Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B #108096
08/20/08 11:20 PM
08/20/08 11:20 PM

A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered
Anonymous OP
Unregistered
A



Does anybody have a picture of the correct color of the brake booster and master cylinder for a 70 b-body?

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B #108097
08/22/08 09:05 PM
08/22/08 09:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
master
Mastershake340  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Disc or drum?
Boosters were black regardless.
Disc master cylinders were painted black, the entire assembly.
Drum brake master cylinders had a thin gold colored plated cap. Conventional wisdom is that the bodies were cast iron. I've seen a number of NOS that where the bodies were ecoated black prior to machining during manufacture, and early original ones removed off cars where when you start to clean off the rust you find traces of this black coating, which leads me to believe that is actually what they were originally. However it seems that the masses are convinced they were bare cast iron and until any definitive proof comes forth (such as "lunchbox" parts or a clear color picture taken of that area of a new car 40 years ago) I'd go with bare cast iron to avoid getting in p***ing contests with those who already know everything and don't take kindly to any evidence that doesn't support what they know.

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B #108098
08/22/08 09:25 PM
08/22/08 09:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
B
b54406barrel Offline
master
b54406barrel  Offline
master
B

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
'70-LA, 6bbl drum brake RR. Cap had lost the gold color & looked stained so I bead blasted it & dusted it w/alum paint. Booster is original & still has anodized color. MC is bare metal, always has been. Hold down bolt & spreader bar have some kind of darker coating/anodizing.


Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: b54406barrel] #108099
08/22/08 10:04 PM
08/22/08 10:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
master
Mastershake340  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Casting in that picture is an aftermarket(Wagner), though the cap installed on it is an original. OEM Bendix did not have that protrusion on the front of the casting. Here is a picture of the front of an original Bendix.

4637019-12-11-04006.jpg (194 downloads)
Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: Mastershake340] #108100
08/22/08 10:14 PM
08/22/08 10:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
B
b54406barrel Offline
master
b54406barrel  Offline
master
B

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
Yes, I replaced it in 1980. Still have the orig one & it too, is bare metal. I can probably get a shot of it & the number too, if you'd like it.

Why did you think all boosters were black?

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: b54406barrel] #108101
08/22/08 10:48 PM
08/22/08 10:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
master
Mastershake340  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
The casting number on your original Bendix would either be 2225601, 2660809, or "AANF". If you have a '5601 your date code would be on the side of the casting. The '809 the date code is where shown in my end picture. It would be interesting to see if your date code matched up with your SPD, cast iron master cylinders often failed early on, and rebuilts would be sandblasted in the rebuilding process and thus be bare cast iron,
I'm not 100% on the booster color, I worked for an aftermarket brake company for a long time, and we had thousands of OEM samples that I looked at. However we didn't have booster samples so any knowledge I have of boosters was from outside of my former work. I know in '70 all disc brake cars had black painted boosters. I know E bodies all (with PB) had black painted boosters, and I believe that would be across the board. Though as I say I don't know that 100%.

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: Mastershake340] #108102
08/22/08 11:41 PM
08/22/08 11:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
B
b54406barrel Offline
master
b54406barrel  Offline
master
B

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
I'll dig around in the building this weekend & locate it & get the numbers. I still have it, moved shops about 16 years ago & I know I saw it then.

On the booster for my car, it's the original & has been off the firewall once, 2 years ago. I know this car since new & my memory is far from perfect but I'll guarantee I'd remember pulling that booster off before that. It was kind of a pain. I had a slow bleed off & tried to buy a kit from Dewey's but they wouldn't sell it due to liability, or that's what they said. Anyway, the finish on it was still very good (except small streak under MC, where it leaked on it, in 1980) so I didn't have them re-finish it when they repaired it. FWIW, the disc cars I've seen are painted black but, it's a different style booster, too.

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: b54406barrel] #108103
08/23/08 12:20 AM
08/23/08 12:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
master
Mastershake340  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
I'm always keeping an open mind and trying to learn. In my side business as a flight instructor there is a saying "a good pilot is always learning". I would add, a pilot who thinks he knows everything should not be allowed near an airplane. Too dangerous!
Same goes for restoration research. That's why I get so put off when someone argues with you and says they are "sure" of how something was 40 years ago. I wrote the only article written so far on OEM Mopar master cylinders in '05 (April Mopar Action), based on my research having an archive of original OEM master cylinders to examine at my old work (the only one of this style drum master cylinder we had was the newest sample, early samples had been discarded during a housecleaning several years before I started there. ) In it I said that drum brake master cylinders were bare metal. Soon after the article was published I came into possession of a vintage core, and when I started to clean off the surface rust I found black "ecoating" on the casting. Several months later I bought some early NOS samples that were black ecoated.
I would like my article to be 100% accurate but evidence I found later tends to lead me to believe it was not completely accurate.
I am just a scholar here on this subject, I have two Challengers, but they are both disc brake cars. I know what color their master cylinders should be! I just am interested in knowing for certain what these drum brake parts were "back in the day" and when I have brought up my evidence I get ripped on. I give up, she's a witch! The world actually is flat! Please don't kill me mob, I apologize and please forgive me for being stupid and questioning your consensus! The mob rules!
From what I have learned over the years, all '70 boosters were originally black. But I am open to new information and finding out if there were any exceptions to that. Certainly many '70 boosters were painted black. Were 100%???

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: Mastershake340] #108104
08/23/08 12:49 AM
08/23/08 12:49 AM

A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered
Anonymous OP
Unregistered
A



Thanks for the info guy, I really apreciate it.

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: Mastershake340] #108105
08/23/08 01:21 AM
08/23/08 01:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
B
b54406barrel Offline
master
b54406barrel  Offline
master
B

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
Gee, It's been a long-long time since flight school but the only one I remember is, 'there's old pilots & there's bold pilots...........'

Well, I know nothing of restoration. Sorry if I came across like a jerk. Actually, without getting my old MC in my hand & scraping through the corrosion, I won't swear it couldn't have had some color, somewhere on it. It was so rusty maybe it might have had some paint on it somewhere. I'm going to find out. But on the booster, it's always been that gold color from the dealer, not black. That one I'm 100% sure of. I think it has a tag on it. If there's a part/date # somewhere on it you want me to look for (without taking it off the car!) let me know where it is. I'll be glad to.

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: b54406barrel] #108106
08/23/08 10:44 AM
08/23/08 10:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
master
Mastershake340  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Sorry if I came across as having a 'tude toward you, that certainly wasn't my intention and you are not who I was complaining about. I have become a little sensitive because of past experiences where I get shot down by people here, sometimes based on their theories and rationalizations that don't hold water from a manufacturing prospective (been there, done that, worked 14-1/2 years in the brake cylinder manufacturing area). I just would like people to keep an open mind here based on new evidence I found and have a dialogue to research what was actually correct on these master cylinders. I hope someday a "lunchbox" example surfaces, or a good clear color picture someone took under the hood of their car 40 years ago when it was new. Someone telling me they had an unrestored car 25 years ago and the master cylinder was bare metal doesn't really prove anything. Many of these would go bad early on and low mileage is no proof that every part on an unrestored car was the one it rolled off the line with. The fact that some Chrysler parts sold at the parts counter were painted black to prevent corrosion, even though on the assembly line this part was bare metal doesn't mean that same thing was done with master cylinders. Being objective means keeping an open mind to all new information, not using whatever reasoning that one can come up by pulling something out of the air to shoot something down!
I see why "BeepBeep" doesn't share his vast wealth of knowledge of correct parts and finishes much on this board any longer, who needs getting ripped on when you are just sharing the results of countless hours of your research........
In the meantime, this is the only vintage picture I have found, from a '69 road test of an A12 Bee. If only this picture was in color!!

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: Mastershake340] #108107
08/23/08 11:10 AM
08/23/08 11:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,158
God's Country - Etowah, TN.
A34 Offline
top fuel
A34  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,158
God's Country - Etowah, TN.
A couple of things to consider in this discussion:

1) Chrysler had multiple vendors. Their engineering drawings gave specs, but depending on the part there was leeway on the finishes. I'm not saying it applies here, just pointing out a possibility based on other Chrysler drawings I've seen.

2) Finishes and/or markings on production line parts were sometimes different than parts counter parts. A part number from 1970 might not look the same if you ordered it in 1977 or 1987. Same number, still from Chrysler, but different. They do that all the time. "Superceded parts." So, even "NOS" units are suspect based on build date of the part.

Mastershake 340 is right about a nice color picture from the era would help. Or maybe one of the vendors on this board that reproduces parts licensed from Chrysler could pull an engineering drawing and tell us what it says. That would help.

I have two 69 cars. One with power disc and one with manual drum. So, it interests me as to what should be correct. But, I'll have to say that I don't like the Black painted m/c's. Something just doesn't look right about them. Kinda cheesy looking in my humble opinion.


God Bless America, Our Troops and Their Families !

DEO VINDICE
Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: A34] #108108
08/23/08 11:41 AM
08/23/08 11:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
master
Mastershake340  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
At least on the vendor issue, there was only one for master cylinders, Bendix. For the drum brake MC's in question, there are several different casting numbers. And the date codes are in different locations. This brings questions to my mind as to why. Given the large number of these required (it was used on just about all Chrysler drum brake cars from '67-'70) I suspect Bendix manufactured these in multiple plants to meet the volume required, and perhaps the different plants used different casting numbers and date coding procedures? It is even possible one plant e-coated their parts and the other didn't. However, the first ecoated sample I found had the '809 casting number, and I subsequently came into several NOS ones that were ecoated that had the '5601 number.
Someday hopefully information will surfact that will sort this whole issue out. In the meantime at least most people now know what type master cylinders are correct for their Mopar restorations. Not too many years back you'd see a large variety of cylinders on otherwise well restored cars, now many I see at shows and magazines have the correct one, and the ones that don't, the owners tell me they are looking for the proper one to install on their car.
Here is the first one I found that I found traces of the black under the surface rust.

4637846-12-11-04008.jpg (156 downloads)
Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: Mastershake340] #108109
08/23/08 06:16 PM
08/23/08 06:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
B
b54406barrel Offline
master
b54406barrel  Offline
master
B

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
Haven't been able to make it to my building today to look for MC, hopefully tomorrow evening.

I had lunch today w/a friend who bought in fall 1969, a '70 cuda. 383/4spd, etc., and it had, power drum brakes. He has pics of car but doubts he has any of engine compartment. It was just an orange engine w/a big air cleaner. He said it had a gold booster & was quite sure of that. As to the MC, his inclination was it was bare metal as it had surface rust on it when he traded it off but no way he could remember for sure one way or the other. So, no help there.

I pulled out a 12/69 motor trend w/a comparison between a; CJ torino, LS-6 & 440+6 RR. I posted one of the pics below. The picture is pretty good, my scan, not-so-good. Even though its B&W it definitely shows the MC & booster as black w/motor side exit & is a disc brake car. Anyway, that helps substantiate the black/black on disc brake cars.

This test car has an LA dealer plate on it, which is where the mag states they got the car, from a local dealer. I never noticed it before but, it's a great reference shot for what decals go on the air cleaner of a 6bbl., AG car. Also distributor, mark on firewall, wiring, etc. Also, it has the shielded air cleaner, as my LA built & sold car does, with the AG. AG cars should not have the shield but that proves at least 2 did. Mopar was not too consistent, it looks like to me.

I'll post my MC info as soon as I can.


Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: Mastershake340] #108110
08/25/08 11:28 PM
08/25/08 11:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
B
b54406barrel Offline
master
b54406barrel  Offline
master
B

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
Mastershake340,

Holy cow, I have tons of old junk, er, treasures. Somebody's going to have a mess to clean out one of these days!
Can you please tell me the best way to proceed cleaning this thing up to see if I can find some paint? It's worse than I remember but probably has picked up more rust since I pulled it. Thank you.




Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: b54406barrel] #108111
08/26/08 12:57 AM
08/26/08 12:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340 Offline
master
Mastershake340  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
You and me both, parts collection wise! I have parts from my T/A restoration spread out in just about every room in the house at this point.
I'd use a hand wire brush and carefully brush at it to see what you find under the rust. Media blasting is the best way to clean up a casting and make it look fresh but that will take off any original paint or coatings.
Look at the front of the casting and see if you can find the date code, that will at least give you an idea if that is the original one your car was born with.

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: Mastershake340] #108112
08/26/08 11:10 AM
08/26/08 11:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
B
b54406barrel Offline
master
b54406barrel  Offline
master
B

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,054
USA
Wish I had parts organized like that. Most of it's from z/28's, corvette's, chevelle's, gto's, 442's, some FE, etc. 40+ years of junk. Have more boxes of mopar stuff than I thought, though. Boy, stuff accumulates! Hopefully I'll die & somebody else will have to deal with it!
Leaving for a little diving trip but, I will work on that thing when I get back. There aren't any numbers/letters on the front but there is a '9' and a letter, either 'R' or 'T', maybe? Is there a 'double-secret' decoder site to go to for MC date codes? Thanks, again.

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B #108113
08/26/08 12:40 PM
08/26/08 12:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
Quote:

Thanks for the info guy, I really apreciate it.




what info , you didn't answer the question you were asked ??

DISC OR DRUM , there is a DIFFERENCE ...

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B [Re: JohnRR] #108114
08/26/08 12:56 PM
08/26/08 12:56 PM

A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered
Anonymous OP
Unregistered
A



My car is Disc

Re: Power brakes booster and master cylinder color 70-B #108115
08/26/08 08:55 PM
08/26/08 08:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
Quote:

My car is Disc




then your booster , master cylinder and it's cover were ALL PAINTED BLACK ...

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1