|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: rss]
#976673
04/20/11 12:09 AM
04/20/11 12:09 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
JoesMopar
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
|
I'm building one right now, using the same pistons as you, SpeedPro 2315's.
I looked at the expensive piston choices...Ross, Diamond, etc and none of those even got my CR where the 2315's would.
I'm using factory rods, XE268 cam, Perf. RPM intake, Stealth heads, HP manifolds, 650 AVS carb and a 9.78:1 CR and I'm hoping for 375-400HP.
Next time I'm doing another 440, of course after I build my 390 stroker...
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: 451Mopar]
#976676
04/20/11 02:38 AM
04/20/11 02:38 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
mike s
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
|
One of my favorite posts.Icon will make forged 383 or 400 stock stroke flattops for a very decent price.One small problem,I must buy 10 sets of each.If anyone is needing the other 9 sets I'm in.Retail price should be very near the 440 piston they now offer.Still working on another manufacturer that won't hold me to a 10 set minimum.I believe we will be able to settle on a 5 set minimum.Nicer pistons too.Can't believe 440 source isn't all over this problem.
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: mike s]
#976677
04/20/11 09:34 AM
04/20/11 09:34 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,042
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,042
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
One of my favorite posts.Icon will make forged 383 or 400 stock stroke flattops for a very decent price.One small problem,I must buy 10 sets of each.If anyone is needing the other 9 sets I'm in.Retail price should be very near the 440 piston they now offer.Still working on another manufacturer that won't hold me to a 10 set minimum.I believe we will be able to settle on a 5 set minimum.Nicer pistons too.Can't believe 440 source isn't all over this problem.
What's the cost of their 440 piston? Problem with this is not everyone is going to need the same piston and since the 383 is the redheaded stepchild of the big block wedge family those that do build them want a set of pistons for less than a cup of coffee .
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: JohnRR]
#976678
04/20/11 11:37 AM
04/20/11 11:37 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
mike s
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
|
Mancini's sells the Icon 440 FT for about $430.00.Really only two numbers will cover most 383 or 400's.The comp ratio can be controlled by the cyl hd cc used.If you want hi comp or race stuff then buy the a custom piston.
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: mike s]
#976679
04/20/11 11:48 AM
04/20/11 11:48 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 301
California
court9155
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 301
California
|
What is the weight of the piston? ICON is forged, correct?
Id be in for a set if they werent to heavy of a pig and they were forged.
Dan
67 charger
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: court9155]
#976680
04/20/11 12:19 PM
04/20/11 12:19 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
rss
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
|
Quote:
since the 383 is the redheaded stepchild of the big block wedge family those that do build them want a set of pistons for less than a cup of coffee .
Not looking for a cheap piston, but it doesn't seem you should have to go custom just to get a flat top with a decent compression height and is compatible with the current selection (1) of aftermarket rods. Diamonds normally run about $650 a set, so what does a custom set go for $750 or more? Seems hard to justify to warm up a 383 for your street cruiser. Guess that's why most are using KB400s with a dome.
Since they mostly make high-end stuff for performance applications, not sure that I understand why Diamond makes makes theirs with a 1.916 CH.
Then, on the other side of the equation, we have one option for forged rods, Eagle, and they can't be bothered to build a rod that can be used with a pressed wrist pin.
I had long ago realized that the piston selection for 383s was bad, but didn't figure out until recently that the rod selection is even worse. 
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: mike s]
#976682
04/20/11 03:03 PM
04/20/11 03:03 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
rss
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
|
Just got off the phone with Diamond. As John suggested, they will do a pin height change (semi-custom) for an added charge. Cost is $50 for the set and takes about 2 week lead time to get them done. The guy at Diamond said they could bump the CH up by 0.020" or more, so it is possible to optain 1.932" CH of the 68-69 HP pistons. I may be going this route. I mean, what's another $400 to rebuild a motor that I won't be able to afford to run due to gas prices anyway. 
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: rss]
#976683
04/21/11 01:45 PM
04/21/11 01:45 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 113
utah
jjl
member
|
member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 113
utah
|
What about offset grinding the crank?How much to obtain zero deck?Is it possible?
formally orangemonster
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: jjl]
#976684
04/21/11 11:33 PM
04/21/11 11:33 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
JoesMopar
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
|
Quote:
What about offset grinding the crank?How much to obtain zero deck?Is it possible?
Yes it's possible, I did it with the SpeedPro 2315's. Took .010" off and got pretty close. With the 2315 the piston is .0145" in the hole IIRC.
Find your deck height. Then take your rod length, compression height, and HALF the stroke and add the three together. Then subtract them from the deck height, that should be how far down in the bore your piston will be. Then you can see how much you need to shave off the block or how much more CH you need your piston to be
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: rss]
#976685
04/22/11 07:34 AM
04/22/11 07:34 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
|
Quote:
Is the selection of aftermarket 383 parts really as bad as I think?
If using the Sealed Power forged flat tops (2315)is my only option to use reconditioned factory rods since the 2315s use a press fit wrist pin?
Appears that Eagle only makes rods for a floating wrist pin, which means you'd be forced to use a KB or Diamond piston, right???
Any other options out there that I am missing? Just having a hard time believing the pi$$ poor selection in 383 parts out there. No wonder everyone is building a stroker these days.
Hold on a sec. The B engine still has some good support. For instance, Diamond pistons makes some nice off the shelf pistons for 383s in particular. Look at building a 383 with 440 rods and Diamond piston #51907 for a lightweight piston/pin combo. You would have to use aftermarket 440 rods as this piston uses 0.990 piston pins. Although Diamond could custom make the same set with the 1.094 factory pins if you wanted to use LY rods. 
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: CompSyn]
#976686
04/22/11 07:23 PM
04/22/11 07:23 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
rss
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
|
Quote:
Hold on a sec. The B engine still has some good support. For instance, Diamond pistons makes some nice off the shelf pistons for 383s in particular. Look at building a 383 with 440 rods and Diamond piston #51907 for a lightweight piston/pin combo.
Not really. The compression height on their off the shelf pistons is so low that you wind up with a pretty anemic compression ratio unless using heads with 72cc combustion chambers. Why pay $650 for new pistons to wind up with an 8.8 or 8.9 compression ratio even with the longer 440 rods?
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: rss]
#976687
04/22/11 11:25 PM
04/22/11 11:25 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
mike s
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
|
Will people pop for a forged 383 piston in the $450.00-500.00 range? I want to do the deal but I know as soon as I do the big guys will undercut me and end the deal especially if I have Icon do them.My other supplier makes a better piston but I would like to have some reassurance of exclusivity (no way with Icon).Flat top 1.932 comp dist,valve notches and lightweight 10.5 CR with 80CC heads (for aluminum heads)and 9.5 CR with 86cc heads for iron heads.) 9.980 deck height for 0 deck, 1/16 1/16 /3/16 rings w/ 1.094 pin.I think this is the best formula as the machinist will have some room to adjust the compression ratio.Your suggestions are welcome.
Std 383-400 con rod.Numbers shown are not exact as I don't have the cc's for the notches yet.Likely about 4.5 cc's
Last edited by mike s; 04/22/11 11:31 PM.
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: rss]
#976688
04/22/11 11:40 PM
04/22/11 11:40 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Hold on a sec. The B engine still has some good support. For instance, Diamond pistons makes some nice off the shelf pistons for 383s in particular. Look at building a 383 with 440 rods and Diamond piston #51907 for a lightweight piston/pin combo.
Not really. The compression height on their off the shelf pistons is so low that you wind up with a pretty anemic compression ratio unless using heads with 72cc combustion chambers. Why pay $650 for new pistons to wind up with an 8.8 or 8.9 compression ratio even with the longer 440 rods?
Well, I think it's more of the age old 383 compression battle rather than a piston issue. For example, I've been told by a well known engine builder and site sponsor here that a typical B block cleans up with a deck height of around 9.965". Diamond piston #51907 has a CD of 1.516". At that deck height and CD height, the piston would be about 0.006" above deck. Then for example if you're using 906 heads cut 0.020" to yield approximately 83cc combustion chambers, you could conceivably end up at around 9.5:1 compression give or take. That's still not a spectacular compression ratio, but not bad for an iron headed pump gas driver. I guess if you wanted more compression, you be looking at close chambered heads like you mentioned or domed pistons to achieve more compression in the baby big block.
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: CompSyn]
#976689
04/22/11 11:56 PM
04/22/11 11:56 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
mike s
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
|
Most blocks I have done clean up easily and are square at 9.980.Uncut most blocks are 9.92-10.05 I am sure there are exceptions of course.I've done 6 in the last year and only one had to be cut under 9.980 and that was due to the piston I used.
1.932 cd
1.690 1/2 stroke
6.358 rod length
______
9.980 deck height for 0 deck
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: mike s]
#976690
04/23/11 12:11 AM
04/23/11 12:11 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
|
Quote:
Most blocks I have done clean up easily and are square at 9.980.Uncut most blocks are 9.92-10.05 I am sure there are exceptions of course.I've done 6 in the last year and only one had to be cut under 9.980 and that was due to the piston I used.
1.932 cd
1.690 1/2 stroke
6.358 rod length
______
9.980 deck height for 0 deck
Interesting, what type of B blocks are you referring to?
Recently, I asked Mike Chenoweth about B Blocks.
This is what he said:
"They are all over the map. Most of those clean up somewhere around 9.965, some will go 9.970 but I have had more low decks be under 9.980 than over." - Mike Chenoweth
Now I asked about 400 blocks in particular but Mike states “low decks” plural. Maybe 383 blocks are more accurate to the factory spec than the 400s?
|
|
|
Re: 383 Piston/Rod Combos - Am I Missing Something???
[Re: CompSyn]
#976691
04/23/11 10:30 AM
04/23/11 10:30 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
mike s
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
|
Could be.2 of the 6 were 400 blocks.I agree they are all over the place.Either way I could adjust the CD to suit.I was hoping to avoid excessive deck machining and maximize the quench.I wanted to begin with the 383 block then later offer a FT for the 400 block if there was a demand.
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
|
|
|
|
|
