuelTech FT600, Precision, Ptc, QA1, Calvert, Smith racecraft, Afco, Dana 60. 275 radials
Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: HOTMOPR] #1128286
12/06/11 03:34 AM
12/06/11 03:34 AM
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Las Vegas
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Las Vegas
Done it many times with zero issues. In fact we use to use or old race rods in street engines all the time.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: vttm] #1128287
12/06/11 12:38 PM
12/06/11 12:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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Ah yes.
The Forum, where everyone's opinion has equal value.


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Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: polyspheric] #1128288
12/06/11 01:51 PM
12/06/11 01:51 PM
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dogdays Offline
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It has nothing to do with temperature.

It is all about fatigue life. Let's take steel for an example. As steel goes through millions of tension/compression cycles its strength goes down. At some point the strength levels out, IIRC at about 57% of new. Then the curve of strength vs. cycles is flat.
Now let's look at aluminum. As the cycles mount up the strength goes down...and down...and down. The curve never levels off. It continues until it hits zero. By that time your aluminum part has long since broken. Sounds bad, doesn't it?
But there is a question. How come some aluminum parts last longer than we would expect? I think it has to do with the amount of cyclic stress to which the aluminum part is subjected. Maybe the curve becomes less steep if the part is only stressed to, say, 50% of yield or ultimate. Then the acceptable service life would be extended past the time that an overhaul was needed.

Does anyone have any references for this?

R.

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: dogdays] #1128289
12/06/11 02:34 PM
12/06/11 02:34 PM
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NY
challenger451ci Offline
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Quote:

It has nothing to do with temperature.

It is all about fatigue life. Let's take steel for an example. As steel goes through millions of tension/compression cycles its strength goes down. At some point the strength levels out, IIRC at about 57% of new. Then the curve of strength vs. cycles is flat.
Now let's look at aluminum. As the cycles mount up the strength goes down...and down...and down. The curve never levels off. It continues until it hits zero. By that time your aluminum part has long since broken. Sounds bad, doesn't it?
But there is a question. How come some aluminum parts last longer than we would expect? I think it has to do with the amount of cyclic stress to which the aluminum part is subjected. Maybe the curve becomes less steep if the part is only stressed to, say, 50% of yield or ultimate. Then the acceptable service life would be extended past the time that an overhaul was needed.

Does anyone have any references for this?

R.




IIRC, in order for the part to fatigue, it has to be loaded (stressed) above the fatigue strength. If the rods are designed so that at a given bobweight and RPM limit, no section is loaded beyond the fatigue strength rating, they'll theoretically last forever in that application. Big question is, how sure can you be that you're under the fatigue strength???

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: challenger451ci] #1128290
12/06/11 08:18 PM
12/06/11 08:18 PM
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dogdays Offline
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No. As the aluminum part fatigues the strength keeps going down as the number of cycles goes up. It eventually goes to zero.

What you are describing is for steel, where it levels out at some point.

That's why people don't worry so much about steel connecting rods.

But I'm not sure if a cycle at say 10% of the new tensile stress is the same as a cycle at 90% of the new tensile stress. I am looking for that answer. A lot of this metallurgical stuff isn't "logical" unless you're a metallurgist.

Briggs&Stratton engines use aluminum connecting rods.

Suppose your part will break at 10 million cycles. How many miles is that?Let's use a 27" tire and 3.91 gears. Assume all of the mileage is in High gear. So you have 2,921 revolutions per mile at the crankshaft. How does 3,423.9 miles sound?

I'm back to liking steel rods more and more.

R.

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: dogdays] #1128291
12/06/11 09:50 PM
12/06/11 09:50 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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All Triumph and BSA 750 3 cylinders had aluminum rods. 7,000 RPM engine.
70,000 miles reported frequently.


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Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: dogdays] #1128292
12/07/11 02:56 PM
12/07/11 02:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 292
NY
challenger451ci Offline
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Quote:

No. As the aluminum part fatigues the strength keeps going down as the number of cycles goes up. It eventually goes to zero.

What you are describing is for steel, where it levels out at some point.

That's why people don't worry so much about steel connecting rods.

But I'm not sure if a cycle at say 10% of the new tensile stress is the same as a cycle at 90% of the new tensile stress. I am looking for that answer. A lot of this metallurgical stuff isn't "logical" unless you're a metallurgist.

Briggs&Stratton engines use aluminum connecting rods.

Suppose your part will break at 10 million cycles. How many miles is that?Let's use a 27" tire and 3.91 gears. Assume all of the mileage is in High gear. So you have 2,921 revolutions per mile at the crankshaft. How does 3,423.9 miles sound?

I'm back to liking steel rods more and more.

R.




If you NEVER load the part past the fatigue strength it will NEVER fatigue. I understand that this number is not a constant once the material BEGINS to fatigue. The point I'm making is the material won't ever fatigue if it is not loaded past the fatigue strength. An aluminum part will have a fatigue cycle limit at a given load. If you're below that, fatigue doesn't enter into the equation.
BTW, the tensile stress in a given part at a given load is the same regardless of fatigue strength of the material.

I think this is why a properly applied (overkill) aluminum rod will last virtually forever. If the rods are not properly applied, they will have a life cycle. Since this is not easy to measure in an engine, most engine builders change rods after X-number of cycles as an insurance policy just in case the rods are stressed to beyond the fatigue strength.

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: challenger451ci] #1128293
12/07/11 05:25 PM
12/07/11 05:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 411
Portersville, Pa
1badx Offline
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I run the BME's on the street with no issues. I let the engine warm due to tight quench clearance but other than that I expect to drive them for a long time and keep track of my 1/4 and 1/8th passes. I count those (as well as dyno pulls) as "passes" towards replacement. I don't count street miles.

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: 1badx] #1128294
12/07/11 08:17 PM
12/07/11 08:17 PM
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dogdays Offline
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Challenger451 that is just wishful thinking. Aluminum has no fatigue strength or limit. Steel does, and even that idea is changing.

R.

Re: Aluminum rods on street?? [Re: dogdays] #1128295
12/07/11 08:49 PM
12/07/11 08:49 PM

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UUmmmm... like we were saying----Run them, have fun, melt tires.
Too much science , not enough rubber burning here.
And that opinion is based on experience.

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