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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#949572
03/12/11 11:42 PM
03/12/11 11:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
The cam has a 108 lsa,they recommend installing it at 104 intake centerline.I would run it at least that far advanced with 11 to 1 compression,it has a really late intake closing point. 
Keith
  With a 3300# and 4.11 gear you need a strong bottom and mid range.
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#949573
03/13/11 12:23 AM
03/13/11 12:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,233
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,233
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
I'm fishing for opinions on camshaft phasing here. I have the Comp .650/.650, 290/290 BB cam in a low deck 499 at 11:1 compression. The catalog says 11:1 and above. Heads are heavily ported Stage 6 with Max Wedge window but short valves, minimum cross section around 3.1 square inches. The cam card says ICL @ 108 degrees with 108 lobe separation. The converter stalls a little over 5000. The weight is around 3300lbs with 4.11 gears and 29x12 tires.
I take it the cam your asking about is the Comp Cams 324A-8 solid lifter cam (I had to get a old catalog out to find that grind) if so that is a lot of duration(290@.050) at .050 for that motor combination I would not run that cam in that motor, I would have selected the XTQ286S-8 or the TL304S-8 grinds, maybe even the MM 305S-10 but not the one your asking about I agree on advancing that cam to 4 to 6 degrees advanced on the intake side, make sure and check piston to valve clearances at every lobe location you try, make sure you have enough P to V clearances  good luck, let us now what you decide and find
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#949574
03/13/11 01:36 AM
03/13/11 01:36 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
OP
New user name, Same old jerk!
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OP
New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Quote:
The cam has a 108 lsa,they recommend installing it at 104 intake centerline.I would run it at least that far advanced with 11 to 1 compression,it has a really late intake closing point.
Keith
I had meant to attach this screenshot of the cam card. It shows the 108 centerline that I had used last time I installed it. You're all getting at why I'm asking about it, the compression/duration angle. The reason I didn't advance it last time is that with a 4.15" stroke and a 5000+ stall I figured I'd have plenty of output from stall speed and up. It did run a 1.40 60' time. I have the ability to take out power in first gear and usually set it up to run about a 1.55 60' so as to not test the track on every run. Also, I'm going from a Holley 9381 (830) to a 9377 (1150).
Last edited by Drag Stripper; 03/13/11 01:46 AM.
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#949575
03/13/11 08:33 AM
03/13/11 08:33 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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This technically being the race section, people are going to give recommendations to get the best power with what you are giving them to work with. If the advice here causes you to have traction issues evey pass, then that's a chassis issue and will need to be addressed in another post. I would install it @ 104º to start with.
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#949576
03/13/11 10:13 AM
03/13/11 10:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
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Quote:
The cam has a 108 lsa,they recommend installing it at 104 intake centerline.I would run it at least that far advanced with 11 to 1 compression,it has a really late intake closing point.
Keith
That cam has so much duration at 0.050", it really wants over 12 CR and more would be better. It will run OK, but low end will be softer. With the right parts, it will like more rpm on the top.
Check the actual converter stall with that combo. It would like 5500, but if it is less than 5000; make a change.
And you likely will fing the initial hit softer with the Dominator carb vs the 830. But it should improve the max horsepower and I think it is a good change.
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#949578
03/13/11 07:40 PM
03/13/11 07:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
ky
68roadrunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
ky
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm fishing for opinions on camshaft phasing here. I have the Comp .650/.650, 290/290 BB cam in a low deck 499 at 11:1 compression. The catalog says 11:1 and above. Heads are heavily ported Stage 6 with Max Wedge window but short valves, minimum cross section around 3.1 square inches. The cam card says ICL @ 108 degrees with 108 lobe separation. The converter stalls a little over 5000. The weight is around 3300lbs with 4.11 gears and 29x12 tires.
I take it the cam your asking about is the Comp Cams 324A-8 solid lifter cam (I had to get a old catalog out to find that grind) if so that is a lot of duration(290@.050) at .050 for that motor combination I would not run that cam in that motor, I would have selected the XTQ286S-8 or the TL304S-8 grinds, maybe even the MM 305S-10 but not the one your asking about I agree on advancing that cam to 4 to 6 degrees advanced on the intake side, make sure and check piston to valve clearances at every lobe location you try, make sure you have enough P to V clearances good luck, let us now what you decide and find
everybody doesnt have the available of parts you must have. we are still running the old school parts, from the mccandless days. 
hope the op finds the answer i am in the same boat 
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: 68roadrunner]
#949579
03/13/11 10:11 PM
03/13/11 10:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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I have posted before that I don't think the Comp 650 looks like a good choice for most builds.Others builders swear it is a great and consistent grind in most any big block.I bought one a couple months ago to test on the dyno when I can get to it. Let us know how you like it,people who have used them say they sound so wicked it will scare people.  Oh,it is grind #23-630-5 in the current comp catalog if you need more info. Keith
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#949580
03/13/11 10:20 PM
03/13/11 10:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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So with this cam let's say installed in the straight up position, how much performance would be gained if it was installed at 104 ?  
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#949581
03/13/11 10:22 PM
03/13/11 10:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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Used that cam for years. Like has been said,,it may not look like it will work, but, it will work with about anything!! 104* is the way to go. Maybe one of Herb's old quotes will make you feel better...."don't get all hung up on duration, throw all the lift in you can"... I am not 100% in agreement with that statement now, but in 1985 it proved accurate for me. 
Last edited by CHAPPER; 03/13/11 10:24 PM.
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#949582
03/15/11 10:00 PM
03/15/11 10:00 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
OP
New user name, Same old jerk!
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OP
New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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A few points then we can hit this thread over the head with a shovel. If I thought it was the ideal cam for the engine I would have never started the thread. It was a marriage of convenience and close enough to work. The cam came from the moparts classifieds. I don't believe you need the ideal camshaft for an engine to run well. He**, I don't think I've ever had the right cam/compression combination in any engine. It actually worked just fine installed at 108* I've decided to try both 108 and 104 degrees. Assuming it will "work better" at 104* it makes sense to install it at 108 first. If I install it at 104 and then change it to 108 and find out 104 was better I'll have to change it twice. If it turns out that 108 is better I know who to blame for the extra work to change it back  Also, putting it at 108 first will mean one less change over the winter and will give me a better idea what the result of the other changes is. 
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#949583
03/15/11 10:29 PM
03/15/11 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
ky
68roadrunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
ky
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i am with you dude, i have that cam in the runner, it is only a 440 with -1s ootb. i do not remember how it is put in, i think 104. on this summer rebuild it will be put in at 104 or probably 102. i will check before removal. i have read on here in the past of these being run at 101 
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#949584
03/15/11 10:37 PM
03/15/11 10:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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So, you are saying that you have already tried and tested it at 108* in This 500/11.1 combo running a best 60ft. of 1.40 With a 5000 stall, I see your point of starting at a 108 first. But , Id like to see the test results at a 104* too, as you would.
Last edited by Sport440; 03/15/11 10:45 PM.
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: Sport440]
#949585
03/16/11 12:49 AM
03/16/11 12:49 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
OP
New user name, Same old jerk!
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OP
New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Yes. Best ET's 10.36, 6.53; mph 104, 128; 60' 1.40. All at around 3325lbs, admittedly measured crudely but very carefully with my 150lb limit digital shipping scale. My LM-2 records RPM and A/F and showed it stalling around 5100 at the bottom of 2nd gear and 5200 at the bottom of 3rd. The cam card says 5000-7200 but I was shifting at 6500, somewhat arbitrarily chosen (bracket racing, ya know). It was right around 6500 in the traps at 128. Now that I think about it, most of the time I was shifting 1-2 at 1.5 seconds via homemade solenoid and linkage setup that would totally blow some peoples minds while making others laugh uncontrollably. The delay box has a couple of timer outputs and some other functions like crossover that I don't need since I almost always leave first. I might just try the Pro bracket some day so I can do some fender racing again. Almost every car I race doesn't have fenders and I only get a brief look a them while the fly by. The cam card says 383-440 (mine is 499) and one part of me says a bigger engine will effectively make the cam smaller. But another part of me says valve timing is valve timing regardless of displacement. The primary change is going from an old school Holley 830 to an 1150 with a max wedge intake. I'll certainly try some higher shift points, the motor can take it. Quote:
So, you are saying that you have already tried and tested it at 108* in This 500/11.1 combo running a best 60ft. of 1.40 With a 5000 stall, I see your point of starting at a 108 first. But , Id like to see the test results at a 104* too, as you would.
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Re: Advanced, Retarded, or Straight Up?
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#949587
03/16/11 01:20 AM
03/16/11 01:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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It seems that every body wants to advance the cam to 104 but no one seems to have a comparison between setting up at 108 then changing to 104 without changing anything else to see if the engine liked the valve timing change. Of course each engine might have different results depending on the build but it would at least be some kind of comparison . I also run this cam, set straight up at 108. Inquiring minds want to know. 
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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