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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: Steve Barton]
#1084853
09/30/11 10:53 AM
09/30/11 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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How else would you be able to side load the support other than pushing sideways on the T/O bearing... you have a good pilot bearing and I assume the input shaft bearings are ok, so that leaves very little to look at 
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: JohnRR]
#1084854
09/30/11 11:11 AM
09/30/11 11:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 151
Canada BC
Steve Barton
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Canada BC
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Quote:
Quote:
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Did you have any luck having the manufacturer take a look at your assembly.
It sure looks like the short lever is riding on the very edge of the to bearing and I cannot see how it wouldn't side load and cause your candlestick problems.
Any drag with clutch disengagement or anything or just when it's "broke". That's a Youngblood unit correct?
Yes it is robs clutch, he does not want me to send him the clutch back, his opinion is that the short arm has nothing to do with my problem but he is sending me a lever to make me happy.
He may not think it's causing the retainer to break but it is definitely an issue because the leverage with the shorter arm is different than the other 2 .
I 100% agree but Rob said not a chance, that the short arm will do no harm and will not change the geometry at all.
My reply was, I can not believe what I am hearing from you, I have not herd back from him, I hope I have not screwed my self from getting my lever or any other service from Rob in the future. What the hell am I going to do with a $2500.00 clutch ass I can't use.
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1084855
09/30/11 11:22 AM
09/30/11 11:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 151
Canada BC
Steve Barton
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OP
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Canada BC
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Quote:
How else would you be able to side load the support
other than pushing sideways on the T/O bearing... you
have a good pilot bearing and I assume the input shaft
bearings are ok, so that leaves very little to look at
That is exactly write, the input shaft would have to move over a long way's to even touch the retainer. if it had there would signs of that in rubs, whipped out bearings or a very badly bent crank. none of which I have.
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: Steve Barton]
#1084856
09/30/11 11:24 AM
09/30/11 11:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,794
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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master
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Posts: 8,794
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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I'm very much NOT an expert, but I would be interested in knowing how that a short arm could NOT cause a side load on the retainer. When releasing the clutch, I would think that it isn't a straight motion, as in the arm moving away from the bearing as well as towards the clutch, which would make me think at its depressed point it would actually be beside the bearing. If it bound it seems appears to me INSTANT breakage on a brittle(relatively) cast part not designed for side loads. Just what I see. I will go back to my lurking now. Carry on...
1969 Dart GTS 340
1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96
1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC
2015 Dodge Dart GT
2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: Steve Barton]
#1084857
09/30/11 12:23 PM
09/30/11 12:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 140
central pa
darted1
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member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 140
central pa
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like others said check pilot bushing/bearing while in there.
ED M
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: Steve Barton]
#1084859
09/30/11 01:39 PM
09/30/11 01:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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I had the 18 spline and mine was doing the same thing. When I would set the trans in,it liked about 1/4"-1/2" sliding all the way up which I did not think was a problem as tightening the bolts pull it up. WRONG the shaft for some reason was about a 1/4" to long.It was fine with the 23 spline shaft,but not the 18 spline and after changing clutch ass. and trying everything else it dawned on me to find out why it was not freely sliding all the way up. I took the hand grinder and shorten it up 1/4" and no more problems. That may not be your problem but it is worth checking.  PS It would break bearing retainers as fast as I could put them in.And in the same place everytime like yours is doing.
Last edited by MRMOPAR570; 09/30/11 01:42 PM.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: Steve Barton]
#1084860
09/30/11 02:18 PM
09/30/11 02:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 608
TN
1DGEMAN
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 608
TN
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After looking at your pics. It appears you are using the wrong throw out bearing. The bearing is supposed to ride on the hump. How far are you depressing the clutch? The end of that one lever looks like it was damaged when your retainer broke. Some of your pics look misleading because of the angle you took them. How about pulling out the levers and laying them side by side and taking a pic? Also it looks like you have the disc in upside down.Is the face of the bell housing parallel with the back of the block?
Real Men shift for themselves
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: mshred]
#1084863
09/30/11 07:46 PM
09/30/11 07:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 608
TN
1DGEMAN
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 608
TN
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I am always amazed at what happens in these forums. So many of you form opinions with only half the info. Why throw Rob under the bus when you probably don't even know him. I looked at these pics and can tell you that the angles they were taken at create an illusion of what really is. You want to compare levers take them off and set them side by side. The throw out bearing is supposed to ride on the hump not on the end of the lever. Obviously Steve used the wrong throw out bearing something any stick guy would check. One lever in the pics looks damaged probably when the retainer broke. If the travel of the throw out bearing and clutch linkage is not set up correctly and you use too small of a bearing it could be possible to over angle the levers and force the bearing off the hump and over the end of the fingers.
Real Men shift for themselves
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1084864
09/30/11 09:37 PM
09/30/11 09:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 151
Canada BC
Steve Barton
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OP
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Posts: 151
Canada BC
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Quote:
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like others said check pilot bushing/bearing while in there.
First off the pilot bearing is not even in play here with this type of failure Second issue here is that Rob at Advance should step up and just eat the shipping and take it back and put the correct arms in this time  Now Tim Hyatt is a member here but I doubt he will reply to this thread out of professional courtesy.
You paid top dollar for a custom built clutch and the levers aren't even close to being correct  Looks like HRS will be getting more customers soon after this episode 
You can't charge full race money for second rate service and maintain new clients for long.
Rant over now back to the issue,you should really consider a larger O.D. TO bearing once you get the correct arms installed on the plate.
Either way if you need anything just drop a PM 
Gus 
finally some one sees it my way and has touched the real issue at hand, thank you
P.s I am having the 18 spline TO bearing fitted to my 23 spline TO bearing collar, it will be centered on the humps and will solve all issues. Rob has sent the new lever and I will be sending the short one to him for inspection.
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: 1DGEMAN]
#1084865
09/30/11 09:58 PM
09/30/11 09:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 151
Canada BC
Steve Barton
OP
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OP
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Posts: 151
Canada BC
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Quote:
I am always amazed at what happens in these forums. So many of you form opinions with only half the info. Why throw Rob under the bus when you probably don't even know him. I looked at these pics and can tell you that the angles they were taken at create an illusion of what really is. You want to compare levers take them off and set them side by side. The throw out bearing is supposed to ride on the hump not on the end of the lever. Obviously Steve used the wrong throw out bearing something any stick guy would check. One lever in the pics looks damaged probably when the retainer broke. If the travel of the throw out bearing and clutch linkage is not set up correctly and you use too small of a bearing it could be possible to over angle the levers and force the bearing off the hump and over the end of the fingers.
For your info I have not thrown rob under the bus, I have given him every chance to be understanding and fare with me, and who are you to say anything about what is the real story. I have sent Rob many more pics from all different angles. I will be posting the levers side by side to show the real difference.
This picture is taken in the press with .080" disc clearance as it would be in the car clutch disengaged, as you see the longer lever is fine. Rob him self said he has not had trouble with this clutch and that bearing before since it is the only 23 spline bearing there is, so no dude this is not the wrong bearing and would have worked just fine if the dam lever was the write one. I am as said already going to a bigger bearing that will work even better.
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: kilroy]
#1084869
09/30/11 10:20 PM
09/30/11 10:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 151
Canada BC
Steve Barton
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member
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 151
Canada BC
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Quote:
Quote:
this is how the short arm looks.
In the third pic (the close up of the t/o bearing and plate) is it an illusion or does the T/o bearing have a shinny band around it? Possibly from the finger (im sorry, the LEVER) riding on the bearing?
No its just a shadow, also the clutch and bearing are spinning at the same speed but it does have some lines on it possibly from spipping past the edge.
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Re: 4 spd 833 help, braking front bearing retainer.
[Re: Ben7701]
#1084872
10/01/11 11:09 PM
10/01/11 11:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 151
Canada BC
Steve Barton
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OP
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Posts: 151
Canada BC
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Quote:
I know I have a lot of friends who bought Clutches From Advanced Clutches and as in all racing situations a person has to buy the whole package and they all tell me the owner knows what he is talking about . I do know that there is a special bearing for advanced clutches that must used , oh by the way I know that there is and never has been a warranty or guarantee on any racing part . I talked to some customers of advanced clutches and without a doubt the owner is one of the top authorities on racing clutches and is fair to 90% of his customers they other 10% have burned up their clutches by not listening to advanced clutches advice 
I also have heard nothing but good about Rob, that is why I bought the clutch from him, I have been in business for 27 years running an auto repair shop, 5 years of that was a performance shop, bean licenced for all 27 years. I have owned this car for 32 years. I no my car.
Rob never told me that there was a special bearing for Advanced clutches, in fact he told me the stock one is just fine that he has never had any trouble with them. If there was a package thing why was I not told about it, seems to me it would be a good up sell to ensure proper operation of his clutch. His web sit sees write on it all clutches are guaranteed.( defects ) Now you can't tell me you think that short arm is acceptable, not you not Rob not any body can convince me of it, nobody in the write mind would except this as a acceptable clutch. I set this clutch up to a tee of Robs instructions and phone calls, Emails and it never worked write, slipped on launch slipped in hi gear. So at the end of the day I will probable end up with a clutch that is worthless to me and $2500.00 in the hole.If I was not 1000s of miles away, me and this clutch would be be at his shop write now so I could show him first hand.
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Sorry, having one of those moments. 
