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Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
#1109874
11/09/11 12:24 AM
11/09/11 12:24 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I want to build a twin turbo set up for a 416ci... I am looking at a pair of GT35... compressor A/R 70, turbine A/R 82... these are on a T3 flange..... what do you think for a street/strip combo... all I want is a MAX of 10 psi more like 7 psi... I still need to find the comp map on this unit 
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: turbobitt]
#1109876
11/09/11 10:12 AM
11/09/11 10:12 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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I know you said twin turbo, I would strongly recomend single turbo. Turbo selection should be based on HP goal and not boost. Why only 7-10 lbs boost ? A 416 inch motor can easily spool an 88mm turbo. This would give you plenty of room to grow when you decide to turn it up. The new Borg Warner 88, or any of there new stuff has some impressive flow numbers for there size. If you can keep the heads on, you can make about 1600HP with that turbo and still be very streetable. If you plan on running this with good gas, I would start with at least 9:1 compression. What are your plans for fuel managment ? Allan G.
I cant go under 10.0 due to license issues(health)
and I want to stay with either E-85 OR regular gas...
I know this will go under 10.0 at the track but I
will have some fun on the street...I was planning
on doing a carb (blow through)
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1109877
11/09/11 11:43 AM
11/09/11 11:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760
Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760
Southington Ct.
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I don't have any experience with twins but the T3 flange seems a little small for a bank of 4 on a large displacement small block. But then again, a single T-4 flange turbo would get the job done with your goals.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: turbobitt]
#1109878
11/09/11 11:51 AM
11/09/11 11:51 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
I don't have any experience with twins but the T3 flange seems a little small for a bank of 4 on a large displacement small block. But then again, a single T-4 flange turbo would get the job done with your goals.
I was looking at the map on the GT35 and it looks a
bit small for my plans... looks like a GT40 or something
like it would be better suited... doing the math I
have 34 lbs of air at my max rpm(per bank)... I just
dont want these to spool up too soon
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1109879
11/09/11 01:17 PM
11/09/11 01:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,256
IL
furious70
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2006
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IL
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IMO T3's on a 416" are small. I have T3's on my 383 (see my ongoing thread in here) and the back pressure testing I've done should be enough to shy you away. Twin T4's or a single T6 fit what you want to do better.
70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: furious70]
#1109882
11/09/11 06:29 PM
11/09/11 06:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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Quote:
how much HP will it take for you to go 10.01 in that car? Randy might be right, those turbos on a warmed over 360 might get you there 
If your asking me how much will it take to go 10.0, I
can do it now on motor I believe... by rights it
should run 9.80 on motor BUT I want to TT it for
some bling factor and pick it up some
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: wrenchinrandy]
#1109883
11/09/11 06:32 PM
11/09/11 06:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I am not going to dispute the other opinions expressed here, but offer my experience. I have a 451 with two T3/T4 hybrids. I have not done any backpressure or temperature testing and probably won't. The car is strictly a street driver and has proven to be a blast. On the dyno earlier this summer it made 729HP at the wheels and managed 18 MPG on the drive home. I have no doubt the combination could easily be improved by a better turbo selection as well as a few other changes. Ultimately though the OP just wanted to know if those turbos would work, and bottom line, yes they will. Just realize that there may be better choices.
What were the specs on those T3/T4 turbos... trim
and A/R plus when do they start making pressure(rpm)
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: wrenchinrandy]
#1109886
11/09/11 09:37 PM
11/09/11 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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Quote:
My turbos are .85 A/R turbines with P trim wheels. They have 60-1 compressors. There is boost available from ~2200 RPM. When I was in the planning/building stages of my setup, I could find very little information on turbine side selection. I went with the hybrids on the recomendation of a friend who was playing with GM F-bodies. His rationale was the Buick GN housing is a three bolt flange with a round inducer as opposed to the four bolt rectangular flange of the T4. The idea was that fabrication would be easier. Now that my build is complete, suddenly I have seen a variety of information on turbine selection. Ultimately, I tend to agree with the other people who have posted on this thread. I know there is a lot of potential even in my mild combination available with a better turbo selection. In the end though, I have a 700+ RWHP street car. I am not convinced the hassle of re-addressing and rebuilding would be useable on the street or really worth my time.
With your set up what are you running for boost pressure
and what will it max out pressure wise.... thanks guys
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: wrenchinrandy]
#1109889
11/10/11 12:32 PM
11/10/11 12:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,256
IL
furious70
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,256
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Quote:
Mine is limited to 10 lbs and 5700 RPM. On the dyno it saw 12 lbs and 6000 RPM on one pull but didn't make any more power than it did at the lower boost level. I have a very small roller cam and that is one of the "other things" I mentioned in addition to a more capable turbo. As I said there are several things holding my overall output back, but IMO I am better off working on optimizing my chassis to use the 700 I already have, rather than going back into the system for more power. Right now though, due in part to that mild cam, it is an extremely docile street motor with good economy. And when I take it off the leash, I am completely content to have 700 HP available.
I don't disagree with you for the application at all, as I've done the exact same with my car, though my goal is to eventually only work up to 500hp with a very mild 383. Having a low boost threshold for a big heavy street car makes for a very satisfying ride. I agree with you that the responsiveness is worth more to me than another 100hp up top that I'd never be able to use/would start breaking the rest of the car.
For a race car, the advice is different though.
70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
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Re: Let Me Pass This By You Turbo Guys
[Re: turbobitt]
#1109893
11/11/11 12:26 AM
11/11/11 12:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760
Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760
Southington Ct.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Mine is limited to 10 lbs and 5700 RPM. On the dyno it saw 12 lbs and 6000 RPM on one pull but didn't make any more power than it did at the lower boost level. I have a very small roller cam and that is one of the "other things" I mentioned in addition to a more capable turbo. As I said there are several things holding my overall output back, but IMO I am better off working on optimizing my chassis to use the 700 I already have, rather than going back into the system for more power. Right now though, due in part to that mild cam, it is an extremely docile street motor with good economy. And when I take it off the leash, I am completely content to have 700 HP available.
Not trying to dispute your performance but a pair of those turbos should not run out of breath that fast. Do you think you had some valve float or fuel issues ?
Allan G.
Interested in why you say that? With a boost threshold of 2200rpm being out of breath and choking the engine at 5000rpm is not surprising at all.
My comment is based on the fact that each turbo can support 600+ HP when pushed hard enough. Twin should be double ?? Not claiming to be an expert but have personally seen a sigle application make over 600 HP. Maybe something to do with bakpressure limitations or something ?
Allan G.
Furious70
I was looking at your build and it appears that your turbo is not a 60-1 compressor but maybe a 60 Trim wheel which is different. You Reference a turbocoupe turbo and would not have a 60mm wheel. I can see that this turbo is smaller than I thought.
Allan G.
Edit - I'm confusing Wrenchinandy set=up with Furious70, sorry.
Last edited by turbobitt; 11/11/11 12:31 AM.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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