Hi guys,

I'm building a new K-member for a customers car and having Ron Sutton design all the suspension geometry to bring the car into the 21st century. My question is what would you guys like to see? I'm debating building these for more than just one customer. Would you rather have an OEM cartridge hub that is easily found and replaced or a more expensive tapered bearing hub? Remember a cartridge hub/spindle setup would be much cheaper, use current technology (think Speedtech AFX spindle) but your going to have to move to a 5-on-4-3/4 lug pattern. Is that a deal breaker? While this spindle and geometry would be light years ahead of anything currently available, it's not tailored specifically to the vehicle platform as a fabricated spindle and tapered bearing hub would be. This hub would allow the Mopar bolt pattern, a much higher bearing load capability, and the ability to have the geometry designed specifically for the cars specs (i.e. E-body, B-body), but at a significant cost increase. Not sure the cost is indicative of the performance gain, but you tell me.
Are you guys dead set on not cutting your aprons or modifying the upper control arm mounts?
Just trying to get a feel for everyones expectations.

What about an LX hub?

If doing a cartridge hub, need a spindle that is already available, and the Speedtech/ATS is about the best now and reasonable on cost. It accepts the ZR1 Corvette hub, which is larger and has a higher load rating than C5/C6 hubs.

What is the lesser of the evils? I guess if a guy is serious about it he could just redrill the hubs. Except for the square tire setup guys, running a 5x4.75 front wheel isnt that big of a stretch. What geometry changes are necessary to get a REAL advantage over the factory setup other than the spindle change?

Holy carp batman, at $480 a hub I am not sure you and I use the same definition of "reasonable on cost". Summit, Timken units.

Which leads me to think the whole kit and kaboodle will be too expensive to sell much of.

None of this stuff is cheap. ATS/Speedtech spindles with ZR1 hubs are going to be roughly $1300, while fabbed spindles and hubs are in the $2100 range. Considering this is one of the key components to modernize the suspension and elevate it to a true performance level, I don't feel like this is unaffordable. What I need to know is, do you? Lots of people have paid lots of money for the other two setups out there that are really nothing more than late 70's, early 80's tech. If this suits most peoples needs and driving styles, enough said. If however, your looking to be able to run your Mopar against the Speedtech, DSE, and all the other offerings for 1st and 2nd Gen Camaro's and everything else, then I think a need exist, however small! I am from the camp that thinks putting the lawn chair behind the car and parking it for several hours is not the best use or fun factor of these cars. I want to see them auto crossing or blasting through the twisty's! At the very least, not scare the bejesus out of you when you blast it down the highway and have to brake suddenly or change lanes!

I think what you are attempting to do is a good thing. What is currently out on the market seems to be, for me anyway and others WILL disagree, based on spindly Mustang II drag race applications that are sometimes used for road driving. I'm not sure how that stuff will last with thousands of load cycles on a car being driven on everyday highway/surface streets that in places live up to 3rd world standards. The stock stuff had no issues generally until it got driven like Dukes Of Hazard. How well does the current offerings put up with this kind of usage? Time will tell. As time goes on, the inventory of oe replacements is going to become non existent and we will be faced with having to go a/m. I would much rather go with something that has better geometry and replacement parts that can be easily sourced. Is your project going to be made out of dom mild steel or moly on the framing/arms etc? I know I would like to upgrade mine and will watch for more info from you.

At some point I would be interested in this type of system for one of my cars, will it be a full chassis or some kind of front clip?

Not sure what you are driving, but I haven't ever run into that as a problem on a highway that wasn't covered in snow or so much rain I was hydroplaning. And I've been known to blast past triple digits, Used to make the run From the Naval Station in San Diego to my folks house in 4.5 hours, that's a 400 mile drive. So it's not like I was driving Mrs Daisy here.

Not real sure what you mean by modernize the suspension, could you clarify what you mean by that?

Control arms will be DOM. Not a fan of CM for street use, as it does fatigue.

Niether, going to keep it as a bolt in K-frame.

Sounds like your good with the stock suspension, nothing wrong with that!

Modernized means KPI angles, camber curve, caster degree, scrub radius, and bump steer being optimized for control, handling, and braking....something the stock E and B bodies are seriously lacking, despite how fast you can drive to grandma's house.

I would guess that you will be looking at the E/B body front ends first or are you planning this for A body cars as well?

Well, I'm not an E or B body guy, so I may be missing something there. I owned a73 Challenger years ago, but it was well thumped when I got it.

Never had a B. Mostly A bodies and an occasional C. But I used to make my banzai runs in a G body, fwiw.

So that means an early decision in the design stage of usable wheel diameters, ie, no 15"'s, which really should not be much of a let down as they will soon become almost obsolete for street use in wide HP configurations?

Wheel diameter would be dictated by the brake package you chose, so 15" wheels would be possible, I think. Would have to check the spindle height, etc. I would not change anything to accommodate a 15" wheel, though. It either fits or doesn't! The more important aspect is the offset in relation to the width to have the correct scrub radius.

I have a customers stock E-body that all dimensions were measure from. I have access to B's and A bodies, just have to find the time to measure them up and see what changes would be necessary and more importantly, a paying customer for those!!

I would think with a front? steer rack and pinion, wide rims, and a decent scrub radius/KPI, anything smaller then 17" will not be doable. In my case, on this type of project, I would prefer better geometry over a 15" wheel look, which I am really fond of.

I'm pretty sure they won't fit. The spindle and steering is designed around an 18" wheel.

Well keep the post going on the system as you build it for the E body, are you planning on keeping the factory upper control arm mounts or will it have them on the new suspension?