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Which is harder on an engine? #986678 05/05/11 05:21 PM 05/05/11 05:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon D desomod OP member
desomod OP member D Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon	On a cold start up with Eddy carbs and the fuel evaporation problems they have, my question is; Is it better to use starting fluid to get an immediate and rapid engine start or to crank the starter to pull fuel into the carbs resulting in alot of low RPM cranking/slower start? The concern is oil pressure, cam/lifter wear and general engine wear.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: desomod] #986679 05/05/11 05:24 PM 05/05/11 05:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,060 Pendleton NY T terzmo top fuel
terzmo top fuel T Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,060 Pendleton NY	I NEVER use starting fluid except as a last resort. A well tunes engine will start without causing issues...except for a fresh build(no breakin) I'd rather have it crank and see if oil pressure builds.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: desomod] #986680 05/05/11 05:26 PM 05/05/11 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 299 East Brunswick, NJ F finadk enthusiast
finadk enthusiast F Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 299 East Brunswick, NJ	Really? I have a 600 CFM 1406 on a small block that sits for months and months at a time, and untouched all winter. I pump the gas 6-7 times turn the key and it fires right up every time. Never had to crank it more than 20 seconds and never used starting fluid. Scott Scott 1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed) 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab 1976 Corvette

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: finadk] #986681 05/05/11 05:36 PM 05/05/11 05:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	i think like the other poster, a well tuned carb(s) a few pumps of the pedal is all I've ever needed. Even in this 440-6 w/ a solid roller 588 cam and alum heads, 3 pumps and fire. hold it at 1500 for a minute or 3 and drive. [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: desomod] #986682 05/05/11 06:16 PM 05/05/11 06:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 6,167 Maryland GO_Fish master
GO_Fish master Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 6,167 Maryland	Once the oil pressure comes up, you should have little wear while cranking. Probably a bigger issue would be wearing out the starter. I read once years ago that for every doubling of rpm's, you quadruple the wear. So at 8,000 rpms theres a whole lot more wear going on than at cranking rpms (again, once you have oil pressure). Scott B. "I'm a self-made man... I started with nothing, and I still have most of it!" 68 360 rusty B'cuda 'vert (GO Fish)13.59@ 98.72 mph 69 340 GTS stock 14.18@ 95.60 mph 01 5.9L Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 01 3.5L 300M 16.23@ 86.97 mph

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: GO_Fish] #986683 05/05/11 06:50 PM 05/05/11 06:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,171 Park Forest, IL slantzilla Too Many Posts
slantzilla Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,171 Park Forest, IL	Fix the carb. Leave the starting fluid for the diesel guys. "Everybody funny, now you funny too."

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: slantzilla] #986684 05/05/11 07:10 PM 05/05/11 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,548 Norwich CT USA moparts I Live Here
moparts I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,548 Norwich CT USA	Quote: Eddy carbs and the fuel evaporation problems Not much you can do to fix it other than change carbs. The cranking to start it shouldn't hurt anything. One thing, elec fuel pump would fix the problem Tom , 2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel 2009 Challenger R/T 1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed 1970 Challenger R/T 503/727

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: moparts] #986685 05/05/11 08:59 PM 05/05/11 08:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	IF the car sits a lot ... it could be normal evap. Just fill up the carb from the vent tubes OR use an electric fuel pump to fill.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: dOc !] #986686 05/06/11 01:30 PM 05/06/11 01:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon D desomod OP member
desomod OP member D Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon	Thanks for the input. On my other car with a Holly carb, it's no problem to fill the bowl through the vent with a little funnel. On the Carter (Eddy) carbs, there is no place to do that without pulling the top of the carb off. I know the fix is to install an electric pump to "prime" the carb once it's been sitting. It just seems like the fuel evaporates so quickly that if the car isnt driven for a week, the accelerator pump has nothing to pump. I mostly wanted to get your input on was if it was harmful on the cam to crank the engine until the motor fires.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: desomod] #986687 05/06/11 03:05 PM 05/06/11 03:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada RemCharger master
RemCharger master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada	No, there shouldn't be any additional wear from cranking instead of running. Unless all of the oil ran off the cam and it is bone dry. I just started my car after sitting 7 months and drove away. No worries.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: RemCharger] #986688 05/06/11 04:46 PM 05/06/11 04:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,226 ILLINOIS V volaredon top fuel
volaredon top fuel V Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,226 ILLINOIS	When I had the Edelbrock on my Diplomat, it was "grind city" for the starter to get it going; another 318 with headers and Edelbrock manifold/carb,, my D 250 pickup starts easier than my fuel infested Cherokee does.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: desomod] #986689 05/06/11 04:52 PM 05/06/11 04:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Quote: Thanks for the input. On my other car with a Holly carb, it's no problem to fill the bowl through the vent with a little funnel. On the Carter (Eddy) carbs, there is no place to do that without pulling the top of the carb off. The TQ carb is probably the WORSE ...as far as evap. Just go to the DOLLAR STORE and get a pair of those mustard/ketchup squirt bottles. And YES ...I would not want to crank and CRANK ..... NOT good for the starter OR cam. uNless you have a roller cam.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: desomod] #986690 05/06/11 04:53 PM 05/06/11 04:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can". live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: desomod] #986691 05/06/11 05:05 PM 05/06/11 05:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,388 Pikes Peak Country T TC@HP2 master
TC@HP2 master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,388 Pikes Peak Country	Quote: On my other car with a Holly carb, it's no problem to fill the bowl through the vent with a little funnel. On the Carter (Eddy) carbs, there is no place to do that without pulling the top of the carb off. Actually, there is. The vents are are smallish, rectangular holes right next to the rod covers.You can get gas in the bowl that way, but will need the aforementioned squirt bottle to do it.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: RapidRobert] #986692 05/06/11 05:05 PM 05/06/11 05:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI	Quote: A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can". I was hoping someone would bring this up...........old schoolers I know call it "very caustic" and generally discourage the use of it if you don't have to. R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #986693 05/06/11 05:10 PM 05/06/11 05:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,179 California mickm master
mickm master Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,179 California	Quote: Quote: A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can". I was hoping someone would bring this up...........old schoolers I know call it "very caustic" and generally discourage the use of it if you don't have to. that is what i have heard as well. i just have a little glass bottle filled with gas, and dump a bit down the carbs before firing it if it has sat for a while. that at least gets an initial few seconds of running and primes the carbs. then i don't have to crank nearly as much to get it going.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: mickm] #986694 05/06/11 05:13 PM 05/06/11 05:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Liquid sand ? .... That is not old-school ... that is some-kind of old-wives-tale !!!

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: dOc !] #986695 05/06/11 05:20 PM 05/06/11 05:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: Liquid sand ? Been trying to remem what that posted stated for the reason (true or not true) & all I can remem is something about what the ether does. Doc you're not old school? Best trick I saw was to just loosen the wing nut a bit & dribble the gas down the stud WO having to take the air cleaner off but I'd want to wipe that area on the top flat clean 1st. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: RapidRobert] #986696 05/06/11 06:55 PM 05/06/11 06:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	The only thing that I can think-of that would make using starting-fluid "hard on an engine" ... is that the motor wants to go sky-high in RPMs as you are spraying it. And FORGET about using it on a diesel ...

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: RapidRobert] #986697 05/06/11 07:23 PM 05/06/11 07:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon D desomod OP member
desomod OP member D Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon	It seems you would have to use quite a bit of starting fluid to do harm to the cylinder walls. The all a pain in the a** with the shaker setup to even see the carbs!

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: desomod] #986698 05/06/11 07:27 PM 05/06/11 07:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Quote: It seems you would have to use quite a bit of starting fluid to do harm to the cylinder walls. The all a pain in the a** with the shaker setup to even see the carbs! x 2 .... NO harm on the cyl walls uNless you empty the whole can in there. With your combo ... just get an electric fuel pump and fill-the carbs with a flick of a switch ..

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: mickm] #986699 05/06/11 09:00 PM 05/06/11 09:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ M maximum entropy master
maximum entropy master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ	Quote: Quote: Quote: A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can". I was hoping someone would bring this up...........old schoolers I know call it "very caustic" and generally discourage the use of it if you don't have to. that is what i have heard as well. i just have a little glass bottle filled with gas, and dump a bit down the carbs before firing it if it has sat for a while. that at least gets an initial few seconds of running and primes the carbs. then i don't have to crank nearly as much to get it going. GAS!? DOWN THE CARBURETOR!?? MADNESS!!! for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: RapidRobert] #986700 05/07/11 06:58 AM 05/07/11 06:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,074 detroit, mi POS Dakota super stock
POS Dakota super stock Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,074 detroit, mi	Quote: A guy stated once (on here) that starting fluid is extremely harmful and he explained why (dont remem what he said) & called it "liquid sand in a can". It's a very strong degreaser so yeah, it will wash the oil off and if used excesively can be a problem. But seriously, one or two quick bursts arent going to cause a problem. It's when people give a big long spray of it that you can get a problem. It also evaporates very quick so used in a small quantity it's suspended in the air in large part I would think. A couple quick shots of gas is a great "alternative" solution!

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: POS Dakota] #986701 05/07/11 09:16 AM 05/07/11 09:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: It's a very strong degreaser so yeah, it will wash the oil off and if used excesively can be a problem. But seriously, one or two quick bursts arent going to cause a problem. Yeah that's what I thought but w the poster being adament about it & the way he worded it he made it sound like it was the Devils' tool & you can for sure believe every opinion you read on the 'net live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: RapidRobert] #986702 05/07/11 10:27 AM 05/07/11 10:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,020 Pangaea B5 Bee master
B5 Bee master Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,020 Pangaea	Starting fluid isn't for starting motors, along with a match it's used for seating tire beads to rims.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: dOc !] #986703 05/07/11 10:48 AM 05/07/11 10:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 923 Missouri C convertriple super gas
convertriple super gas C Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 923 Missouri	Quote: Thanks for the input. On my other car with a Holly carb, it's no problem to fill the bowl through the vent with a little funnel. On the Carter (Eddy) carbs, there is no place to do that without pulling the top of the carb off. I use a contact lens solution bottle to fill the vent tube on the primary side. Works good, though I can't say how it is on an edelbrock.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: B5 Bee] #986704 05/07/11 10:59 AM 05/07/11 10:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington	Quote: Starting fluid isn't for starting motors, along with a match it's used for seating tire beads to rims. Wrong. Its for anesthetising (sp) Spiders. Knock them out, play with them, then let them come to. They never look at you the same afterwards though....

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #986705 05/07/11 12:02 PM 05/07/11 12:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Quote: Quote: Starting fluid isn't for starting motors, along with a match it's used for seating tire beads to rims. Wrong. Its for anesthetising (sp) Spiders. Knock them out, play with them, then let them come to. They never look at you the same afterwards though.... NOT a whole lot TO DO in WA ...when it is raining ...HUH ? ..

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: dOc !] #986706 05/07/11 12:17 PM 05/07/11 12:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington	Quote: Quote: Quote: Starting fluid isn't for starting motors, along with a match it's used for seating tire beads to rims. Wrong. Its for anesthetising (sp) Spiders. Knock them out, play with them, then let them come to. They never look at you the same afterwards though.... NOT a whole lot TO DO in WA ...when it is raining ...HUH ? .. when you're dealing with eight legs the possibilities are endless.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #986707 05/07/11 12:35 PM 05/07/11 12:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,712 Moved to N.E. Tennessee GomangoCuda master
GomangoCuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,712 Moved to N.E. Tennessee	One time we had a wasp pestering us as we worked on a car. I went to the work bench to see if we had any thing to kill it with. Starting fluid knocked him right out of the sky. Didn't even kick his legs after he hit the concrete. If he had I would have thrown a match at him. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: GomangoCuda] #986708 05/07/11 02:35 PM 05/07/11 02:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 11,632 SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN 72N96RR I LOVE WEDGIES
72N96RR I LOVE WEDGIES Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 11,632 SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN	I have an Eddie on my 72 440 motor and I started the car every three weeks or so all winter long without an issue ever..Pump the pedal once or twice and it fired...Im talking zero degree days too.. 1972 Road Runner / GTX 440 4spd Dana 3.54 Just about to turn 26K original miles.. A boat, a GMC truck, some Craftsman Tools, LOTS of Zombie Protection, and a few Goldfish.. If you love someone set them free.. If they come back it means nobody else wanted them either..!!

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: 72N96RR] #986709 05/07/11 03:14 PM 05/07/11 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: I have an Eddie on my 72 440 motor and I started the car every three weeks or so all winter long without an issue ever..Pump the pedal once or twice and it fired...Im talking zero degree days too.. Not allot of evaporation taking place on a zero degree day... This was much less of an issue when we had real gasoline... The needs of a carburated vehicle are not given an thought when blending the formulations used today... "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: GomangoCuda] #986710 05/07/11 03:32 PM 05/07/11 03:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Quote: One time we had a wasp pestering us as we worked on a car. I went to the work bench to see if we had any thing to kill it with. Starting fluid knocked him right out of the sky. Didn't even kick his legs after he hit the concrete. If he had I would have thrown a match at him. .... I wonder if this would work against a 64PEST ?

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #986711 05/07/11 10:18 PM 05/07/11 10:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 11,632 SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN 72N96RR I LOVE WEDGIES
72N96RR I LOVE WEDGIES Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 11,632 SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN	Quote: Quote: I have an Eddie on my 72 440 motor and I started the car every three weeks or so all winter long without an issue ever..Pump the pedal once or twice and it fired...Im talking zero degree days too.. Not allot of evaporation taking place on a zero degree day... This was much less of an issue when we had real gasoline... The needs of a carburated vehicle are not given an thought when blending the formulations used today... You nailed it with the REAL GAS comment.. 1972 Road Runner / GTX 440 4spd Dana 3.54 Just about to turn 26K original miles.. A boat, a GMC truck, some Craftsman Tools, LOTS of Zombie Protection, and a few Goldfish.. If you love someone set them free.. If they come back it means nobody else wanted them either..!!

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #986712 05/07/11 10:46 PM 05/07/11 10:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,020 Andrews,In. U.S.of A. 6 67_Satellite super stock
67_Satellite super stock 6 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,020 Andrews,In. U.S.of A.	( Asks date)"Does this handcerchief smell like chloroform to you?"

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: 67_Satellite] #986713 05/08/11 10:37 AM 05/08/11 10:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,814 Connecticut FurryStump master
FurryStump master Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,814 Connecticut	I installed an accusump to pre lube. turn the valve before starting. Close the valve after a ten seconds. Then start. After it is running open the valve to refill the bottle then close it for next time. best of 11.39 at 117 mph 1.60 60’. 68 340 S Barracuda Fastback F.A.S.T [IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/2mnnnnt.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Which is harder on an engine? [Re: desomod] #986714 05/08/11 11:23 PM 05/08/11 11:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,534 North Texas O oleman pro stock
oleman pro stock O Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,534 North Texas	The solution to the perculating/leaking flat fuel bowled Eddy carbs is an electric fuel pump. I added a cheap carter electric pump in series with a carter mechanical pump years ago. Turn on the engine hit the prime switch until you hear the fuel pump noise change and hit the starter. The 440 then starts like it was fuel injected. Eliminated the hard hot starts and the cold hard starts. An electric fuel pump covers up many carb design faults.

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