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Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
#1002652
05/30/11 06:41 AM
05/30/11 06:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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Living in the land o' emissions testing, passing the local 'Air-Care' is always a concern here when building an engine. Racers have found some ingenious ways past or through the testing with their big-cammed cars, but it usually involves a lot ov tuning, and often expensive re-testing, and re-re-testing, and re-re-re-testing, and so-on. Some guys never get through it and end up running on the 3-month pass (you get only once), or daily permits, or swapping in 'Air-Care cams' or sometimes even swapping in 'Air-care engines' to pass the test.
I've never had a car with a big enough cam to worry about this, but the engine i am planning now will definitely have trouble here.
I was wondering if you could just swap on an 'Air-Care exhaust system'... with a couple cats, that would make enough ov a difference to pass the test with a fairly serious cam. My Challenger's exhaust will be a T/A style exhaust, and unbolts in one piece. My 72 Charger has the same style exhaust and it takes me minutes to get it out and back into place... so this would be no big deal... not unlike the Mustang guys with their stock 6-cat head-pipes and the off-road ones they bolt back on after emissions.
Is it that easy...??? Would a couple cats on a simple X-pipe system in place ov mufflers help an old car pass the test. Why wouldn't others do this...???
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: 74fldart]
#1002654
05/30/11 10:15 AM
05/30/11 10:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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Quote:
they would definately help but to work right you would need to add the air pump and the plumbing to each cat.
i think that most people dont run them because they arent being forced to pass emissions testing plus the cost can get high.
Air pump? My girl's 96 GT has no such attachment? To remove the stock headpipes you only have to unplug the O2 sensors... which have nothing to do with the cats.
If this is a viable solution i'm going to find a pair ov used cats and build myself an 'Air-Care exhaust'.
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1002655
05/30/11 10:40 AM
05/30/11 10:40 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
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Quote:
Living in the land o' emissions testing, passing the local 'Air-Care' is always a concern here when building an engine. Racers have found some ingenious ways past or through the testing with their big-cammed cars, but it usually involves a lot ov tuning, and often expensive re-testing, and re-re-testing, and re-re-re-testing, and so-on. Some guys never get through it and end up running on the 3-month pass (you get only once), or daily permits, or swapping in 'Air-Care cams' or sometimes even swapping in 'Air-care engines' to pass the test.
A less expensive option- I saw in the speedway catalog they make 1.3 ratio rockers for use during cam break in.
Seeing that these are roller rockers I suspect that people use them for longer periods of time than cam break in.
Know what I mean? 1.3 ratio rockers would really take the starch out of some motors that are running 1.6 or 1.7 ratio rockers (as is my case)
An example would be a cam ground for 500 lift with 1.7 rockers would drop to a 382 lift cam. I'm not sure how to calculate the duration with rocker changes but that would drop as well to some degree.
;-)
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: gdonovan]
#1002657
05/30/11 11:19 AM
05/30/11 11:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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More modern cats do not need air pumps. However, they are usually behind a computer controlled, fuel injected engine that is tuned to use cats.
Adding a cat to a vehicle that never had them is a potential fire hazard. Cats make lots of heat burning off residual hydrocarbons. Without proper heat shielding you can start a fire. Also, lumpy cammed fuel rich exhaust will aggravate the situation.
Probably be better to get an air care motor and swap it in for the test.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: RodStRace]
#1002660
05/30/11 08:06 PM
05/30/11 08:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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Hmmm... I knew there had to be a catch somewhere...
Still, i think i should clarify a few points.
First, buying special rockers is NOT going to be a cheaper option than building a special exhaust. I have boxes ov pipe to weld up and only need to find a pair ov cats which wont cost me anything. There are racers here who were doing that (rockers) years ago with some success, but i have no idea how well it worked.
Second, this exhaust system would be on the car approximately 20-30 minutes. Just long enough to drive to the testing station, test, then home. There would be no driving around on the cats for any real time. As for heat-shielding, that could be fabbed up easy enough, plus, the car doesn't have a carpet or anything under the floor anyways.
I am NOT interested in buying a emissions-friendly performance cam. Thats defeating the whole point.
I'm also not interested in swapping in a small cam for the test... probably be easier to swap in an engine in my car (which i'd rather not have to do either). I doubt swapping on a small carb would make enough ov a difference. My friend had a specially tuned Holley 660 Street Avenger on his small-cammed 440 and it still failed a couple times.
As for the visual, they do those on cars that had cats from the factory... so the older cars dont get a check (no cats on any 70-72 cars). Even if they did, they'd see cats instead ov mufflers and be happy. No one is going to assume i'm swapping exhausts. Plus, 90% ov the employees there dont really care. Everyone knows how much ov a scam Air-Care is here...
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: stumpy]
#1002665
05/31/11 01:59 AM
05/31/11 01:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445
Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
daniel_depetro
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445
Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
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Quote:
By the way it's spelled OF not ov. 
I don't usually care about grammar or spelling on these forums, however "of" is such a commonly used word. Combined with the fact that I just finished reading another post of yours where it also drove me crazy was just too much.
It stuck me kind of odd because your postings that I viewed seem to be well written/easy to read.
1969 Dodge Super Bee A12 (440 Six Pack, 4-speed, Dana 60 4.10)
1972 Plymouth Road Runner (400, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
1974 Plymouth Duster 360 (360, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: None2Slow]
#1002666
05/31/11 06:09 AM
05/31/11 06:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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Quote:
When you test, you want the LOWEST octane fuel you can get. Around here we have 85 up to 93 at the pumps. The lower the octane, the easier it is to "lite off". This results in a more complete burn. Also, you will need to shield anything under the car from the heat that those cats will put off. Maybe run an exhaust dump system with mufflers in 1 set to drive there and just before you pull up, switch over to the cats and run them for the last 5 miles or so. The hotter they are (to a point) the better they work. If you have any undercoating or anything that can possibly burn, it will do so. Most cars that have cats had a shield on the cats as well as welded to the underside of the floor. Most cars will pass with new cats installed no matter how bad it is. No telling how long they will last.
I was under the impression that better gas was cleaner than cheaper gas. Come testing day i always run the tank pretty much dry then fill it with Chevron 94. Helps that my car likes the octane better i suppose. Even at the pumps they say the better gas is cleaner... but i suppose oil companies would never lie to us to make a buck...
As for the heat issue, i haven't built the exhaust yet, i can have it hang 4" from the floor if i want... its not gonna be driven on, so the pipe/cat routine can be pretty far away from the floor. I wouldn't have thought heat would be that much ov an issue... but it seems unanimous, so i'll plan around that.
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: stumpy]
#1002667
05/31/11 06:11 AM
05/31/11 06:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
I would suggest you go talk to the racers you refer to as having done this already because they have experience and might be able to save you some time and cash. By the way it's spelled OF not ov.
Well, that was some time ago... different circles now, but i remember those conversations. It was more theory/experimentation back then, and i suppose if the racing had continued unabated (it got broken up) we'd have seen even more ingenious emissions solutions.
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1002668
05/31/11 06:13 AM
05/31/11 06:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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Quote:
I had a 76 Camaro that had a catalytic converter with NO air pump.
I like Pale Roaders ideas... Twin low restriction Cats, some careful carb tuning, a closed element air cleaner assembly..... maybe even mix in some white lantern fuel with the mid grade fuel to clean things up as well!
Why would a closed-element air cleaner help with emissions? I just run a stub-stack (no cleaner at all) on my car.
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: daniel_depetro]
#1002669
05/31/11 06:18 AM
05/31/11 06:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
OP
Swears too much
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OP
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
By the way it's spelled OF not ov.
I don't usually care about grammar or spelling on these forums, however "of" is such a commonly used word. Combined with the fact that I just finished reading another post of yours where it also drove me crazy was just too much.
It stuck me kind of odd because your postings that I viewed seem to be well written/easy to read.
'To' is an even more common word... When people here learn to spell 'your' or 'there' or 'distributor' or 'Challenger' i'll learn to spell 'ov'. Why is this such a big deal...??? Its not like i spell anything else wrong...
Just bump your 'crazy' threshold up a notch and we'll all be happy.
I would think my horrible punctuation would be more annoying to grammar-nazis...
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Re: Putting catalytic converters on old cars...???
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1002671
05/31/11 06:31 AM
05/31/11 06:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
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Swears too much
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OP
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Quote:
Here in CA we have the strictest Smog laws in the Country. EVERYTHING has to match. I forgot that your jurisdiction does NOT require a visual inspection.... My mistake on that one.
Care to address the "OV" spelling? Is that a regional thing? I'd certainly agree that in traditional English, YOUR spelling is phonetically better.
Oh yeah, though BC would love to meet California standards i doubt it will ever happen. There was a vote this year after however long its been (12-15 years...???) to renew Air-Care's contract or scrap it and they only VERY narrowly passed it back in. They dont believe any more than the rest ov us that it works, they just cant pass up the ludicrous cash-grab it is... especially seeing how utterly corrupt and wasteful our provincial government is.
No... we are nowhere as nazi as California is. Just Air-Care, which is probably on the more lax end ov allowances, and thats it. No vehicle inspections, no visuals on emissions unless your car is new enough to have cats. These days you go in with an old car and they have no idea what to make ov it. The last time i drove my 68 Caddy hearse through the new guy was going front to back with the under-chassis mirror trying to find the cats...
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