Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's

Posted By: dartman366

Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/06/11 10:49 PM

I have the origional intake and thermo quad on my 76 Winnie and just not satisfied with the way it work's or performs,intake is a smogger unit and the TQ has surging issues, seem's like the motor starts out pulling good when you first hit the gas and then flattens out after about 30 ft of travel and seem's lazy after that and get a whopping 4.5 mpg,,this thing need's help and would like some suggestions on a carb and intake selection.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/06/11 10:59 PM

4.5 mpg ? ... I got 6.6 with a pig-fat Berri-crab that was so rich(when I picked it up) ... my wife could not follow behind me.

What # is the carb ? .... R U sure the exhaust flapper is free ? (Best even to TIE IT open)

And there ARE much better choices as far as intakes.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 12:20 AM

I have a 78 mh 440 that had a stock smogger intake and thermobog

swaped it for a weiand action plus with a 650cfm carter performance carb

of course shaveing 60 foot of MH,adding the intake carb,striping down a short bed truck adding 3.91sg,manual VB,mono spring with lift bars

it got plenty of torque with a stock 440,i am sure i will get a little better mpgs than that

or try a Q-jet,holley spredbore 650 double pumper thermobog replacement those both worked good on mine when first getting it running

Attached picture 6572185-440alumintake.jpg

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 12:29 AM

scratchN ..... suggesting a Q-J ? ... go sit in the corner - NO SOUP ferr U !

thermobog ? ...will you ever learn NOT TO remove the secondary AV flapper ? ....or maybe get the proper tool to adjust it ..??

...

That's right ...I said it ...

Posted By: feets

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 12:29 AM

You have a fuel delivery problem.

It's delivering the wrong kind of fuel.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 01:21 AM

Quote:

the TQ has surging issues, and would like some suggestions on a carb and intake selection.

Carb issue, I'd have Demonsizzler sell you a super quality pro prepped TQ & keep your intake to minimize your downtime then w it running good you'll b in a more neutral frame of mind to decide if you want to sink $$ into other areas of it.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 01:26 AM

Quote:

You have a fuel delivery problem.

It's delivering the wrong kind of fuel.

Yeah ain't that the truth,, but it is what it is and I have to deal with it, this Thermo was sent out and rebuilt by what was supposed to be people that knew them, this thing cold start's and idles perfect, and rev's with no stumble's or issues but has what I would call a surge under load, the previous two owner's both said they rebuilt the carb and still had the same issue as me, so I think the carb has issues,,,Doc I will get you a carb number in the morning, but as far as I know it is origional to the motorhome, and also it has a set of headers and dual's so no heat riser.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 01:30 AM

hey on the bright side,,,I did get the gas guage fixed today,,,and you won't in your wildest dream's guess what was wrong.

Posted By: Phil Saran

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 02:02 AM

You were missing the ground strap on the fuel line at the
gas tank?

If you are going to make changes and you don't have to
worry too much about smog stuff go with a Edelbrock Performer
intake and carb.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 02:23 AM

actually,,,,,just the opposite, there was a wierd looking bracket laying on top of the tank across the sending unit post and grounding it out, I was in process of taking the tank out to put in a new sending unit and was investigating what I needed to do to get it out and noticed this bracket just lsying there on top of the tank so I took it off and tried the guage for the heck of it,,,,,and it worked.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 02:36 AM

Quote:

Doc I will get you a carb number in the morning, but as far as I know it is origional to the motorhome, and also it has a set of headers and dual's so no heat riser.

d-man ... it sounds like there is an issue on the primary side of the carb ...with surging. PROBABLY the wrong size rods in it.

I would suggest getting a spark plug reading at diff stages of running ...or BETTER YET .. put a wide-band 02 on it.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 02:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Doc I will get you a carb number in the morning, but as far as I know it is origional to the motorhome, and also it has a set of headers and dual's so no heat riser.

d-man ... it sounds like there is an issue on the primary side of the carb ...with surging. PROBABLY the wrong size rods in it.

I would suggest getting a spark plug reading at diff stages of running ...or BETTER YET .. put a wide-band 02 on it.

don't know anybody that has a wide band,,,is there any good reference book's that would tell me what I should have in it,,,,,,,guess I should of bought that $20.00 swap meet thermo after all.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 03:15 AM

Quote:

don't know anybody that has a wide band,,,is there any good reference book's that would tell me what I should have in it,,,,,,,guess I should of bought that $20.00 swap meet thermo after all.

I don't have a wide-band yet either ... but I am going to get one.

The surging and poor mpg really don't go together(surging is lean - poor mpg is rich) ...uNless the carb tuning is totally messed up. At what speed is the surging taking place ?

Get a normal speed and high-speed read on the plugs for now. And you can ALWAY do better on the intake manifold.

Posted By: U code RR

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 03:24 AM

I'd make sure you don't have a fuel delivery problem before you start replacing carbs & manifolds. If the previous owners experienced the same sort of problems it may be as simple as a plugged fuel tank vent. Remove or loosen the gas cap and see if that helps. I'm sure you checked the fuel filter and pump already

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 03:33 AM

Fuel delivery ? ..possible .. but that would not just go-away with getting off the throttle like a WOT miss would be.

NOT a bad idea to check this with an actual gauge ...

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 03:42 AM

all new filters and new fuel pump, checked for kink's and smashed lines too.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 03:45 AM

HOW did the filters look? ... metal ones ? ....did you pull em apart?

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 03:59 AM

Quote:

HOW did the filters look? ... metal ones ? ....did you pull em apart?

one at the carb was steel, small amount of verry verry fine silt came out, each tank has a clear chrysler type inline and they looked good like they had just been changed.

but I changed them anyway.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 04:12 AM

How many tanks do you have ? .... the best-bet is to put one of those TRACTOR GLASS FILTERS on first ... then run it through one of the clear ones.

You can get a bunch of junk in those tanks. How large are yours?

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 04:26 AM

40 gal main, 17 reserve

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 04:34 AM

57 gallons ... and 5 mpg !! ... not very far.

Mine are 38 side ... 93 in-the-rear

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 03:29 PM

luckily I don't take it far from home.

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 03:34 PM

M-1 and a Dominator..

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 04:52 PM

I'd eliminate the obvious like fuel delivery and vacuum leaks. Assume nothing. New fuel pumps can under-perform and that thick base gasket for the TQ will leak if it's re-used too often. What is the timing at? Vacuum advance? The stock intake is WAY better than most will give credit for so it would be the last thing I would change. Can you borrow a TQ that is known good?

Kevin

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 05:03 PM

Quote:

I'd eliminate the obvious like fuel delivery and vacuum leaks. Assume nothing. New fuel pumps can under-perform and that thick base gasket for the TQ will leak if it's re-used too often. What is the timing at? Vacuum advance? The stock intake is WAY better than most will give credit for so it would be the last thing I would change. Can you borrow a TQ that is known good?

Kevin

new base gasket when the carb was put back on, I am not sure of the timing, I will have to investigate as to how difficult it will be to find the timing marks, then figure out where it should be set at, I would even concider a non smogger stock intake, as far as a different carb I will need to talk to a few friend's and see if they have somthing.

As far as YOU Ted, I have a spare Dommy for the car and I have seen M1's at swap meets so don't get me thinkin'........how about a tunnel ram and twin 750's.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/07/11 06:00 PM

All you need to do is block off the air injector in the floor of the intake you have if it has an air pump. It is really a good intake for your intended application. Mechanical advance in the distributor could be seized. That would explain the OK start and idle but falls on its face as soon as you start to move. Also explains the lousy fuel mileage.

Kevin

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 12:56 AM

Checked the dist today and the advance is operable, I put some suction on it and it moves, but for the life of me I do not have a clue where the timing tab is, I have looked high and low and the only thing I have found is what look's like a metal tab sticking out under the water pump and there is no way to put a light on it if in fact that is the timing tab,,,I did find what I believe is the carb number stamped on the left rear (driver side) of the lower flange,, those number's are 9036S 290 5 does those number's mean anything to anyone?
In response to a previous post, there was not an air pump on this motor when I got it but that don't mean there wasn't one before, there is some sort of fitting/hole,gnarly looking thing in the bottom of the manifold, isn't that the port for the EGR valve??

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 01:52 AM

d-man ... check out the timing THROUGH the hole in the top of the bell housing of the trans. BUT ... I would just time-it by ear. Give it timing til it starts to rattle... then back-it-off.

The 9036 is a good carb. You want to borrow(to test and maybe buy-it if you like-it?) an SP2P intake ? ... I will send you one .. you just pay the shipping charges.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 02:35 AM

Quote:

d-man ... check out the timing THROUGH the hole in the top of the bell housing of the trans. BUT ... I would just time-it by ear. Give it timing til it starts to rattle... then back-it-off.

The 9036 is a good carb. You want to borrow(to test and maybe buy-it if you like-it?) an SP2P intake ? ... I will send you one .. you just pay the shipping charges.

Guess I need to do a little learnin', so in the morning I will go searching for a hole in the trans bell housing,

I thought about timing by ear also, I did do a search and came up with the carb being a 75-76 truck w/california calibration,,sound's like I need to find a non california carb w/ standard calibration,,,,I will think your offer over, thank's

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 03:32 AM

Quote:

Checked the dist today and the advance is operable, I put some suction on it and it moves, but for the life of me I do not have a clue where the timing tab is, I have looked high and low and the only thing I have found is what look's like a metal tab sticking out under the water pump and there is no way to put a light on it if in fact that is the timing tab,,,I did find what I believe is the carb number stamped on the left rear (driver side) of the lower flange,, those number's are 9036S 290 5 does those number's mean anything to anyone?
In response to a previous post, there was not an air pump on this motor when I got it but that don't mean there wasn't one before, there is some sort of fitting/hole,gnarly looking thing in the bottom of the manifold, isn't that the port for the EGR valve??

You're right about the EGR. Don't know what I was thinking.

I've never set the timing on a motorhome but I know that there is a 1+" hole in the top of the bell housing to shine your light thru.

Re: the advance. Do the weights move too? I think the vacuum can move the plate even if the weights are seized but I've already been wrong today.

Something else to check.

Kevin

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 04:08 AM

d-man ... good point checking the distrib weight action. Also ...what does the tail-pipe look like? .. black soot? A little brain-fade on my part(for not mentioning it before) - the floats in the carb could have sunk.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 05:07 AM

Quote:

d-man ... good point checking the distrib weight action. Also ...what does the tail-pipe look like? .. black soot? A little brain-fade on my part(for not mentioning it before) - the floats in the carb could have sunk.

Yeah the pipes are black and sooty, I have never had a TQ apart before but look's like I need to find out how to work on them.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 06:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

d-man ... good point checking the distrib weight action. Also ...what does the tail-pipe look like? .. black soot? A little brain-fade on my part(for not mentioning it before) - the floats in the carb could have sunk.

Yeah the pipes are black and sooty, I have never had a TQ apart before but look's like I need to find out how to work on them.

ALL you have to do is go to a BIG 'brary and they either have or can get-you a FSM that should have the TQ data in it ...

Posted By: MowP4rsn

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 06:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

d-man ... good point checking the distrib weight action. Also ...what does the tail-pipe look like? .. black soot? A little brain-fade on my part(for not mentioning it before) - the floats in the carb could have sunk.

Yeah the pipes are black and sooty, I have never had a TQ apart before but look's like I need to find out how to work on them.

ALL you have to do is go to a BIG 'brary and they either have or can get-you a FSM that should have the TQ data in it ...

Better yet, rather than going to a library, go to the Imperial Club site and find this info on ThermoQuads

Doc, you shoulda KNOWN better

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 07:00 AM

Yo Mo ......I have never seen that Federal-Mo edition of TQ data. I will have to print that out ...when I get to the 'brary.

But STILL ...from what I saw .. the FSM is BESTer.

But THX ferr 'da link ..Mo!

Posted By: MowP4rsn

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 07:24 AM

Quote:

Yo Mo ......I have never seen that Federal-Mo edition of TQ data. I will have to print that out ...when I get to the 'brary.

But STILL ...from what I saw .. the FSM is BESTer.

But THX ferr 'da link ..Mo!

Yerrrr welcome, and there is a FSM on the Imperial Club site, too, look under the 1973 MY link

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Motorhome 440,,carb@intake,,what choice's - 04/10/11 11:11 PM

Found the timing hole today, it was hidden under the panel they attached the ignition box and the voltage reg to and bolted it using the top two bellhousing bolt's so it made it fun to find,, throwed a lite on it and could not find a mark on the converter to line up to the mark on the hole, so I just bumped the timing up what appeared a couple of degree's and the idle smoothed out even more, I thought it idled nice before, throttle seem's a little more responsive, also if you start it up after it has warmed up then shut it off and let it sit for a few hours, you can hit the starter and within a 1/2 revolution it is running,,guess now I need to hook up and take her for a tow.