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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#944359
03/07/11 07:50 PM
03/07/11 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
dusturbd340W5
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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from my experience with the AR's I would give them a try they have been great in mine.
70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake
best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#944360
03/07/11 07:56 PM
03/07/11 07:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
from my experience with the AR's I would give them a try they have been great in mine.
Since I'm not familiar with their plugs number wise
what would you suggest..... 11:1 engine
thanks
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#944363
03/07/11 08:38 PM
03/07/11 08:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
from my experience with the AR's I would give them a try they have been great in mine.
Since I'm not familiar with their plugs number wise
what would you suggest..... 11:1 engine
thanks
well I can tell you that the list I found show a
AR 3910 = a c59yc
Ar 3911 = a c61yc
does that help any
the 3911 ran fine in the motor at 12.5-1 and I am still running that plug now at 14-1
The 3910 would be a step colder.
Thanks... I'll try the 3911 after I get the car running
and see how they act
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: 602heavy]
#944364
03/07/11 08:39 PM
03/07/11 08:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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feel the same HOGWASH is a good word i had a diffrent word but it would be bleep out but do carry on the b s i'm getting a good laugh 
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: BLONDE BARRACUDA]
#944366
03/07/11 09:25 PM
03/07/11 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I may also try a set being I usually start with new set of plugs anyways I have used NGK in the past but never really tried back to back test before with them one question I have is a lot of people are recommending heat ranges based on compresion ratio alone but isnt cam selection a huge factor being cylinder presure is determined largely by cam duration and compresion ratio. just a thought
It is... its cylinder pressure... but for me the
11:1 which it is based on the area its a good place
to start... thats why I said I'll see how they act
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: dennismopar73]
#944367
03/07/11 09:30 PM
03/07/11 09:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
feel the same
HOGWASH is a good word i had a diffrent word but it would be bleep out
but do carry on the b s
i'm getting a good laugh
Well Jeff has FACTS to back up what he said..... lets
see what you have.... not that I am a believer or not
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: 602heavy]
#944370
03/07/11 10:20 PM
03/07/11 10:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Thought this was April fools till i realised it's a few weeks away. 
Plug INITIATES the burn , that's all it does , too cold a plug for the application 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to unburnt fuel residing in base of plug , then you have too hot a plug 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to mixure being lit off 'slightly' earlier , pretty 'negligible' which ever way you look at it. 
Ok... weather I believe or not, how do you explain
the difference in HP on the dyno and the better idle
quality if they are a straight change heat range wise
and I do understand the principles of the plug
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#944371
03/07/11 10:57 PM
03/07/11 10:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
602heavy
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
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Quote:
Quote:
Thought this was April fools till i realised it's a few weeks away.
Plug INITIATES the burn , that's all it does , too cold a plug for the application 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to unburnt fuel residing in base of plug , then you have too hot a plug 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to mixure being lit off 'slightly' earlier , pretty 'negligible' which ever way you look at it.
Ok... weather I believe or not, how do you explain
the difference in HP on the dyno and the better idle
quality if they are a straight change heat range wise
and I do understand the principles of the plug
This is the problem i'm having..............can't fathom how the autolite plug netted 5/10hp over the NGK , i would of thought the opposite , an autolite has a thicker ground strap than an NGK which could 'hinder' grounding..............bit like the multi electrode ground strap being the best thing since sliced bread  , if this were the case 'indexing' a plug would also be hogwash. 
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: 602heavy]
#944372
03/07/11 11:00 PM
03/07/11 11:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
dusturbd340W5
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Thought this was April fools till i realised it's a few weeks away.
Plug INITIATES the burn , that's all it does , too cold a plug for the application 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to unburnt fuel residing in base of plug , then you have too hot a plug 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to mixure being lit off 'slightly' earlier , pretty 'negligible' which ever way you look at it.
Ok... weather I believe or not, how do you explain
the difference in HP on the dyno and the better idle
quality if they are a straight change heat range wise
and I do understand the principles of the plug
This is the problem i'm having..............can't fathom how the autolite plug netted 5/10hp over the NGK , i would of thought the opposite , an autolite has a thicker ground strap than an NGK which could 'hinder' grounding..............bit like the multi electrode ground strap being the best thing since sliced bread , if this were the case 'indexing' a plug would also be hogwash.
I suggest you look at the 2 plugs in question the Ar has a cut back ground strap the NGK does not.
70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake
best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: 602heavy]
#944373
03/07/11 11:25 PM
03/07/11 11:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
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right the ar plug has a cut back ground strap and the ngk does not,, you usually run a tighter plug gap with a cut back strap,, like .025-.030 as compared to .045-.050 with a full strap maybe you should go work for champion since i have about 4 styles of plugs from them, same heat range, with full strap, cut back strap, fine wire electrode, and no ground strap.. imagine how much money you would save them in engineering and production by knowing what works without actually testing anything and all that matters is the heat range  or maybe a pro stock team,, those guys have like 10 sets of carbs,, when all a carb does is flow air and "spray" the fuel into the airstream based on booster draw and emulsion,,, youd think all they need is one set,, lots of $ saving there if you only buy one set,, the possibilities are endless if you know the answer and testing is not needed so now we have three totally independent guys who own dynos and test that say the same thing,, must be a conspiracy 
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: moderncylinder]
#944375
03/07/11 11:46 PM
03/07/11 11:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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Quote:
right the ar plug has a cut back ground strap and the ngk does not,, you usually run a tighter plug gap with a cut back strap,, like .025-.030 as compared to .045-.050 with a full strap
maybe you should go work for champion since i have about 4 styles of plugs from them, same heat range, with full strap, cut back strap, fine wire electrode, and no ground strap.. imagine how much money you would save them in engineering and production by knowing what works without actually testing anything and all that matters is the heat range
or maybe a pro stock team,, those guys have like 10 sets of carbs,, when all a carb does is flow air and "spray" the fuel into the airstream based on booster draw and emulsion,,, youd think all they need is one set,, lots of $ saving there if you only buy one set,, the possibilities are endless if you know the answer and testing is not needed
so now we have three totally independent guys who own dynos and test that say the same thing,, must be a conspiracy
Why do..."..you usually run a tighter gap with a cut back strap.."??
 They come out of the box tighter,,but you don't have to run them that tight and I don't. I gap them the same as regular strap plugs. Work better with wider gap too,,especially with alcohol. 
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: CHAPPER]
#944377
03/08/11 12:04 AM
03/08/11 12:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
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sorry,, i should have said also with higher compression you run a tighter gap why do i do it? cause it makes more power with a tighter gap for me,, with higher comp,, like 14/1 i dont run alcohol,, so i dont know what works with it its crazy to imagine that on a motor that has 8 cylinders, each making 105-120 hp/cylinder that you could change the plug and influence the combustion process and gain 1-1.25hp,, thats like.... a lil less than 1%,, wow thats alot... added up through the 8 cylinders it could be 5-10hp..... its crazy to think the combustion process actually matters in the motor,, wait... it does 
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Re: NGK Plugs ?
[Re: CHAPPER]
#944378
03/08/11 12:05 AM
03/08/11 12:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
602heavy
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
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Plug gap is dependant on cylinder pressure/voltage , those cut-back plugs are/were 'marketed' for high HP motors running high cylinder pressures , hence the tighter gap.............some guys on here running NGKs will be pulling em out & cutting the straps back  , will also go through two sets of cut-backs to one set of standard type plugs...........maybe the cut-backs worked better in you're application due to problems elsewhere , might not gain in every application , the NGK 'V' series plug definatly did'nt help regards my combo. With respect.
Last edited by 602heavy; 03/08/11 12:06 AM.
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Mike I went to them based on my machinist recommendation and he has a dyno and does a lot of dynoing and his findings mimic those of Jeff so that's good enough for me.