Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1088123
10/06/11 01:17 PM
10/06/11 01:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Plumb Wired Offline
master
Plumb Wired  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Quote:

I've seen on sprint car engines and drag race engines
that have a #6 or #8 coolant line running to the area
between the center exhaust ports... I didnt do it,
I felt there wasnt a reason to on my engine





Good point! On my boosted combo we pulled water from front, middle & rear. On my nitrous combo just front & rear.


RIP Monte Smith

aka: OutlawFish
'98 Bickel Dodge Dakota PST
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: Plumb Wired] #1088124
10/06/11 10:15 PM
10/06/11 10:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441 Offline
master
Leon441  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
I can't remember the exact figures. Small block Mopar has a larger bore spacing than the Chevie for sure. So this may not be as big a deal.

I prefer reverse cooling with #16 water lines entering the center core plug hole on the block. This will not be possible on your block Kenny as it is filled. The way to go is run your combo on alcohol. No intercooler and you can control the fuel curve on any cylinder you think there is a problem with.

Leon


Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: Leon441] #1088125
10/07/11 12:04 AM
10/07/11 12:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
I called on ProLline for many reasons but mainly because they can build and tune the entire engine In House. I may go back with Uratchko, IF he has the room on his list. Last I heard from him he wasn't taking any new customers until he caught up with his Freshen-Ups.

ProLine even admittedly doesn't know SBMopars,(they build some crazy Hemis though) and rather build on the side of caution.

I did let them know about the cooling port between the center cylinders that usually isn't usually used by N/A engines.

As far as Alcohol, They won't build an Alcohol motor without billet heads. They said that to take advantage of the alcohol it would build enough power that it would cause issues with Cast heads (IE: cracks).

They suggested C or Q-16. They said with what I got that I wouldn't be able to take advantage of alcohol's benefits. On that same note I would have to upgrade my fuel system as well. I currently have the Magnafuel EFI 1000+hp system which they said should support about? 2000hp.

Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: Leon441] #1088126
10/07/11 12:29 AM
10/07/11 12:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
Quote:

I can't remember the exact figures. Small block Mopar has a larger bore spacing than the Chevie for sure. So this may not be as big a deal.




4.460" sound right?

Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088127
10/07/11 12:43 AM
10/07/11 12:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
Another question they asked that I missed!

What is the smallest bore that the heads would allow?

W9-RP with 2.25 Int Ported by AllPro.

Any guesses!!!

Sorry for all the questions that it seems I should be able to answer. I am in Afghanistan and my parts are at Bondo-Bob's shop.

Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088128
10/07/11 01:12 AM
10/07/11 01:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Plumb Wired Offline
master
Plumb Wired  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Quote:

Quote:

I can't remember the exact figures. Small block Mopar has a larger bore spacing than the Chevie for sure. So this may not be as big a deal.




4.460" sound right?




4.460" is correct


RIP Monte Smith

aka: OutlawFish
'98 Bickel Dodge Dakota PST
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: Plumb Wired] #1088129
10/07/11 07:48 AM
10/07/11 07:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
Thanks Mike!!

Couldn't find anything solid saying that the R3 still maintained the 4.460 BUT did find many of threads saying that the C&F guys were fussing because they of the extra bore spacing allowed to Mopar in classes that run small blocks.

Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088130
10/07/11 09:07 AM
10/07/11 09:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Plumb Wired Offline
master
Plumb Wired  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
If I remember correctly factory bore spacing on SBC is 4.40" and SBF is 4.38".


RIP Monte Smith

aka: OutlawFish
'98 Bickel Dodge Dakota PST
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088131
10/07/11 09:50 AM
10/07/11 09:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340 Offline
master
fishy340  Offline
master

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
Quote:

I called on ProLline for many reasons but mainly because they can build and tune the entire engine In House. I may go back with Uratchko, IF he has the room on his list. Last I heard from him he wasn't taking any new customers until he caught up with his Freshen-Ups.

ProLine even admittedly doesn't know SBMopars,(they build some crazy Hemis though) and rather build on the side of caution.

I did let them know about the cooling port between the center cylinders that usually isn't usually used by N/A engines.

As far as Alcohol, They won't build an Alcohol motor without billet heads. They said that to take advantage of the alcohol it would build enough power that it would cause issues with Cast heads (IE: cracks).

They suggested C or Q-16. They said with what I got that I wouldn't be able to take advantage of alcohol's benefits. On that same note I would have to upgrade my fuel system as well. I currently have the Magnafuel EFI 1000+hp system which they said should support about? 2000hp.


steve morris race engines would do my turbo

Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: fishy340] #1088132
10/07/11 11:35 AM
10/07/11 11:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
I always seem to forget about Steve Morris.

I may give him a shout and see what he has to say as well.

Thanks for the reminder.

Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088133
10/07/11 01:26 PM
10/07/11 01:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441 Offline
master
Leon441  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Not a turbo guy and don't claim to be....

That said, if I were building a turbo these are some items to keep in mind on my short list.

Exhaust valves open against cylinder pressure on any engine more so on turbo. Heavy exhaust rocker arms and pushrods and larger valve stems.

Chance for a lot more heat as mentioned in the exhaust valve. You have .030" more area to center to play with. This will be smaller depending on your valve to bore centerline. But, this you have over the chevies and fords.

Kick butt CFE NA drag race heads would not be preffered in this application. Thin intake port walls, small stems. No routing for water in center of head. Circle track heads are probably the best used head available.

Build stroke into your engine for a user freindly engine when not making boost. Kenny already has 4.125" stroke and a 9.590" block height.

I see no reason to have the best intake available for NA racing with a turbo. Personally would think a smaller plenum would work better with multipoint fuel injection and boost. This is just a personal thought as I have no experience whatsoever with this.

If I were doing one of these I would be calling the guys who ran Comp with an Arrington setup years ago. Would have to look up their names. They ran a Daytona and then an Avenger. I think the Avenger had a W7 or W8 head. They knew their stuff 15 years ago.

Leon


Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: Leon441] #1088134
10/07/11 11:52 PM
10/07/11 11:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
We're on the same train of thought.

ProLine has already told me they would have to get rid of the Titanium Exhaust valves that came with the heads. And install Steel Guides. They just won't hold up to the heat and pressure. Inconel would be better but not worth the $$$$ for my application.

I hear this one time and again. Flow Numbers don't mean any or everything which is somewhat true. BUT with boosted applications you want a head that will allow the air through and as much in volume as possible therefore Flow Numbers hold some weight. Granted everyone's numbers for the same heads will vary, so it's better to find heads that have a proven track record.

Yep stroke is your friend on a Boost motor and Compression is as well. Many guys are actually running 10-11.5:1 compression with 25-35psi Boost on race gas. Even more if they run alcohol.

Intakes only need to fit the heads. IE: Same port sizes and not be a restriction. Most of the guys running High-end intakes is because they have to. No decent Intakes to match their heads.

I like to think of it as flowing water in pipes under pressure. Open it up as much as possible and keep your flow and prevent any reversions.

There was a guy in Va. about 1-2 yrs ago, that has an Avenger that he put a 420-something R3 in with W9 heads and Blow Through Carb and 88 or 91mm Turbo made a 6.98sec 1/4mile pass first day of test&tune.

Let me know if you come up with the name of the Guys running the Arrington stuff from way-back.

Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088135
10/08/11 01:48 AM
10/08/11 01:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Plumb Wired Offline
master
Plumb Wired  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Quote:

We're on the same train of thought.

ProLine has already told me they would have to get rid of the Titanium Exhaust valves that came with the heads. And install Steel Guides. They just won't hold up to the heat and pressure. Inconel would be better but not worth the $$$$ for my application.

I hear this one time and again. Flow Numbers don't mean any or everything which is somewhat true. BUT with boosted applications you want a head that will allow the air through and as much in volume as possible therefore Flow Numbers hold some weight. Granted everyone's numbers for the same heads will vary, so it's better to find heads that have a proven track record.

Yep stroke is your friend on a Boost motor and Compression is as well. Many guys are actually running 10-11.5:1 compression with 25-35psi Boost on race gas. Even more if they run alcohol.

Intakes only need to fit the heads. IE: Same port sizes and not be a restriction. Most of the guys running High-end intakes is because they have to. No decent Intakes to match their heads.

I like to think of it as flowing water in pipes under pressure. Open it up as much as possible and keep your flow and prevent any reversions.

There was a guy in Va. about 1-2 yrs ago, that has an Avenger that he put a 420-something R3 in with W9 heads and Blow Through Carb and 88 or 91mm Turbo made a 6.98sec 1/4mile pass first day of test&tune.

Let me know if you come up with the name of the Guys running the Arrington stuff from way-back.




His name is Bill Harris, he runs OSBA (Outlaw Small Block Association) http://www.osbadrag.com/index.html
He has a phone number on the contacts tab on their website.


RIP Monte Smith

aka: OutlawFish
'98 Bickel Dodge Dakota PST
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: Plumb Wired] #1088136
10/08/11 02:27 AM
10/08/11 02:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
Thanks Mike!!

Found the Avenger.

I also like their Rules Much better than many other places.

Last edited by DakFink; 10/08/11 02:45 AM.
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088137
10/08/11 02:58 AM
10/08/11 02:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 614
Michigan
G
Get-X Offline
mopar
Get-X  Offline
mopar
G

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 614
Michigan
Ritter and Weber kicked a$$ in Comp way back but don't remember if it was boosted?


'65 Belvedere
'68 GTX
'57 Dodge pickup
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088138
10/08/11 03:34 AM
10/08/11 03:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
I stand Corrected!!

Bill Harris's Avenger is 412cui and made an 1/8th pass at 4.75sec 152mph last month during Testing at Richmond Dragway.

http://www.candsspecialties.com/running.html

1/2 way down the page.

Last edited by DakFink; 10/08/11 03:37 AM.
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088139
10/08/11 04:07 AM
10/08/11 04:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Plumb Wired Offline
master
Plumb Wired  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,813
Blue Ridge, VA
Quote:

I stand Corrected!!

Bill Harris's Avenger is 412cui and made an 1/8th pass at 4.75sec 152mph last month during Testing at Richmond Dragway.

http://www.candsspecialties.com/running.html

1/2 way down the page.





Not taking anything away from Bill's car it's flying but keep in mind this a big tire car, not on 10.5's.


RIP Monte Smith

aka: OutlawFish
'98 Bickel Dodge Dakota PST
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: Plumb Wired] #1088140
10/08/11 10:53 AM
10/08/11 10:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
Quote:

Quote:

I stand Corrected!!

Bill Harris's Avenger is 412cui and made an 1/8th pass at 4.75sec 152mph last month during Testing at Richmond Dragway.

http://www.candsspecialties.com/running.html

1/2 way down the page.





Not taking anything away from Bill's car it's flying but keep in mind this a big tire car, not on 10.5's.




Do you by chance know how BIG? 10.5W or even bigger?

Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: DakFink] #1088141
10/08/11 03:57 PM
10/08/11 03:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441 Offline
master
Leon441  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
I know the guy who helped Bill put the car together. He races imports now.

Bill's car has a big tire on the rear. I forget whos car it was but I don't think it was an X prostock. He runs a 32X14 if I remember right. He also runs a Bruno with a three speed G force behind it. That brought the car to life when he ran NA. He broke input shafts when he went turbo and had to upgrade the converter and everything. Bill runs a real soft tuneup and can go up any greaseball track. I'd bet he could switch over to a 10.5 tire and go up the track with no issues. The car is just not violent at all. For what the car is it is heavy. I think he is around 2,650 with him in it. For a all tube car with lexan that is heavy in my opinion. He runs a raised port W9 head with a 772 intake manifold. To my knowledge Bill has never had to work on the engine from running on kill. So if he really went for it he could go a lot faster from what I have seen.

Leon


Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
Re: R3 cylinder wall thickness [Re: Leon441] #1088142
10/08/11 11:44 PM
10/08/11 11:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
D
DakFink Offline OP
mopar
DakFink  Offline OP
mopar
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
Quote:

I know the guy who helped Bill put the car together. He races imports now.

Bill's car has a big tire on the rear. I forget whos car it was but I don't think it was an X prostock. He runs a 32X14 if I remember right. He also runs a Bruno with a three speed G force behind it. That brought the car to life when he ran NA. He broke input shafts when he went turbo and had to upgrade the converter and everything. Bill runs a real soft tuneup and can go up any greaseball track. I'd bet he could switch over to a 10.5 tire and go up the track with no issues. The car is just not violent at all. For what the car is it is heavy. I think he is around 2,650 with him in it. For a all tube car with lexan that is heavy in my opinion. He runs a raised port W9 head with a 772 intake manifold. To my knowledge Bill has never had to work on the engine from running on kill. So if he really went for it he could go a lot faster from what I have seen.

Leon




The video I saw of his pass last month looked like he was baby-ing it off the line out to about 60ft. It came of the line nice and smooth.

Yeah I could see him making the same kind of passes on a 10.5W (33x11.6-15)or even True 10.5.

Do you know who did the engine work?

Not sure what he has the Turbo turned up to on the track BUT he was putting 1140+hp to the tires on the Dyno with somewhere around 7-10psi of boost and under 8000rpms If I remember correctly.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1