Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
4 speed conversion problem HELP! #989141
05/09/11 10:41 PM
05/09/11 10:41 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 9
pa
G
Grant Offline OP
member
Grant  Offline OP
member
G

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 9
pa
Okay so i just finished a 4 speed conversion on a 70 dart swinger and it was a a904 trans and swapped it out with a a833 trans non O/D everything went together fine, but i went to start it up and first off there was a valve tap?? By the way i'm 19 years old so I don't have AS much as experience as someone who has been in this field a long time. But also when i went to push in the clutch it was making like a grinding/clashing noise when I got the pedal almost to the floor like a 1/8 inch from the ground. When i pushed the clutch to the floor it made that sound and the car just stalled out and the clutch pedal stuck to the floor. Now i have no clutch return or anything. Does anyone know what could have happened??? please let me know if you have any ideas. thank you!

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Grant] #989142
05/09/11 11:34 PM
05/09/11 11:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Valve tapping? Theres no reason that the inside of the motor should have been affected by the swap. If you had to modify the exhaust for the swap, maybe you are hearing an exhaust leak?
The grinding sound....with your hand on the shifter, can you feel a corresponding vibration in the shifter? If so, the clutch linkage could be binding or just out of adjustment.
What type of clutch and pressure plate did you use? If it had what appears to be multiple flat steel "fingers" where the throwout bearing rides, then it is a Diaphragm design. These usually require one extra step to work correctly: Under the dash, where the clutch pedal swings/pivots from, there is a thick spring. This is called the OVERcenter spring. It needs to be removed for the clutch pedal to work properly. I have an ongoing project car that acts just like yours. It has the Diaphragm clutch and is too soft. To me, that equates to slippage under a heavy load. I'll probably swap to a stiffer clutch by the time this car actually sees street duty.
Finally..... Make sure that the transmission shifter linkage is adjusted properly. It sounds unlikely, but it IS possible to have the linkage adjusted just wrong enough to partially engage TWO gears at the same time. This WILL stall the motor for certain.

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Grant] #989143
05/10/11 08:08 AM
05/10/11 08:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1 Offline
master
Commando1  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Quote:

By the way i'm 19 years old so...




That's not an easy thing for any teenager to do.
Congrats on rolling up your sleeves and doing some knuckle skinning.

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Grant] #989144
05/10/11 08:16 AM
05/10/11 08:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
dustergirl340 Offline
Chicken Little
dustergirl340  Offline
Chicken Little

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
Yup, exhaust/header leaks often sound like valvetrain noise.

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Grant] #989145
05/10/11 10:25 AM
05/10/11 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,092
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,092
A Banana Republic near you.
What kind of pressure plate, 3 finger or diaphragm? Did you try to grab the pedal and pull it up manually? Did you install the clutch disc in the proper orientation?

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Commando1] #989146
05/10/11 10:26 AM
05/10/11 10:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,092
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,092
A Banana Republic near you.
Quote:

Quote:

By the way i'm 19 years old so...




That's not an easy thing for any teenager to do.
Congrats on rolling up your sleeves and doing some knuckle skinning.




yes it's alot of work , I cut my teeth on an a 4 speed swap when I was 17 on my fathers DAILY DRIVER by myself, car was down for months

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: JohnRR] #989147
05/10/11 02:39 PM
05/10/11 02:39 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 9
pa
G
Grant Offline OP
member
Grant  Offline OP
member
G

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 9
pa
yes it really was a job to do this. also it is a finger style pressure plate. I jacked it up last night and saw that the release bearing just snapped??? him baffled by how this happened. so I ripped the granny out last night everything seems to be fine but the release bearing.and could the valve tap be caused by when I turned over the engine by hand??

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Grant] #989148
05/10/11 04:54 PM
05/10/11 04:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Quote:

him baffled by how this happened. so I ripped the granny out last night




???????????????????????
Uhhh, Typo?

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Grant] #989149
05/10/11 04:54 PM
05/10/11 04:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 612
Nampa, ID
None2Slow Offline
mopar
None2Slow  Offline
mopar

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 612
Nampa, ID
The valve tapping noise could have been the T/O bearing breaking. Was it making this noise before you started the swap? Did you modify the exhaust system, or have to unbolt it? These are other things to look at.

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: None2Slow] #989150
05/10/11 05:01 PM
05/10/11 05:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,978
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
I Win
stumpy  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,978
Grand Prairie,Texas
Ddi you double check to be sure the clutch disk is facing the right way?

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Grant] #989151
05/10/11 05:41 PM
05/10/11 05:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 765
Shoreline, Washington
72roadrunnergtx Offline
super stock
72roadrunnergtx  Offline
super stock

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 765
Shoreline, Washington
Quote:

could the valve tap be caused by when I turned over the engine by hand??



I recently fired up my low mile engine (having all new valve train components) after a couple of month’s downtime during which I had the transmission and clutch out for several changes/upgrades, including verifying bellhousing run-out, involving numerous hand rotations of the crankshaft to complete. Very alarmed at the initial valve train noise, as a matter of fact, shut it down immediately to pull inspection cover off and take a look, it took several minutes to clear up on it's own completely. All lifters subjected to full spring pressures, several times, without oil pressure must have led to almost complete bleed down.


1972 Road Runner GTX 440 6bbl 5-speed
[img]http://72rrgtx.com/carpics/bucket/DSC06730r-1.jpg[/img]
Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Grant] #989152
05/10/11 06:30 PM
05/10/11 06:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
B
buildanother Offline
I Live Here
buildanother  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
If you turned crank backwards during flywheel or pressure plate install, it could have pulled some oil out of a lifter causing brief ticking on startup. Sounds nuts, but it does happen sometimes.

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: buildanother] #989153
05/10/11 06:41 PM
05/10/11 06:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,908
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,908
Ontario, Canada
Quote:

If you turned crank backwards during flywheel or pressure plate install, it could have pulled some oil out of a lifter causing brief ticking on startup.




You're kidding, right ?!?!?!?

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: Stanton] #989154
05/10/11 08:22 PM
05/10/11 08:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
B
buildanother Offline
I Live Here
buildanother  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
Not really.

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: buildanother] #989155
05/10/11 10:26 PM
05/10/11 10:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,092
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,092
A Banana Republic near you.
Quote:

Quote:

If you turned crank backwards during flywheel or pressure plate install, it could have pulled some oil out of a lifter causing brief ticking on startup.




You're kidding, right ?!?!?!?




Quote:

Not really.





Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: JohnRR] #989156
05/10/11 11:01 PM
05/10/11 11:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,978
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
I Win
stumpy  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,978
Grand Prairie,Texas
No way turning the engine backwards will remove oil from a lifter. Lifters don't know or care which way an engine turns.

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: stumpy] #989157
05/11/11 01:20 AM
05/11/11 01:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Quote:

No way turning the engine backwards will remove oil from a lifter. Lifters don't know or care which way an engine turns.




This isn't even an urban myth. Its an urban misunderstanding.

Re: 4 speed conversion problem HELP! [Re: buildanother] #989158
05/11/11 08:51 AM
05/11/11 08:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1 Offline
master
Commando1  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Quote:

If you turned crank backwards during flywheel or pressure plate install, it....



You will never, ever, live this one down.







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1