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Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
#967938
04/06/11 06:49 PM
04/06/11 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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I have the origional intake and thermo quad on my 76 Winnie and just not satisfied with the way it work's or performs,intake is a smogger unit and the TQ has surging issues, seem's like the motor starts out pulling good when you first hit the gas and then flattens out after about 30 ft of travel and seem's lazy after that and get a whopping 4.5 mpg,,this thing need's help and would like some suggestions on a carb and intake selection. 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: dartman366]
#967940
04/06/11 08:20 PM
04/06/11 08:20 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
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I Live Here
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Florida
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I have a 78 mh 440 that had a stock smogger intake and thermobog swaped it for a weiand action plus with a 650cfm carter performance carb of course shaveing 60 foot of MH,adding the intake carb,striping down a short bed truck adding 3.91sg,manual VB,mono spring with lift bars it got plenty of torque with a stock 440,i am sure i will get a little better mpgs than that or try a Q-jet,holley spredbore 650 double pumper thermobog replacement those both worked good on mine when first getting it running 
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: dartman366]
#967942
04/06/11 08:29 PM
04/06/11 08:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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You have a fuel delivery problem. It's delivering the wrong kind of fuel. 
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: feets]
#967944
04/06/11 09:26 PM
04/06/11 09:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Quote:
You have a fuel delivery problem.
It's delivering the wrong kind of fuel.
 Yeah ain't that the truth,, but it is what it is and I have to deal with it, this Thermo was sent out and rebuilt by what was supposed to be people that knew them, this thing cold start's and idles perfect, and rev's with no stumble's or issues but has what I would call a surge under load, the previous two owner's both said they rebuilt the carb and still had the same issue as me, so I think the carb has issues,,,Doc I will get you a carb number in the morning, but as far as I know it is origional to the motorhome, and also it has a set of headers and dual's so no heat riser.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: dartman366]
#967945
04/06/11 09:30 PM
04/06/11 09:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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hey on the bright side,,,I did get the gas guage fixed today,,,and you won't in your wildest dream's guess what was wrong. 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: dartman366]
#967946
04/06/11 10:02 PM
04/06/11 10:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 396
California, USA
Phil Saran
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 396
California, USA
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You were missing the ground strap on the fuel line at the
gas tank?
If you are going to make changes and you don't have to
worry too much about smog stuff go with a Edelbrock Performer
intake and carb.
Phil Saran
Parker, Colorado
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: Phil Saran]
#967947
04/06/11 10:23 PM
04/06/11 10:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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actually,,,,,just the opposite, there was a wierd looking bracket laying on top of the tank across the sending unit post and grounding it out, I was in process of taking the tank out to put in a new sending unit and was investigating what I needed to do to get it out and noticed this bracket just lsying there on top of the tank so I took it off and tried the guage for the heck of it,,,,,and it worked. 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: dartman366]
#967948
04/06/11 10:36 PM
04/06/11 10:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,431
Florida STAYcation
BeEtLeJuIcE !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
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Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Doc I will get you a carb number in the morning, but as far as I know it is origional to the motorhome, and also it has a set of headers and dual's so no heat riser.
d-man ... it sounds like there is an issue on the primary side of the carb ...with surging. PROBABLY the wrong size rods in it.
I would suggest getting a spark plug reading at diff stages of running ...or BETTER YET .. put a wide-band 02 on it.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#967949
04/06/11 10:41 PM
04/06/11 10:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Quote:
Quote:
Doc I will get you a carb number in the morning, but as far as I know it is origional to the motorhome, and also it has a set of headers and dual's so no heat riser.
d-man ... it sounds like there is an issue on the primary side of the carb ...with surging. PROBABLY the wrong size rods in it.
I would suggest getting a spark plug reading at diff stages of running ...or BETTER YET .. put a wide-band 02 on it.
don't know anybody that has a wide band,,,is there any good reference book's that would tell me what I should have in it,,,,,,,guess I should of bought that $20.00 swap meet thermo after all.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: dartman366]
#967950
04/06/11 11:15 PM
04/06/11 11:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,431
Florida STAYcation
BeEtLeJuIcE !
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,431
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
don't know anybody that has a wide band,,,is there any good reference book's that would tell me what I should have in it,,,,,,,guess I should of bought that $20.00 swap meet thermo after all.
I don't have a wide-band yet either ... but I am going to get one.
The surging and poor mpg really don't go together(surging is lean - poor mpg is rich) ...uNless the carb tuning is totally messed up. At what speed is the surging taking place ?
Get a normal speed and high-speed read on the plugs for now. And you can ALWAY do better on the intake manifold.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#967953
04/06/11 11:42 PM
04/06/11 11:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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all new filters and new fuel pump, checked for kink's and smashed lines too.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#967955
04/06/11 11:59 PM
04/06/11 11:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Quote:
HOW did the filters look? ... metal ones ? ....did you pull em apart?
one at the carb was steel, small amount of verry verry fine silt came out, each tank has a clear chrysler type inline and they looked good like they had just been changed.  but I changed them anyway.
Last edited by dartman366; 04/07/11 12:00 AM.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#967957
04/07/11 12:26 AM
04/07/11 12:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#967959
04/07/11 11:29 AM
04/07/11 11:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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luckily I don't take it far from home.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: Twostick]
#967962
04/07/11 01:03 PM
04/07/11 01:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Quote:
I'd eliminate the obvious like fuel delivery and vacuum leaks. Assume nothing. New fuel pumps can under-perform and that thick base gasket for the TQ will leak if it's re-used too often. What is the timing at? Vacuum advance? The stock intake is WAY better than most will give credit for so it would be the last thing I would change. Can you borrow a TQ that is known good?
Kevin
new base gasket when the carb was put back on, I am not sure of the timing, I will have to investigate as to how difficult it will be to find the timing marks, then figure out where it should be set at, I would even concider a non smogger stock intake, as far as a different carb I will need to talk to a few friend's and see if they have somthing.
As far as YOU Ted, I have a spare Dommy for the car and I have seen M1's at swap meets so don't get me thinkin'........how about a tunnel ram and twin 750's. 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: Twostick]
#967964
04/09/11 08:56 PM
04/09/11 08:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Checked the dist today and the advance is operable, I put some suction on it and it moves, but for the life of me I do not have a clue where the timing tab is, I have looked high and low and the only thing I have found is what look's like a metal tab sticking out under the water pump and there is no way to put a light on it if in fact that is the timing tab,,,I did find what I believe is the carb number stamped on the left rear (driver side) of the lower flange,, those number's are 9036S 290 5 does those number's mean anything to anyone? In response to a previous post, there was not an air pump on this motor when I got it but that don't mean there wasn't one before, there is some sort of fitting/hole,gnarly looking thing in the bottom of the manifold, isn't that the port for the EGR valve??
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#967966
04/09/11 10:35 PM
04/09/11 10:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Quote:
d-man ... check out the timing THROUGH the hole in the top of the bell housing of the trans. BUT ... I would just time-it by ear. Give it timing til it starts to rattle... then back-it-off.
The 9036 is a good carb. You want to borrow(to test and maybe buy-it if you like-it?) an SP2P intake ? ... I will send you one .. you just pay the shipping charges.
Guess I need to do a little learnin', so in the morning I will go searching for a hole in the trans bell housing,  I thought about timing by ear also, I did do a search and came up with the carb being a 75-76 truck w/california calibration,,sound's like I need to find a non california carb w/ standard calibration,,,,I will think your offer over, thank's
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: dartman366]
#967967
04/09/11 11:32 PM
04/09/11 11:32 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
Checked the dist today and the advance is operable, I put some suction on it and it moves, but for the life of me I do not have a clue where the timing tab is, I have looked high and low and the only thing I have found is what look's like a metal tab sticking out under the water pump and there is no way to put a light on it if in fact that is the timing tab,,,I did find what I believe is the carb number stamped on the left rear (driver side) of the lower flange,, those number's are 9036S 290 5 does those number's mean anything to anyone?
In response to a previous post, there was not an air pump on this motor when I got it but that don't mean there wasn't one before, there is some sort of fitting/hole,gnarly looking thing in the bottom of the manifold, isn't that the port for the EGR valve??
You're right about the EGR. Don't know what I was thinking.  I've never set the timing on a motorhome but I know that there is a 1+" hole in the top of the bell housing to shine your light thru.
Re: the advance. Do the weights move too? I think the vacuum can move the plate even if the weights are seized but I've already been wrong today. Something else to check.
Kevin
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#967969
04/10/11 01:07 AM
04/10/11 01:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Quote:
d-man ... good point checking the distrib weight action. Also ...what does the tail-pipe look like? .. black soot? A little brain-fade on my part(for not mentioning it before) - the floats in the carb could have sunk.
Yeah the pipes are black and sooty, I have never had a TQ apart before but look's like I need to find out how to work on them.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: dartman366]
#967970
04/10/11 02:46 AM
04/10/11 02:46 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,431
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Quote:
d-man ... good point checking the distrib weight action. Also ...what does the tail-pipe look like? .. black soot? A little brain-fade on my part(for not mentioning it before) - the floats in the carb could have sunk.
Yeah the pipes are black and sooty, I have never had a TQ apart before but look's like I need to find out how to work on them.
ALL you have to do is go to a BIG 'brary and they either have or can get-you a FSM that should have the TQ data in it ...
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !]
#967973
04/10/11 03:24 AM
04/10/11 03:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,052
Madera, CA.
MowP4rsn
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,052
Madera, CA.
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Quote:
Yo Mo ......I have never seen that Federal-Mo edition of TQ data. I will have to print that out ...when I get to the 'brary.
But STILL ...from what I saw .. the FSM is BESTer.
But THX ferr 'da link ..Mo!
Yerrrr welcome, and there is a FSM on the Imperial Club site, too, look under the 1973 MY link 
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Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's
[Re: MowP4rsn]
#967974
04/10/11 07:11 PM
04/10/11 07:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
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Found the timing hole today, it was hidden under the panel they attached the ignition box and the voltage reg to and bolted it using the top two bellhousing bolt's so it made it fun to find,, throwed a lite on it and could not find a mark on the converter to line up to the mark on the hole, so I just bumped the timing up what appeared a couple of degree's and the idle smoothed out even more, I thought it idled nice before, throttle seem's a little more responsive, also if you start it up after it has warmed up then shut it off and let it sit for a few hours, you can hit the starter and within a 1/2 revolution it is running,,guess now I need to hook up and take her for a tow. 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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