Originally Posted by poorboy
Originally Posted by madscientist
Originally Posted by poorboy
Originally Posted by Sniper
Go look at the formula for calculating thermal transfer efficiency. Guess which variable isn't in it? Time.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320490866_Performance_Analysis_of_Automobile_Radiator





So Sniper's link is about the construction of a cross flow radiator and its configurations. They are comparing radiator designs against each other, so everything is consistent. There is nothing considered concerning over heating. Yes, I read it.

TJP's linky is specifically referring to over heating, its primary concern is low air flow through the radiator. It appears to be an article in a news paper from a guy that had an over heating experience on an LA freeway, so it may well only be an opinion as well.
It does state "If for some reason the air flow rate through the radiator is too low, the radiator won't be able to do its job and the engine may overheat. At this point (after over heating) If the coolant flow rate is increased the engine will then transfer more heat to the coolant which will exacerbate the situation. I looked it up, exacerbate means to aggravate or irritate. Yes, I read it too.

The battle rages onward!



The battle rages on because of the myths perpetuated that will not die.

Think about it.

The longer the coolant stays in the radiator, it’s also staying in the block longer. Where it picks up more heat. That means the radiator has to dump more heat. So staying in the radiator is adding to the heat load the radiator has to eliminate.

We are working with limited temperature differentials. On a 100 degree day, the difference between that ambient temperature and your coolant temperature is less than it is if the ambient is say…60 degrees. That temperature differential is what makes cooling possible.

What your temperature gauge is telling you is the AVERAGE coolant temperature at the intake manifold. You can (and probably will) have localized coolant temperatures much higher than what the gauge says.

Getting the coolant out of the block quicker (more flow) will reduce local hot spot temperatures because the coolant is moving out of those areas so it’s not allowing the temperature to build up in those places.

You can always tell when a cooling system is inadequate. When the temperature on the gauge is higher than the rated temperature of the thermostat you’ve got issues. If you have a 180 thermostat then your gauge should stay between 180-185 in ANY weather conditions you may incur. On a very hot day, you may see an additional 10 degrees of temperature sitting at a LONG stop light or (alike happens to me if I’m not paying attention) if you get caught waiting for a long train to get out of the way. But as soon as you start moving the temperature should go back to where it normally runs.

If you have a 180 thermostat and your normal operating temperature is say…195 then your cooling system is inadequate. That then is a coolant and air flow issue. Too slow of coolant speed or not enough airflow or both.

The thermostat sets the MINIMUM operating temperature. That’s all it’s job is. It’s a restriction and that’s BAD, but it’s necessary. I have to run a thermostat. If I don’t, even on a 90 degree day my coolant temperature won’t go over 120 degrees or so. On a 50 degree day it won’t go over about 90 degrees. That’s because my cooling system is fully capable of controlling coolant temperature like it should so the thermostat does exactly what it should do, and that’s set the minimum temperature.

There is a reason why guys can go from a 190 to a 160 thermostat and the engine doesn’t stay any cooler. The cooling system is inadequate to deal with the heat load it has to deal with.

I run my water pump at 6% overdriven and if I could I’d double that or a bit more. We had some 108 degree days several years back and my engine temperature was at 160 even in that heat. At stop lights it would get to 175ish and then it would drop back down to 160 once I got moving again.

The backwards thinking that the coolant has to stay in the radiator longer to dump more heat is a fallacy, because the coolant stays in the block longer picking up more heat that the system has to deal with.



Gee, that is a really nice write up.

Except, the thermostat temp (160, 180, 190) is the temp the thermostat starts to open, not the temp it is fully open. If you have a 180 thermostat and your coolant temp is 180, either your gauge is incorrect, or your thermostat is not operating correctly. Of course that also depends on the location of the gauge sender, in relation to the thermostat, and you are assuming the gauge sender is submerged in coolant and not in a trapped air pocket.

A cooling system that can maintain the coolant temperature within 10 degrees of the thermostat rating is functioning correctly.

I've been playing with cooling systems on cars & trucks for a very long time. There is very seldom (read that as almost never) one "fix" that works every time. Usually is a combination of "fixes" that have to be tested to determine which one(s) will cure the issue. Air flow that passes through the radiator traveling all the way through leaving the engine compartment, and obstructions and alterations that change coolant flow speed (fast or slow) from the original design are usually right after coolant leaks as the places to start. Outside of poor maintenance, modifications to the cooling system (or the motor) are usually the causes of cooling system failure.


Only if you buy cheap assed, low grade thermostats. Stewart Components makes the best thermostat. And they are FULLY OPEN at their rated temperature. So there is that.

So when I say the thermostat sets the MINIMUM OPERATING TEMPERATURE that means you can’t buy straight junk. You need to spend a bit of money on a quality thermostat.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston