FWIW, Old vs New 440 Short Block details - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech FWIW, Old vs New 440 Short Block details

Print Thread

FWIW, Old vs New 440 Short Block details #1079218 09/20/11 11:52 AM 09/20/11 11:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	In case this may be of interest to anyone, here are the details of my rebuild-in-progress RB 452 and the new RB 451 build-up. The 452 is a basic freshen-up of the MoPig's engine in conjunction w/ switching from the old Stage VI heads and solid flat-tappet cam to ported Victor heads and a small roller. The 451 is a new engine I'm almost done collecting parts for, since the 452 is now on it's 4th (re)build... and nothing lasts forever. Neither one is anything special; the 452 has already been the foundation for a streetable 10-second combination. The main differences are the 451 is getting a stronger crank and will have a lighter bob weight by about 140 grams. Performance-wise, I'd expect they'd be virtually identical, but I'm hoping the 451 will benefit from improved durability as I add another 40+ HP to the equation. * 452 * Block - '73 OEM 440 - Pro-Gram cross-bolted main caps on #2-4 - .060" oversize + re-hone - bushed lifter bores - zero decked Pistons - custom 4.380" Ross flat-tops ("replicas" of original build's JEs) - 6 cc valve reliefs - 648 grams + 154 grams pin - piston to wall clearance .006-.0065" after re-hone Rings - Mahle 1/16", 1/16", 3/16" file-fit w/ standard-tension oil (replacing the Total seal "Gapless" top ring set used previously w/ inconclusive results) - top gap .020", 2nd gap .024" Rods - Eagle 6.76" x .990" - 895 grams - new ARP 8740 bolts Bearings - FM Comp Series 3/4-groove mains - FM Comp Series rods - Main & rod clearance .0027-.0028" Crank - OEM 440 forged cut to .010"/.010" under Bob weight ~ 2500 grams * 451 * Block - '71 OEM 440 - Plate-style aluminum main caps; TBD on whether a CRE girdle will be used, too - .055" oversize - standard lifter bores (not bushed) - deck height .005" (pistons down .005"), TBD on whether I have it cut again for zero deck or run something like a .036"-thick gasket to keep the quench around .040" Pistons - CP flat-tops - 6 cc valve reliefs - 632 grams + 141 grams pin - piston to wall clearance .004" Rings - Total Seal conventional 1/16", 1/16", 3/16" file-fit w/ Napier 2nd and 18# oil ring tension Rods - K1 6.76" x .990" - 841 grams - ARP 2000 bolts Bearings - FM Comp Series 3/4-groove mains - Clevite H-series narrowed - Main & rod clearance .0028-.0029" Crank - Eagle 4340 3.75" stroke cut .010"/.010" under Bob weight ~ 2360 grams

Re: FWIW, Old vs New 440 Short Block details [Re: BradH] #1079219 09/20/11 08:00 PM 09/20/11 08:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,932 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,932 NC	Quote: the 452 is now on it's 4th (re)build... and nothing lasts forever. I hope you saved all that typing for future posts about your questions. That 452 has been around the block a few times. My 511 Was "new" in 2006 and although it was apart 2 times, it wasn't honed and reringed and new rod bearings until the winter of 2010 and over 600 passes. I did change the main bearings and 1 rod bearing during the inspections. They were OK but not good enough to put back in for a couple more years of racing. The 2010 rebuild was needed. Your 4 rebuilds are a bunch. 1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1

Re: FWIW, Old vs New 440 Short Block details [Re: 440Jim] #1079220 09/21/11 01:13 PM 09/21/11 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: Your 4 rebuilds are a bunch. Yep, and not that much time on any of them, IMO. #1 - Initial build as a 451 by RAM Racing Engines. That lasted about 1200 miles before it ate a cam (IMO due to Bill R. disregarding Engle's spring recommendations for their .904" SFT profiles and putting in something w/ about 50#s more open pressure). Cam broke in just fine, but started loosing lobes right about 1000 miles. #2 - Took it back to RAM and it was re-honed, got new bearings & rings, and needed the lifter bores bushed 'cuz the wiped cam sh!t scored the lifter bores badly. The cylinder bores took a lot of honing for the same reason, unfortunately. Switched to Schubeck lifters at that point. #3 - Pulled the heads off to get freshened up and do a cam swap, only to have the #4 cam bearing come out w/ the cam. Also had concerns re: ring seal, so I tore it down again. A different shop was going to re-hone (again), but the piston-to-wall clearance was up around .008" already, about twice what the JE pistons were spec'd for. Decided to have it taken out from 4.375" to 4.380" which required new pistons. This is the build that went through the PRH dyno sessions after switching to the Stage VIs, etc. #4 - The infamous "ran low on oil" fiasco put the hurt to the bearings, etc., forcing it to come apart again. This time it was totally self-inflicted. The odd thing (at least IMO) is the same OEM .010"/.010" crank has been used continuously from the original RAM build. I've had it checked out for size, cracks, etc. and it keeps passing muster. It's been re-polished three times now since the original build. I was expecting it to show some cracks by now, but Gary Facemire's last "wet" inspection didn't find any. I just keep putting it back in w/ new bearings. I was really tempted to put a "budget" 4340 crank in it this time, but decided to save the Eagle for the 451.

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1