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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: Moe]
#1058522
08/21/11 01:23 PM
08/21/11 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Haven't raced with it but every thing else is just the same. I have run up to 85% ethanol (not in flex fuel cars)and the biggest differance is the exhaust smells way better.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: DennisH ]
#1058525
08/21/11 01:41 PM
08/21/11 01:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,278
San Jose, California
DennisH
Vacation
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Vacation
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,278
San Jose, California
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Quote:
That is all that was available in Reno. I don't like being forced to put a subsidized solvent in the 69. It ran weak and had a spitting issue but was partially due to the altitude and a sea-level tune up so I can't be sure.
Better description of the symptoms: Mine stalled too and I suspect a heat soak boiling of the fuel. The engine temp never exceeded 190 under extended idle high ambient of about 90.
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: Moe]
#1058526
08/21/11 03:09 PM
08/21/11 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
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I used to live in an area that didn't have it...moved to an area that did.
What I noticed:
1) Fuel goes bad a lot faster...Use Sta-Bil if you don't drive much
2) Had to re-tune the carb a bit, especially the idle mixture screws and choke setting
3) Gas mileage is about 10-15% worse
4) The car floods very easily when shut off hot from fuel boil off.
The stuff is crap...it creates even more havoc with my vintage lawn equipment...within one year it made the 37 year old gas tank in my lawn mower fail at the seam.
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: 63stabamatic]
#1058530
08/22/11 09:02 AM
08/22/11 09:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
Slowly, without fanfair, more places here (especially marinas) are replacing 93 octane 10% ethanol fuel with 100% gasoline version, more money of course. A lot of marine engines are having big problems with ethanol. I hope the trend continues.
I wonder if everyone around here has already done that...
I remember when it used to be a dead even dime per gallon difference with each grade of gas. mid-grade was always $.10 higher than regular, and premium was always $.20 higher than regular.
not it seems that mid grade is still $.10 higher, but premium is now typically $.25-.29 higher than regular.
at first, I thought they were just sucking profit out of people's pockets because they want "better gas" and would be willing to pay for it.
I REALLY need to look at making the switch to E85 for my Dakota, but the availability just isn't what I want it to be, and I don't know that I want to mess with it.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1058531
08/22/11 11:23 AM
08/22/11 11:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Quote:
Quote:
Slowly, without fanfair, more places here (especially marinas) are replacing 93 octane 10% ethanol fuel with 100% gasoline version, more money of course. A lot of marine engines are having big problems with ethanol. I hope the trend continues.
I wonder if everyone around here has already done that...
I remember when it used to be a dead even dime per gallon difference with each grade of gas. mid-grade was always $.10 higher than regular, and premium was always $.20 higher than regular.
not it seems that mid grade is still $.10 higher, but premium is now typically $.25-.29 higher than regular.
at first, I thought they were just sucking profit out of people's pockets because they want "better gas" and would be willing to pay for it.
I REALLY need to look at making the switch to E85 for my Dakota, but the availability just isn't what I want it to be, and I don't know that I want to mess with it.
I ran E-85 in my 2000 dak V6 non flex fuel truck whenever I could and never had a problem. I did not make any changes to use it. Fuel trim numbers barely changed and mpg was about the same. Never had any fuel system problems either.
I love how people act like a fuel pump never quit before ethanol came around or a gas tank never rusted out before ethanol and all the complaining about vapor lock before ethanol never happened. Ethanol won't rust your tank if anything it is the other way around as ethanol absorbs moisture in the tank than carries it away when you run the engine 
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1058532
08/22/11 11:38 AM
08/22/11 11:38 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Slowly, without fanfair, more places here (especially marinas) are replacing 93 octane 10% ethanol fuel with 100% gasoline version, more money of course. A lot of marine engines are having big problems with ethanol. I hope the trend continues.
I wonder if everyone around here has already done that...
I remember when it used to be a dead even dime per gallon difference with each grade of gas. mid-grade was always $.10 higher than regular, and premium was always $.20 higher than regular.
not it seems that mid grade is still $.10 higher, but premium is now typically $.25-.29 higher than regular.
at first, I thought they were just sucking profit out of people's pockets because they want "better gas" and would be willing to pay for it.
I REALLY need to look at making the switch to E85 for my Dakota, but the availability just isn't what I want it to be, and I don't know that I want to mess with it.
I ran E-85 in my 2000 dak V6 non flex fuel truck whenever I could and never had a problem. I did not make any changes to use it. Fuel trim numbers barely changed and mpg was about the same. Never had any fuel system problems either.
I love how people act like a fuel pump never quit before ethanol came around or a gas tank never rusted out before ethanol and all the complaining about vapor lock before ethanol never happened. Ethanol won't rust your tank if anything it is the other way around as ethanol absorbs moisture in the tank than carries it away when you run the engine
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: bboogieart]
#1058534
08/22/11 02:42 PM
08/22/11 02:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,513
AZ
Mike P
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,513
AZ
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I’ll start by saying that I live at 4500 ft and summer temperatures often exceed 100 degrees here. Additionally everything I own is carbureted.
We only used to get it in the winter down here and at first the major problem seemed to be needle and seats and other rubber products failing prematurely and about a 10% drop in fuel mileage. The hoses and carb parts are now compatible with the ethanol so that problem went away.
A couple of years ago we ended up with E10 all year round and there are no stations in the area that have 100% gasoline. While it’s not usually a major problem with fuel injected cars, it sucks in carbureted engines. During the summer heat soak and vapor lock have become problems on several of my cars and the fuel goes bad much quicker. Carb spacers can be a band-aid for heat soak but do nothing for vapor lock. The only real cure is usually adding a fuel return line so the fuel is in constant motion in the fuel system, and doesn’t have time to sit in one place long enough to pick up enough heat to vapor lock. Nothing I’ve tried can regain the fuel mileage loss.
That’s from the practical side…..I won’t give my opinion about the government subsidies for ethanol production or EPA pushing to elevate the ethanol level to 15%.
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1058535
08/22/11 02:55 PM
08/22/11 02:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Slowly, without fanfair, more places here (especially marinas) are replacing 93 octane 10% ethanol fuel with 100% gasoline version, more money of course. A lot of marine engines are having big problems with ethanol. I hope the trend continues.
I wonder if everyone around here has already done that...
I remember when it used to be a dead even dime per gallon difference with each grade of gas. mid-grade was always $.10 higher than regular, and premium was always $.20 higher than regular.
not it seems that mid grade is still $.10 higher, but premium is now typically $.25-.29 higher than regular.
at first, I thought they were just sucking profit out of people's pockets because they want "better gas" and would be willing to pay for it.
I REALLY need to look at making the switch to E85 for my Dakota, but the availability just isn't what I want it to be, and I don't know that I want to mess with it.
I ran E-85 in my 2000 dak V6 non flex fuel truck whenever I could and never had a problem. I did not make any changes to use it. Fuel trim numbers barely changed and mpg was about the same. Never had any fuel system problems either.
I love how people act like a fuel pump never quit before ethanol came around or a gas tank never rusted out before ethanol and all the complaining about vapor lock before ethanol never happened. Ethanol won't rust your tank if anything it is the other way around as ethanol absorbs moisture in the tank than carries it away when you run the engine
I don't understand how you can do that and not have problems. everything I've read has said that stoich for Ethanol is like 10:1 instead of 14.7:1 and that WOT you want like 8:1 instead of 12.7:1
on one hand, I can see how you can run "leaner" and be ok, since the ethanol has a cooling effect, and everyone talks about how much cooler their engines run on Alcohol. cooler means less likely to melt parts, which is the risk from running lean.
but, for max power, I'd be losing if I didn't fatten the fuel up a bunch, wouldn't I?
I just don't see how you can run E85 on a E10 fuel trim setting and have it be "A-OK"
I'm not worried about corrosion or any of that stuff. like you said, fuel pumps failed, gas tanks rusted out, etc. long before E85 ever came around.
but I'm not really looking to toast a fresh motor on E85 without doing any additional tuning or injector upgrades to a bigger size.
with my SCT tuner, it'd be easy enough to have my programer write me an engine tune for regular 93 octane fuel, and one for E85, that way if I go out on the road and get stuck somewhere without E85 available, I can switch computer tunes while I fill the tank up.
but bigger injectors will run me $300, for an unknown gain by reducing fuel costs of E85 vs 93 octane pump gas, or the unknown potential power gain that everyone says Alcohol gives them after the tune is dialed in.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: 64legacy]
#1058536
08/22/11 03:44 PM
08/22/11 03:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Have owned my BB Fury over 40 years now and there was a differance.Car would start and run ok, drive into town,shut off,come back out fires right up,go about 100 feet then just stall and not start again for about 10 minutes.
Finally tracked it to the ethanol in the gas. Heat soak on the Holly and the gas boiled in the bowels. Heat sheild now installed under carb and all feul lines insulated.........no more problems.
Alcohol boils a lot sooner than gas causing this to happen. When this fuel was first introduced we had a lot of problems with it cleaning out the metal tanks and fuel lines causing numerous carburetor and filter problems. Also ended up cooking out several tanks to rectify the problem
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1058537
08/22/11 03:47 PM
08/22/11 03:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,449
Dandridge TN
Dabee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,449
Dandridge TN
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Quote:
I don't understand how you can do that and not have problems. everything I've read has said that stoich for Ethanol is like 10:1 instead of 14.7:1 and that WOT you want like 8:1 instead of 12.7:1
on one hand, I can see how you can run "leaner" and be ok, since the ethanol has a cooling effect, and everyone talks about how much cooler their engines run on Alcohol. cooler means less likely to melt parts, which is the risk from running lean.
but, for max power, I'd be losing if I didn't fatten the fuel up a bunch, wouldn't I?
I just don't see how you can run E85 on a E10 fuel trim setting and have it be "A-OK"
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: Dabee]
#1058538
08/22/11 05:46 PM
08/22/11 05:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,144
wellington ohio
68-scatpack-rt
In thin ice
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In thin ice
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,144
wellington ohio
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i'm going through this right now with my boat (306 fully worked over ferd) i run a holley 600 and i just discovered that the ethanol blend gas was literally eating my carb and fuel pump. i had to replace the metering block as it was corroding apart!  my carb builder told me the ethanol was retaining water during periods of non usage and that's what does it in. it also started to corrode my water/fuel seperator and my mech. fuel pump. carb builder told me to take the carburetors off my old car and boat, dry them out and store them inside for the winter. i will have to dry the whole system as the pump will be eaten as well. another "fix" is to use a product such as "sta-bil" or "seafoam".
unions....the folks who brought you the weekend!
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1058539
08/22/11 05:50 PM
08/22/11 05:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,144
wellington ohio
68-scatpack-rt
In thin ice
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In thin ice
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,144
wellington ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Slowly, without fanfair, more places here (especially marinas) are replacing 93 octane 10% ethanol fuel with 100% gasoline version, more money of course. A lot of marine engines are having big problems with ethanol. I hope the trend continues.
I wonder if everyone around here has already done that...
I remember when it used to be a dead even dime per gallon difference with each grade of gas. mid-grade was always $.10 higher than regular, and premium was always $.20 higher than regular.
not it seems that mid grade is still $.10 higher, but premium is now typically $.25-.29 higher than regular.
at first, I thought they were just sucking profit out of people's pockets because they want "better gas" and would be willing to pay for it.
I REALLY need to look at making the switch to E85 for my Dakota, but the availability just isn't what I want it to be, and I don't know that I want to mess with it.
I ran E-85 in my 2000 dak V6 non flex fuel truck whenever I could and never had a problem. I did not make any changes to use it. Fuel trim numbers barely changed and mpg was about the same. Never had any fuel system problems either.
I love how people act like a fuel pump never quit before ethanol came around or a gas tank never rusted out before ethanol and all the complaining about vapor lock before ethanol never happened. Ethanol won't rust your tank if anything it is the other way around as ethanol absorbs moisture in the tank than carries it away when you run the engine
I don't understand how you can do that and not have problems. everything I've read has said that stoich for Ethanol is like 10:1 instead of 14.7:1 and that WOT you want like 8:1 instead of 12.7:1
on one hand, I can see how you can run "leaner" and be ok, since the ethanol has a cooling effect, and everyone talks about how much cooler their engines run on Alcohol. cooler means less likely to melt parts, which is the risk from running lean.
but, for max power, I'd be losing if I didn't fatten the fuel up a bunch, wouldn't I?
I just don't see how you can run E85 on a E10 fuel trim setting and have it be "A-OK"
I'm not worried about corrosion or any of that stuff. like you said, fuel pumps failed, gas tanks rusted out, etc. long before E85 ever came around.
but I'm not really looking to toast a fresh motor on E85 without doing any additional tuning or injector upgrades to a bigger size.
with my SCT tuner, it'd be easy enough to have my programer write me an engine tune for regular 93 octane fuel, and one for E85, that way if I go out on the road and get stuck somewhere without E85 available, I can switch computer tunes while I fill the tank up.
but bigger injectors will run me $300, for an unknown gain by reducing fuel costs of E85 vs 93 octane pump gas, or the unknown potential power gain that everyone says Alcohol gives them after the tune is dialed in.
you need to richen your jetting by 30% to run e85 on a carbureted car. on a fuely you need 30% larger injectors and a pump to supply them with the additional fuel.
you can't just use e85 in an engine tuned for gasoline. 
unions....the folks who brought you the weekend!
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Re: Pump Gas w/ 10% Ethanol
[Re: 68-scatpack-rt]
#1058540
08/25/11 05:46 PM
08/25/11 05:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Slowly, without fanfair, more places here (especially marinas) are replacing 93 octane 10% ethanol fuel with 100% gasoline version, more money of course. A lot of marine engines are having big problems with ethanol. I hope the trend continues.
I wonder if everyone around here has already done that...
I remember when it used to be a dead even dime per gallon difference with each grade of gas. mid-grade was always $.10 higher than regular, and premium was always $.20 higher than regular.
not it seems that mid grade is still $.10 higher, but premium is now typically $.25-.29 higher than regular.
at first, I thought they were just sucking profit out of people's pockets because they want "better gas" and would be willing to pay for it.
I REALLY need to look at making the switch to E85 for my Dakota, but the availability just isn't what I want it to be, and I don't know that I want to mess with it.
I ran E-85 in my 2000 dak V6 non flex fuel truck whenever I could and never had a problem. I did not make any changes to use it. Fuel trim numbers barely changed and mpg was about the same. Never had any fuel system problems either.
I love how people act like a fuel pump never quit before ethanol came around or a gas tank never rusted out before ethanol and all the complaining about vapor lock before ethanol never happened. Ethanol won't rust your tank if anything it is the other way around as ethanol absorbs moisture in the tank than carries it away when you run the engine
I don't understand how you can do that and not have problems. everything I've read has said that stoich for Ethanol is like 10:1 instead of 14.7:1 and that WOT you want like 8:1 instead of 12.7:1
on one hand, I can see how you can run "leaner" and be ok, since the ethanol has a cooling effect, and everyone talks about how much cooler their engines run on Alcohol. cooler means less likely to melt parts, which is the risk from running lean.
but, for max power, I'd be losing if I didn't fatten the fuel up a bunch, wouldn't I?
I just don't see how you can run E85 on a E10 fuel trim setting and have it be "A-OK"
I'm not worried about corrosion or any of that stuff. like you said, fuel pumps failed, gas tanks rusted out, etc. long before E85 ever came around.
but I'm not really looking to toast a fresh motor on E85 without doing any additional tuning or injector upgrades to a bigger size.
with my SCT tuner, it'd be easy enough to have my programer write me an engine tune for regular 93 octane fuel, and one for E85, that way if I go out on the road and get stuck somewhere without E85 available, I can switch computer tunes while I fill the tank up.
but bigger injectors will run me $300, for an unknown gain by reducing fuel costs of E85 vs 93 octane pump gas, or the unknown potential power gain that everyone says Alcohol gives them after the tune is dialed in.
you need to richen your jetting by 30% to run e85 on a carbureted car. on a fuely you need 30% larger injectors and a pump to supply them with the additional fuel.
you can't just use e85 in an engine tuned for gasoline.
Don't knock it till you try it. I used to be one of the guys on the "100% gasoline only" band wagon till I started doing some experimenting of my own and not listinging to every one who says you have to do things a certain way. All I can say is I ran e-85 straight up a lot in my vehicles both carbed and injected and never did ANY tuneing for either and only had an issue one time and that issue corrected it self, my 99 Neon started running terrible for about 150 miles after the first fill up of e-85, I was driving from fort hood to OKC and before I got to OKC it was running perfect again, I think it had water in the tank and the ethanol absorbed it, once the water was gone the drivability was back to normal. I ran it in probably 20 different cars and that is the ONLY issue I ever had. If I could figure out a way to get e-85 here I would build a very high compression 273 MPG motor for my 65 cuda and I am confidant I could get it over 30 MPG and run faster than the factory 274 4bbl motors did. No way 10% ethanol can reduce you MPG 10%-15%. Just try it in your car for yourself and ignore the what you heard, I heard someone the otherday sy a Yugo was actually a good car, should I listen because someone else said it or do I trust my own experiance?
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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