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440 running but not running great
#1082916
09/26/11 11:45 AM
09/26/11 11:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
wldgtx
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
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I have been working on this 440 for a while and got it to the point that it will run, decent but not great.
Now when it was first built it ran awesome!
Since going into the car, I have not been able to get it running great. There are probably several variables, but I think the most important is that the carb that was on the engine for the dyno runs was a carb that was supplied by the shop.
I have a new Holley 750 4150 (Dbl pumper) which I do not think is a problem, but is the only variable in the equation.
So, what I would like to ask, is if there is someone who is local to me that would be interested in giving me a hand with this since I cannot figure it out and I have tried and tried.
I have to believe that someone that knows these engines very well will be able to diagnose the situation.
Thanks, shoot me a PM or reply to this if available and interested.
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: wldgtx]
#1082919
09/26/11 04:21 PM
09/26/11 04:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Have you tuned the carburetor at all yet?
What about power valve, initial timing and what- how much vacuum do you have at idle?
4 speed or auto?
Mixture screws make any difference?
What's the plugs look like now, today.
Does it have headers? if it does I know it sucks to pull some plugs, I hate my 440 for that.
Last edited by Challenger 1; 09/26/11 04:23 PM.
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1082920
09/26/11 06:16 PM
09/26/11 06:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
wldgtx
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
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Quote:
Have you tuned the carburetor at all yet?
What about power valve, initial timing and what- how much vacuum do you have at idle?
4 speed or auto?
Mixture screws make any difference?
What's the plugs look like now, today.
Does it have headers? if it does I know it sucks to pull some plugs, I hate my 440 for that.
I have not tuned the carb yet... (not sure how) 
Not sure about vacuum on carb at idle
4 speed car
I have not played with the mixture screws yet simply because I am not strong with carb tuning (probably all it really needs).
Plugs look great, I checked them on Saturday
It does have headers, and yes it sucks to pull them, but since the engine was just built it is not that bad..
thanks, keep the questions coming...
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: wldgtx]
#1082921
09/26/11 06:31 PM
09/26/11 06:31 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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1] ask the shop that did the dyno, ask them if you can borrow the carb for a day or 2.
2] take it to that shop and have them tune it, and maybe teach you how to adjust the carb, etc.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: amxautox]
#1082923
09/26/11 06:35 PM
09/26/11 06:35 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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Buy a vacuum guage and read/look on YouTube on how to use it while adjusting the idle mixture screws and all.
Same for timing needs of an engine, street vs drag racing.
Buy a book on Holly carbs, great way to learn how to adjust and tune them.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1082924
09/26/11 07:39 PM
09/26/11 07:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
wldgtx
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
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Quote:
First pull all the plugs and make sure they are good, I don't care how long the motor ran.
Once your sure there good then fire it up and let it warm up.
Get yourself a timing light, a vacuum gauge, and screw driver.
Find out what the timing is at at idle, you want 15-18
What is the idle RPM?
How much vacuum you have at idle?
Then shut it off and check the power valve in the carb. I'd put a new/correct one in if you don't have a way to test it.
Get us some info and we can point you in the right direction.
Plugs look great, I just pulled them and they were all identical... they looked great.
(How much of different does the engine run warmed up?)
Timing at idle was about 15', I am guessing because the timing indicator on the car only goes to 10 before and 10 after, but I look at where I have it set to and it looks about 14'-16'
I need to get a vacuum gage to check vacuum at idle.
As far as the power valve is concerned, I am running a brand new out of the box 4150 series 750. Not sure why I would need a new power valve in a carburetor that literally was just fired up... but again this is why I am asking questions.
I am 99% sure that this is a situation of the car running very rich, due to the carb out of tune. The engine stumbles if I jump on it off of an idle... I will research tuning the carb, but please feel free to offer more suggestions.
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: wldgtx]
#1082925
09/26/11 07:50 PM
09/26/11 07:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Power valve is selected according to how much vacuum you have at idle. They can blow out if you have a backfire. How big of cam? Got to invest in a setback timing light so you can accurately time it. What kind of distributor are you running? 
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1082926
09/26/11 07:58 PM
09/26/11 07:58 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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What is a good brand of setback timing light? I need to get a fancy one this winter.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1082928
09/26/11 08:12 PM
09/26/11 08:12 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,666
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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Ya, mine has that plug in the bottom of the handle and it just drops off now and then. Pain in the butt when I'm trying to get something done. Mine isn't a dial type anyway and I want a dial type now.
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1082929
09/26/11 08:29 PM
09/26/11 08:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
wldgtx
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
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Quote:
Power valve is selected according to how much vacuum you have at idle. They can blow out if you have a backfire.
How big of cam?
Got to invest in a setback timing light so you can accurately time it.
What kind of distributor are you running?
Okay, I got it... BTW, I just watched the videos on tuning the Holley 4150... very cool and super informative. I had no idea.
The cam is a .519 mopar cam
I will buy a setback timing light ASAP.
Distributor is a stock Electronic ignition
BTW, I learned that "the 4150 provides little to no vacuum at idle off of the idle port" to not throw off the distributor for tuning I assume. Also, I noticed that I had an open vacuum port on the carb that I need to block off.
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1082931
09/26/11 08:54 PM
09/26/11 08:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
wldgtx
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
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Quote:
 That plugged vacuum will help a lot, couldn't run it with it open as you found out.
Good luck...That's a very cool stealth throttle bracket you have there. 
LOL... obviously that picture is not of the setup now, or else I also have a stealth battery too!
good eye!
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1082932
09/26/11 08:55 PM
09/26/11 08:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
imo, get rid of the DP carb. It's made for racing not so much for the street. They are very hard to get running 100% right on the street.
Wish you were closer...My 
psssplspt... 750DP is probably the best carb on the market. It can be used on SB abd BB form mild to semi-wild.
I'm not close but I suggest you do this.
1. Check your float levels
2. turn your mixture screws in all the way then back out 1 full turn
3. Unhook your vac advance and start the car.
4. trun the idle speed up to 2400rpm
5. Set your advance in full at 36*
6. back the idle down to 850 or so.
7. turn the mixture screws in/out until you get the best vacuum reading
8. Check initial timing, shold be between 15-20
9. Go for a blast
The 750 might need more jet, for mild 440 applications 76/82 might be a good place to start. 6.5pv and 31 squirters
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1082933
09/26/11 09:01 PM
09/26/11 09:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
wldgtx
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,222
Clarkston, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
imo, get rid of the DP carb. It's made for racing not so much for the street. They are very hard to get running 100% right on the street.
Wish you were closer...My
psssplspt... 750DP is probably the best carb on the market. It can be used on SB abd BB form mild to semi-wild.
I'm not close but I suggest you do this.
1. Check your float levels
2. turn your mixture screws in all the way then back out 1 full turn
3. Unhook your vac advance and start the car.
4. trun the idle speed up to 2400rpm
5. Set your advance in full at 36*
6. back the idle down to 850 or so.
7. turn the mixture screws in/out until you get the best vacuum reading
8. Check initial timing, shold be between 15-20
9. Go for a blast
The 750 might need more jet, for mild 440 applications 76/82 might be a good place to start. 6.5pv and 31 squirters
I have learned a lot and will test, I need to get a better timing light and a vacuum guage to test and tune properly.
BTW, the DVD suggested to turn the idle mixture screws out 1.5 turns to baseline the carb... doesnt matter I need a vauum gauge to do it right.
I forgot to mention earlier, but thank you Moparts!
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1082934
09/26/11 09:01 PM
09/26/11 09:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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(10) plug vac adv back in (11) at what speed (RPM) did the slots (total timing) max out at? 2400 or ?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 running but not running great
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1082935
09/26/11 09:20 PM
09/26/11 09:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
dustergirl340
Chicken Little
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Chicken Little
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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Quote:
psssplspt... 750DP is probably the best carb on the market. It can be used on SB abd BB form mild to semi-wild.
I'm not close but I suggest you do this.
1. Check your float levels
2. turn your mixture screws in all the way then back out 1 full turn
3. Unhook your vac advance and start the car.
4. trun the idle speed up to 2400rpm
5. Set your advance in full at 36*
6. back the idle down to 850 or so.
7. turn the mixture screws in/out until you get the best vacuum reading
8. Check initial timing, shold be between 15-20
9. Go for a blast
The 750 might need more jet, for mild 440 applications 76/82 might be a good place to start. 6.5pv and 31 squirters
 I LOVE my Holley DP and have run it on the street for years now. Do the above and learn to tune it...once you get it dialed in you will love it. Good luck.
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