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440 roller cam advice needed **UPDATE*** #925828
02/10/11 09:51 PM
02/10/11 09:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
I'm tired of wiping out camshafts. I know the switch to a roller setup comes with a stiff price tag, but I might be ready to pull the trigger.
I have a 440 based 493 with 10.8 to one squeeze. Edelbrock 84cc heads unported, Performer RPM intake, Barry Grant 850VS carb, TTI 2" headers and 2 1/2" exhaust.
I know that there a few different manufacturers of roller cams and lifters including Comp cams, but I dont know anyone in my area with experience with any. I want to stay hydraulic so I can keep my stock shaft rocker arms. I am not looking for cam specs here, I'll consult the vendor for that. I just wanted some suggestions on WHICH products are favored by the Mopar faithful.
Waddaya say, guys?

Last edited by Frankenduster; 02/15/11 02:20 AM.
Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Kern Dog] #925829
02/10/11 10:00 PM
02/10/11 10:00 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
Call Hughes Engines and get one of their hyd roller street cams.

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: AndyF] #925830
02/10/11 10:16 PM
02/10/11 10:16 PM
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Posts: 2,023
Lincoln NE
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440forPOWER Offline
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Lincoln NE
Are the Hughes street rollers cast or billet? I was surprised to see their hydraulic rollers seem to have less lift per duration compared to their flat tappet hydraulic cams. I thought that was one of the big advantages of a roller.

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: 440forPOWER] #925831
02/10/11 10:21 PM
02/10/11 10:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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Get with Dwayne Porter (802) 951-1955 and have him get you the RIGHT cam for your combo!! You wont be sorry!!


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Von] #925832
02/10/11 10:25 PM
02/10/11 10:25 PM
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Posts: 311
New England
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Tech Instructor Offline
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I agree call Dwayne he is a great guy to deal with,and he knows his stuff.

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Tech Instructor] #925833
02/10/11 11:06 PM
02/10/11 11:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
Is Dwayne an employee at Hughes?
I looked at the website and found a few interesting things.
They now have Hydraulic retrofit roller lifters for BB and SB for $345! Their BB Hyd roller cams are $421. I didnt read anywhere if they are cast or billet, so I dont know if they require a bronze distr/oil pump drive. I didn't see a listing for oil pump drives, maybe I didnt look far enough. What is a torrington bearing and a cam button? I live on the west coast and many of these performance shops are closed by the time I am off work, so calling them isnt easy. (Cough, cough....I feel sick. Maybe I should stay HOME tomorrow...)

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Kern Dog] #925834
02/10/11 11:16 PM
02/10/11 11:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,023
Lincoln NE
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440forPOWER Offline
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Hello, no Dwayne is not at Hughes. He has his own machine shop. The cam button is used to correct/adjust the camshaft end play for a roller. What cams have you had problems with wiping lobes?

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: 440forPOWER] #925835
02/10/11 11:47 PM
02/10/11 11:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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No, Dwayne does not work at Hughes.

Dwayne is one of the best, if not the best Mopar head porter and cam grinders.

His business is Porter Racing Heads.

IMO, Hughes=


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: 440forPOWER] #925836
02/11/11 01:17 AM
02/11/11 01:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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I had 2 Comp cams go bad. Each cam lost one lobe each, but different cylinders. The lifter bores are fine. New lifters slide and rotate just fine. The first bad cam was covered under warranty by Summit racing because it was only in the motor 28 days. The second one lasted 4 years. The crappy oil and my ignorance to its effects were to blame. Since the second cam went bad I have read alot about why it happens. My eyes are open now. I love to work on the cars, but I just want this motor to run strong and STAY that way. I only drive the car 1500-1800 miles per year, so I figure that a good combination of parts should last a long, long time.

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Kern Dog] #925837
02/11/11 01:50 AM
02/11/11 01:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25
Virginia
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red79 Offline
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Virginia
just run the right oil (zinc is the key), or put in an additive when you change your oil. a properly cared for hydraulic should outlive the rest of your moving parts. roller cam on a 440 is not worth the cost of a conversion imo, and all the oiling mods are a PITA.

Last edited by red79; 02/11/11 01:52 AM.
Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Von] #925838
02/11/11 02:11 AM
02/11/11 02:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,315
MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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hemigod426 Offline
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Quote:

No, Dwayne does not work at Hughes.

Dwayne is one of the best, if not the best Mopar head porter and cam grinders.

His business is Porter Racing Heads.

IMO, Hughes=


hughes is a joke just reboxed angle cams from Ca. with big price tags they dont grind anything, does porter grind them or just pick out cams and have someone else cut it?


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: red79] #925839
02/11/11 02:56 AM
02/11/11 02:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Quote:

and all the oiling mods are a PITA.




??????????
OILING mods? What the heck? Please explain!

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: red79] #925840
02/11/11 04:05 AM
02/11/11 04:05 AM
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NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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Quote:

, and all the oiling mods are a PITA.




Please elaborate....


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: hemigod426] #925841
02/11/11 04:06 AM
02/11/11 04:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
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NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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[quotedoes porter grind them or just pick out cams and have someone else cut it?




Porter picks out the lobes, Comp grinds them.


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Kern Dog] #925842
02/11/11 11:26 PM
02/11/11 11:26 PM
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tucson az
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frank Offline
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I used a custom hyd roller from Comp Cams in my 440 to 496 stroker. It dynod 636.9 torque at 4300 RPM and 567.1 HP at 5400 RPM. I also used Comp Cams bronze dist gear.

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: frank] #925843
02/12/11 12:04 AM
02/12/11 12:04 AM
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IN
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ahy Offline
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An observation... if you are running stock stamped steel rockers they are OK up to .5" lift or a bit more if you want them to last. A roller for a 493, even a mild one, is likley to have more lift than that. Even with hydraulic lifters a high performance cam should use adjustable rockers. Bottom line, if you go the roller route you will probably need new rockers.

If you want to keep it simple, another flat tappet may be the best. With good lifter bores which you have and good oil they last. I run Rotella T plus STP because it has enough zinc, is readily available and cost effective. There are lots of other oil solutions.

There are some additionl things you can do to make it even better. Lifters with a small EDM oil hole to the cam face are available from Hughes, "Howards Lifters" and others. Also, if you order the cam from Comp, you can have it nitride hardened for an extra fee.

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Kern Dog] #925844
02/12/11 12:39 AM
02/12/11 12:39 AM
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Dcuda69 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

and all the oiling mods are a PITA.




??????????
OILING mods? What the heck? Please explain!




Curious myself? I have a Comp solid street roller in my 470" low deck. Only mod I did was the Hemi pick-up. Probably not at all necessary....but I did it anyway. The cam (XR280R) rocks!! Idles at 800 rpm w/ 14" vac. and pulls easily through 6k. Made 420HP at 5500 rpm at the tire...so I'm good!!

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Dcuda69] #925845
02/14/11 02:03 AM
02/14/11 02:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11 Offline
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I believe he's referring to either tubing the block or sleeving the lifter bores, which, in your application, is not necessary. The local NAPA store has valvoline VR1 in 10w30. If they can get it in the little town I live close to, it's available anywhere. (off road use only ) That way you could just stick with the flat tappet.

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: dodgeboy11] #925846
02/15/11 02:37 AM
02/15/11 02:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Granite Bay CA
I pulled the motor yesterday and tore it down this afternoon. This was my first full teardown since the smoking issue reared its ugly head a few years ago.
No smoking gun was found, but here are the findings. Maybe some faithful members can shed some light on the following:
Both head gaskets seemed to be sealing well. There was some uneven torque to crack the head bolts loose though. All lifters and cam lobes looked great, so I have some newfound faith in the flat tappet cams since I switched to the valvoline VR1 oil last year. I kept the lifters in order so I may actually keep the cam and reuse it. All rod and main bearings had some slight wear, but nothing bad. The crank journals look great. There was some very slight pitting in the oil pump rotors, so I will replace it. The skirts on the pistons had some scuffing, but not too bad. I'll let the machinist determine the severity and if they can be polished or coated and reused. ALL the rings look fine, not sharp edged or chipped. The tops of the pistons and the combustion chambers were uniformly colored, slighly caramel brown in the middle, and the exhaust valves were tan in color. The cylinder walls were smoother than I expected, but had no up and down scratches. I would have expected a 3000 mile motor to still show some cross hatch pattern.
The smoothe cylinder walls have me curious. Can THIS be partly responsible for oil consumption? I also suspect the valve guides, since 2 years ago I had to replace 7 intake valves and one exhaust valve due to stem wear. I wrote on this subject before: The Bronze valve guides should have worn before the Stainless Steel valves, shouldn't they?
I'm taking the block, heads, pistons and rods in tomorrow. I'll report back as soon as I know more.

Re: 440 roller cam advice needed [Re: Kern Dog] #925847
02/15/11 10:51 AM
02/15/11 10:51 AM
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Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Fury Fan Offline
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Indiana
Quote:

I The cylinder walls were smoother than I expected, but had no up and down scratches. I would have expected a 3000 mile motor to still show some cross hatch pattern.
The smoothe cylinder walls have me curious. Can THIS be partly responsible for oil consumption?



I'm not an engine builder, but of the used factory engines I've disassembled, I'd say yes, you should still have crosshatch after only 3000 miles, and I don't think they smould be smooth or slick. Clean them with a degreaser and see how they feel.

Read this and see what you think of your cylinder walls. Sounds like you might have glazing?
http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm

Last edited by Fury Fan; 02/15/11 10:53 AM.






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