Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
charging system just took a dive #1034394
07/17/11 07:44 PM
07/17/11 07:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
so my ammeter is usually showing in the positive range a little past positive, and very past positive when it took a lot of cranking to start the car, and then it settles down. just what you would expect. today i noticed that it is showing about that much negative, and sure enough, after a few starts, the battery now no longer has enough juice to start the car.

i only had a few minutes to start looking at it. battery shows 11.8 volts, and no change when the engine is revved up to 2k+. i started looking at the FSM on testing the voltage regulator, and the test involves the ballast resistor. i believe mine is bypassed, as i've got an MSD ignition, so is this test still valid?

i don't yet suspect the alternator, as it was rewound by a very reputable shop within the last year or so, although that doesn't mean it isn't it.

did a quick check and all connections seem to be tight.

i'm charging the battery now, so will be able to start it and begin testing later. what are some quick tests i can make to try and track this down?

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: mickm] #1034395
07/17/11 11:01 PM
07/17/11 11:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
eng off/ign on see if the blue feed wire out from the bulkhead has fire (1) at the blue wire alt field terminal and (2) at the top terminal in the VR triangle w it facing up like a pyramid (some C bodies are sideways or upside down). Pull alt brushes & quick visual of them & they wear at an angle so replace them at that same angle. Check VR ground (jumper wire w alligator clips) 1 clip to known good ground then scrape the VR case w the other clip & see if it starts charging (eng running). pull a batt cable & w your VOM see if continuity between the ends of the green field wire (alt/vr). Full field the alt: pull both female field terminals off & jump from batt positive to either male alt field terminal, start eng & at a fast idle then jump from the batt neg post to the other alt male field terminal for 3 seconds MAX & if it charges (you'll hear it kick in & slow the eng down slightly but decisively) the alt is good. Have no light bulbs or accessories going when you "full field" and it's a good idea to run a seperate 8 ga jumper from the alt "batt" terminal to the battery positive post when you full field. If the alt tests good and the blue/green circuits are good and the reg has a good ground that only leaves the reg as the culprit


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: mickm] #1034396
07/18/11 12:16 AM
07/18/11 12:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here
DAYCLONA  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
Start the car, if the alternator is "working", the rear bearing at the center position of the case, in the rear case, will have some magnetic attraction when the tip of a screwdriver is touched to it,....if there's magnetic attraction, but the output to the battery is nil,....time for a Voltage Regulator,....

If there's no magnetic attraction the alternator is kaput,..replace the alt. AND THE VR......

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: mickm] #1034397
07/18/11 12:30 AM
07/18/11 12:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
I
intragration Offline
enthusiast
intragration  Offline
enthusiast
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
I had a bad connection on the fusible link, right by the starter solenoid. This high resistance apparently blew the link and also fried the newly rebuilt alternator.

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: intragration] #1034398
07/18/11 11:21 AM
07/18/11 11:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
D
denfireguy Offline
top fuel
denfireguy  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
Quote:

I had a bad connection on the fusible link, right by the starter solenoid. This high resistance apparently blew the link and also fried the newly rebuilt alternator.


Not sure but it also could have been the rebuilt alternator had a diode short out and take your fusible link out. That happens often, especially with newly rebuilt alternators.
Craig


2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: denfireguy] #1034399
07/18/11 03:21 PM
07/18/11 03:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
I
intragration Offline
enthusiast
intragration  Offline
enthusiast
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
Pretty sure in my case it was the connection, I found it because the connector on the fusible link was melted. Undid it, and found that the male end of the plug was pretty much crushed, and was almost not making contact. If it wasn't for that, I'd agree with you. Before I figured it out, I just knew the alternator was bad, and the rebuilder built it again under warranty. Admirable on their part, and probably my fault...

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: intragration] #1034400
07/26/11 02:31 AM
07/26/11 02:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
turns out it was the stator in the alternator. when i asked the guy why it took a dump, as it was rewound just 2 years ago, he simply said "too much load on the alternator".

i didn't get a chance to talk to him more, but what causes too much load? sometimes when i have to crank it a bunch to get gas to the carb, the needle on the ammeter hovers just below the first mark on the positive side, but quickly comes back to just above mid line as the battery recharges.

i've never had any indicator that there was too much load on the alternator. besides the MSD box, everything else is stock: am radio, headlights, etc...

any thoughts? i'd rather not burn up another stator in two years time...

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: mickm] #1034401
07/26/11 02:42 AM
07/26/11 02:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
I
intragration Offline
enthusiast
intragration  Offline
enthusiast
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
A bad connection somewhere can cause high resistance. High resistance can cause too much load. You're still in the same boat you were in, which I was in last year. I'd start checking connections again. Also might not be a bad idea to replace the voltage regulator.

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: intragration] #1034402
07/26/11 10:17 AM
07/26/11 10:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,322
Michigan
C
crlush Offline
pro stock
crlush  Offline
pro stock
C

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,322
Michigan
Bad connections cause high amps, mambe you need to check your bulkhead connection, i did the bypass on mine and what a difference on how bright the lights are, blinkers are no longer slow, also disconnected the ampmeter so it won't burn up, highly recomend looking into it.

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: mickm] #1034403
07/26/11 10:21 AM
07/26/11 10:21 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,566
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
Still wishing...

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,566
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Quote:

turns out it was the stator in the alternator. when i asked the guy why it took a dump, as it was rewound just 2 years ago, he simply said "too much load on the alternator".

i didn't get a chance to talk to him more, but what causes too much load? sometimes when i have to crank it a bunch to get gas to the carb, the needle on the ammeter hovers just below the first mark on the positive side, but quickly comes back to just above mid line as the battery recharges.

i've never had any indicator that there was too much load on the alternator. besides the MSD box, everything else is stock: am radio, headlights, etc...

any thoughts? i'd rather not burn up another stator in two years time...




Too much load on the alternator... what a load of crap. Sounds like you need a new stator and a new rebuilder.

Unless I saw him actually rewind the stator, I would bet it came out of a box like it does at every other shop in country. Just get a new stator and install it yourself or get a bracket kit for a Denso alternator from a Toyota. http://www.arengineering.com/alternatorbracket/ND_bracket/denso.html Mancini sells these too.

Another option is to adapt an Autolite from a 70's (gasp) Ford. Very dependable alternator. (They used them on Cessna aircraft)

Kevin

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: Twostick] #1034404
07/26/11 10:45 AM
07/26/11 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here
DAYCLONA  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
Quote:



Too much load on the alternator... what a load of crap. Sounds like you need a new stator and a new rebuilder.






...you said what I was thinking as I read the OP's post,...I gave up on rebuilt/restored alternators a long time ago, after going thru various companies and individuals,...and getting stuck at the most inopertune locations with a bad alt,....I've been running the Powermaster line of reproduction and street alternators the last 7+ years with not one issue on any kind on my cars,...and they do get driven long distance, hours on end, days at a time, no garage/trailer queens, so I need an alternator that's in it for the long haul, for the money you spend on a junk rebuilt, you can buy a Powermaster reproduction that's all new parts, cases included, that's been tested before ship, test sheets are included with each alt, plus they're rated up to 13,000 RPM pulley speeds,...prolonged hi rpm was the biggest killer of my rebuilts, along with other "mysterious" issues that were never the rebuilders fault

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: DAYCLONA] #1034405
07/26/11 11:52 AM
07/26/11 11:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm Offline OP
master
mickm  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
high resistance on a bad connection does make sense, but wouldn't that show up in other ways? i will start playing around.

with what little i know of charging systems, and the behavior of the car, the too much load thing didn't quite make sense either...

the shop i went to has a great reputation, and has been around for a long time. doesn't always mean anything, but a good start.

he did replace the stator, and it kind of looks like junk, so i don't know for how long i'm out of the woods. i checked out Powermaster, just waiting for a quote back.

but there is at least one member who rebuilds alternators, does anyone know who that is?

Re: charging system just took a dive [Re: mickm] #1034406
07/26/11 02:17 PM
07/26/11 02:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
I
intragration Offline
enthusiast
intragration  Offline
enthusiast
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
The only indication I had of a problem (other than a solid draw on the amp meter, which I didn't notice) was when it started cranking slow. You COULD have had a poorly rebuilt alternator. But checking for bad connections is free and may fix your problem. Our cars were reliable when new, they can continue to be reliable with factory style parts.







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1