Re: rods too wide???
[Re: 71440dart]
#1081779
09/27/11 02:17 PM
09/27/11 02:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
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Quote:
Quote:
we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
no, but i dont pay 350 dollars to change my oil weight either. i asked because i didnt know.
off topic: does a quart of 20-50 weigh the same as 5-20?
I suppose you remove your pistons after every 10 runs and scrape off the deposits to make sure its still "in balance" ? Nothing wrong with being anal... just don't go overboard.
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: RemCharger]
#1081780
09/27/11 02:33 PM
09/27/11 02:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 48 louisiana
71440dart
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 48
louisiana
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
no, but i dont pay 350 dollars to change my oil weight either. i asked because i didnt know.
off topic: does a quart of 20-50 weigh the same as 5-20?
I suppose you remove your pistons after every 10 runs and scrape off the deposits to make sure its still "in balance" ? Nothing wrong with being anal... just don't go overboard.
im not trying to be anal or difficult i just want what i paid for is all, i dont know so thats why i asked.
71 dodge dart race car,440/727 best so far: 11.23 @119
74 plymoth duster, 408SB/727
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: 71440dart]
#1081781
09/27/11 03:18 PM
09/27/11 03:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
no, but i dont pay 350 dollars to change my oil weight either. i asked because i didnt know.
off topic: does a quart of 20-50 weigh the same as 5-20?
I suppose you remove your pistons after every 10 runs and scrape off the deposits to make sure its still "in balance" ? Nothing wrong with being anal... just don't go overboard.
im not trying to be anal or difficult i just want what i paid for is all, i dont know so thats why i asked.
No big deal. I'm assuming you don't know who Jeff is. End result is... Send it all back and hopefully they will set you up properly. Or, clean the rods up and that will work too. The result will be the same, do what makes you sleep well.
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: donnie w]
#1081783
09/27/11 04:29 PM
09/27/11 04:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 48 louisiana
71440dart
OP
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louisiana
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i did call back and was told i needed to talk to dave about the balance, he would call me back, waited 5 hours and called and dave is gone for the day. and Donniew you must have had the first one cause they knew exactly what i was talking about when i called them.
71 dodge dart race car,440/727 best so far: 11.23 @119
74 plymoth duster, 408SB/727
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1081785
09/27/11 05:11 PM
09/27/11 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
have them cut the rods,,, but you dont have to rebalance
So your saying Jeff if I buy the crank from them for chevy rods I have to have my rods cut... BS... they should have cut the crank for chevy rods(dia and width)... I JUST went though this... the guy that cut my crank for chevy rods did the dia but forgot the width... I took it back to him and he cut the width(no charge) and said he was sorry for the screw up
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: donnie w]
#1081786
09/27/11 06:09 PM
09/27/11 06:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,013 Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,013
Finally a HUSKER again
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Quote:
I bought a 505 kit from them over a year ago and had the same problem and when I called and told them the rods were chrysler width and the crank was chevy width they didn't think I knew what I was talking about and said they would have to do some checking and call me back. They called back and said I was right and to send the rods back and they would cut the width to chevy size. The main reason I bought the kit from them was to avoid this kind of problem. Im thinkin they've only sold two of these kits in over a year or they would have corrected this problem.
It really bothers me that they argue, or belittle you and make you feel like the moron, when THEIR "kit" should be checked for this kind og thing. This problem tells me that they have never mocked the "kit" up at all, and just threw it together on paper. I can make a 550ci small block on paper too, but its making it fit in real life thats the issue.
I guess its better to deal with accual engine shops that a speed shop. Dave is getting beaten up here lately, and makes my scared to deal with them ever again.
Kasey
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1081787
09/27/11 06:54 PM
09/27/11 06:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752 detroit area
moderncylinder
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
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of course they should make it right,,, it should come out of the box ready to go... but it didnt... so fix it and move on the question was to rebalance,, no you dont need to do that i order rods big so i can cut them,,,,, i can do that so i dont mind...
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1081788
09/27/11 06:56 PM
09/27/11 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
I bought a 505 kit from them over a year ago and had the same problem and when I called and told them the rods were chrysler width and the crank was chevy width they didn't think I knew what I was talking about and said they would have to do some checking and call me back. They called back and said I was right and to send the rods back and they would cut the width to chevy size. The main reason I bought the kit from them was to avoid this kind of problem. Im thinkin they've only sold two of these kits in over a year or they would have corrected this problem.
It really bothers me that they argue, or belittle you and make you feel like the moron, when THEIR "kit" should be checked for this kind og thing. This problem tells me that they have never mocked the "kit" up at all, and just threw it together on paper. I can make a 550ci small block on paper too, but its making it fit in real life thats the issue.
I guess its better to deal with accual engine shops that a speed shop. Dave is getting beaten up here lately, and makes my scared to deal with them ever again.
Kasey
nothing wrong with grinding the rod width, you can acctually set your clearance where you want for better oil controll, to me that is better than being too wide (clearance) and have no way to correct it, I don't see this problem as a big deal, if you need a replacement rod then just have the new one ground to the same width as the old one.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: dartman366]
#1081789
09/27/11 07:21 PM
09/27/11 07:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,013 Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,013
Finally a HUSKER again
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I bought a 505 kit from them over a year ago and had the same problem and when I called and told them the rods were chrysler width and the crank was chevy width they didn't think I knew what I was talking about and said they would have to do some checking and call me back. They called back and said I was right and to send the rods back and they would cut the width to chevy size. The main reason I bought the kit from them was to avoid this kind of problem. Im thinkin they've only sold two of these kits in over a year or they would have corrected this problem.
It really bothers me that they argue, or belittle you and make you feel like the moron, when THEIR "kit" should be checked for this kind og thing. This problem tells me that they have never mocked the "kit" up at all, and just threw it together on paper. I can make a 550ci small block on paper too, but its making it fit in real life thats the issue.
I guess its better to deal with accual engine shops that a speed shop. Dave is getting beaten up here lately, and makes my scared to deal with them ever again.
Kasey
nothing wrong with grinding the rod width, you can acctually set your clearance where you want for better oil controll, to me that is better than being too wide (clearance) and have no way to correct it, I don't see this problem as a big deal, if you need a replacement rod then just have the new one ground to the same width as the old one.
Dartman, I agree, but my point was more related to how Hughes kits are NOT out of the box ready. I had a similar issue with mu A engine girdle, had to clearance the crap out of it. I do understand that everything should be checked for clearance and inspected before you run it, but how are you going to do that when you cant even get the rods on the crank. You can mic the rods and crank, but how about side clearance, or deck clearance, you cant.
Kasey
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1081790
09/27/11 08:16 PM
09/27/11 08:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I bought a 505 kit from them over a year ago and had the same problem and when I called and told them the rods were chrysler width and the crank was chevy width they didn't think I knew what I was talking about and said they would have to do some checking and call me back. They called back and said I was right and to send the rods back and they would cut the width to chevy size. The main reason I bought the kit from them was to avoid this kind of problem. Im thinkin they've only sold two of these kits in over a year or they would have corrected this problem.
It really bothers me that they argue, or belittle you and make you feel like the moron, when THEIR "kit" should be checked for this kind og thing. This problem tells me that they have never mocked the "kit" up at all, and just threw it together on paper. I can make a 550ci small block on paper too, but its making it fit in real life thats the issue.
I guess its better to deal with accual engine shops that a speed shop. Dave is getting beaten up here lately, and makes my scared to deal with them ever again.
Kasey
nothing wrong with grinding the rod width, you can acctually set your clearance where you want for better oil controll, to me that is better than being too wide (clearance) and have no way to correct it, I don't see this problem as a big deal, if you need a replacement rod then just have the new one ground to the same width as the old one.
Dartman, I agree, but my point was more related to how Hughes kits are NOT out of the box ready. I had a similar issue with mu A engine girdle, had to clearance the crap out of it. I do understand that everything should be checked for clearance and inspected before you run it, but how are you going to do that when you cant even get the rods on the crank. You can mic the rods and crank, but how about side clearance, or deck clearance, you cant.
Kasey
Kasey you can mic the journal width and measure the width of the pair of rod's for that journal and get a real close approximation of how much you need to remove, I am not saying the OP need's to just let it go cause it should of been correct in the first place,,I am saying that it is easily fixable, and mostly a inconvienience,sometimes that is worse than the repair. I also don't put a lot of faith in the idea of ready to run OOTB, I had some front suspension part's that claimed bolt on, no mod's required,, yeah right,, had to notch the K frame to install and have room to function.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#1081792
09/27/11 09:46 PM
09/27/11 09:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,932 NC
440Jim
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,932
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Quote:
You have Mopar width rods .
That is correct. Those rods are made for a Mopar crank journal that was ground down to BB Chevy diameter. Too wide for a crank made for proper width BB Chevy rods (+.100, +.200, etc).
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1081793
09/28/11 12:59 AM
09/28/11 12:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
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Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
Yep, no sweat on the balance issue. Sounds like they ( Hughes) is correcting their error, so - lettem do it and move on.
Fastest 300
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: Crizila]
#1081794
09/28/11 11:38 AM
09/28/11 11:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 48 louisiana
71440dart
OP
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louisiana
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just to make sure i understand this correctly. i was told that it will be 4-5 grams per rod and all the rods will be weight matched when done. so if you remove 4 grams per rod the balance is going to be the exact same as it is right now?
71 dodge dart race car,440/727 best so far: 11.23 @119
74 plymoth duster, 408SB/727
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Re: rods too wide???
[Re: 71440dart]
#1081795
09/29/11 03:24 PM
09/29/11 03:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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I would suggest doing some regooglesearch and learn a bit more about balancing. It comes down to a tolerance / and the further out from center, the more effect (rotational mass). What you're doing is closer to axis. Top engine builders can give you free advise on this. Oops too late, they already did.
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