new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
#97991
08/01/08 01:25 AM
08/01/08 01:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I rebuilt my front end using what I thought were Moog ball joints(I've got to look at my receipts) etc and Just Suspension tubular upper control arms(I would strongly recommend buying the ones from Firm Feel instead, because the Just Suspension ones come unassembled with loose bushings and ball joint. Just Susps charges an additional $200 to supply and install the ball joint and bushings) The Firm Feel ones are fully assembled and look of much higher quality! I have purchased both kinds.
Anyway, I went through and replaced all the wear parts in the front end, then had it aligned. I slowly raised the front of my car a little bit here and there until I finally got the ride height I wanted. Once I got that set, I took it in to have it aligned. They put it on the rack and told my my idler arm and lower ball joints were toast. These were all new parts installed less than 4000 miles ago, and I greased them fully after installing them and then twice since then in 4000 miles.
Any idea what happened?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: 6superbee9]
#97993
08/01/08 01:52 AM
08/01/08 01:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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take it home and check it yourself. make sure they are not trying to sell you parts you don't need.
I had a shop do that to me on my truck.
"nope, we don't do rear ends, but we'll take a look at it and maybe save you $2000 in a new axle"
"ok, why not"
"looks like it's your carrier bearing on the driveshaft, and not the axle at all"
"um...I don't think so, but thanks anyway"
I ended up looking in the axle myself and found that it was the pinion bearings on the axle. they tried selling me stuff I didn't need.
they might have thought "old car, I bet he has old parts, let's get him for ball joints!"
Last edited by 70Cuda383; 08/01/08 01:53 AM.
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: 6superbee9]
#97994
08/01/08 02:01 AM
08/01/08 02:01 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I ordered the "improved" ones from Just Suspension at $118 a pair for my 1970 and installed them on my other car a few days ago. I hope these are of much better quality. I'm going to dig out my reciept and contact the vendor on this one.
It's expensive and time consuming to tear the front end apart and then re-align it because of inferior quality parts. The NAPA dealer near my house says they can get Dana parts, but the price is almost as much as the "improved" ball joints from Just Suspension, and I don't know about the quality of those now either.
My idler arm bushing is also prematurely worn. The front end shop I took it to said the old original idler arms have a better design and can be rebuilt. The new ones have some cheap bearing in the center, where there used to be a heavy duty bushing. He found a guy in Canada that's making new idler arms with the old design, but they are about $107 US. So, keep your old idler arms as it's cheaper to rebuild it.
Once I figure out where I got these bad parts, I'll post it here.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: jbc426]
#97995
08/01/08 02:13 AM
08/01/08 02:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,474 So Cal
autoxcuda
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Quote:
.....
My idler arm bushing is also prematurely worn. The front end shop I took it to said the old original idler arms have a better design and can be rebuilt. The new ones have some cheap bearing in the center, where there used to be a heavy duty bushing. He found a guy in Canada that's making new idler arms with the old design, but they are about $107 US. So, keep your old idler arms as it's cheaper to rebuild it.
Once I figure out where I got these bad parts, I'll post it here.
The original idlers had rubber bushings. The steel bearings are much better and more precise. I'm not buying what the mechanic is saying.
I've seen some inferior idlers. One has a nylon bushing insert. Only asted a few of years.
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#97996
08/01/08 03:05 AM
08/01/08 03:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I thought of that. I told them it had all fresh parts with less than 4000 miles on them. They check everthing before they align it and said the parts were worn. Then they invited me down in the pit to watch while the mechanic moved my wheel all over while it was in the air. He grabbed the tire and wiggled it back and forth. Then pryed it up and down. The play was at the lower ball joint and movement was about 1/8" in each direction off center, plus up and down. They both moved a lot!
I didn't look for the play in the idler arm. He said it was moving up and down when the sterring wheel is moved back and forth. He explained the new bearing design moves up and down significantly after a short while, but is otherwise not sloppy laterally. He says they are weak that way, and it's a problem due to the angle of the tie rods.
The cool thing that happened on my visit there, was that they had to fire up a late 60's Hemi 4-speed Satilite to bring my car in. These guys have worked on my stuff before, and they were good. All they do is front ends, and are happy to show the slop in worn parts. So, I think they do legitimate work...
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: 340SHORTY]
#97998
08/01/08 04:15 AM
08/01/08 04:15 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Quote:
the parts in a JUST SUSP kit are made in China.... They are not MOOG....
I have to look back in my paper work to see where I bought the ball joints from. I can't remember off the top of my head right now as it's been 7 or 8 months since I bought them. When I find out, I'll post the information here.
I did buy a set of their "improved" Caster Curve technology ones for my other car about a month ago, and I installed them the other day. That car won't be on the road for a nother few months though.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: jbc426]
#97999
08/01/08 07:32 AM
08/01/08 07:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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well, that rules out that possibility. at least you have found a good, legitimite shop, especially if they invite you down in the pit to look at the problem, that way you know they aren't BSing you.
I should have known that at the first machine shop I took my engine to. they wouldn't let me in the back because "their insurance won't allow anyone back there, and won't cover anything if I got hurt"
the new shop gave me a grand tour when I walked in the door!
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: jbc426]
#98001
08/01/08 10:14 AM
08/01/08 10:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,816 Alton, IL
Dakota_Don
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before you replace the parts, check them yourself.. cuz i have been thru this before, took my old dodge in, they said it needed everything, I then asked them to show me how they checked them (new parts) and the man checking them checked the joint with them unloaded,(with it in the air)(joints are basically pulled away from thier sockets) and the wheels moved all over the place, and according to the manual some are supposed to be checked loaded(with the weight of the car on the joints)(joints are pushed into thier sockets) then you can check for wear and play and check your wheel bearings, they may be a little loose..
Hope this helps, PM me if you want the instruction from a shop manual on how to check the joints.
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#98003
08/01/08 01:24 PM
08/01/08 01:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Quote:
well, that rules out that possibility. at least you have found a good, legitimite shop, especially if they invite you down in the pit to look at the problem, that way you know they aren't BSing you.
I guess it just goes to show that everything is not always as it seems...
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: jbc426]
#98006
08/01/08 04:19 PM
08/01/08 04:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,833 east side of Ohio
basketcase
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a buddy rebuilt the front end of his '71 road runner a few years ago. Just Suspension parts. doesn't have 4000 miles. just had to rebuild it again. parts were shot.
Dave
1981 Dodge D150 360 auto
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Re: new lower ball joints worn out in 4000 miles?
[Re: jbc426]
#98010
08/01/08 11:19 PM
08/01/08 11:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,287 West Coast, USA
jbc426
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I just stumbled across this information on the differences etween MOOG and the Just Suspension ball joints over on the Slantsix. org page. Interesting reading. You'll have to copy and paste I think.....http://www.cbodydrydock.com/content.php?article.20
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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