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While we're talking about hood scoops............ #921180
02/04/11 07:28 PM
02/04/11 07:28 PM
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Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline OP
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WILD BILL  Offline OP
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Something in the "sealing" thread has me concerned.

Quote:


PS I have also saw some big scoops on cars,but they only cut a small round hole in the hood.






Could that be a problem? The hole in my hood is right over the carb and roughly the same size or slightly bigger. Carb is roughly an inch and a half to 2 inches below the hood sealed W/ a moroso hood pan kit.

How big should the hole be?

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921181
02/04/11 07:51 PM
02/04/11 07:51 PM
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Marine Corps Base Hawaii
DemonKyle Offline
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Quote:

Something in the "sealing" thread has me concerned.

Quote:


PS I have also saw some big scoops on cars,but they only cut a small round hole in the hood.






Could that be a problem? The hole in my hood is right over the carb and roughly the same size or slightly bigger. Carb is roughly an inch and a half to 2 inches below the hood sealed W/ a moroso hood pan kit.

How big should the hole be?




Bill I wouldnt see an issue with it. Why create a bigger hole than what you need? That size hole feeds air DIRECTLY into the carb and is most efficient. Bigger is not always better.

I would be interested in seeing some logic in a "larger than necessary" hole

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921182
02/04/11 07:53 PM
02/04/11 07:53 PM
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Az
Crizila Offline
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IMHO, I think the hole should be as big as possible with the transition ( 90 degree air turn )as gradual as possible ( a big bell ). Also, as much space as possible between the carb air horn and the top of the scoop. I would think this would afford the least amount of turbulance.


Fastest 300
Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921183
02/04/11 08:07 PM
02/04/11 08:07 PM
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Sweet Home Alabama
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MRMOPAR622 Offline
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Sweet Home Alabama
I think if the hole in the hood does not match the base of the scoop you are not getting the full potentional of the scoop. But before you cut a bigger hole wait to see what some of the others like Mr_P_Body have to say. I have found that it takes more than you would think. Also I would think with the hole in the hood being smaller it would cause a turbulence more than forcing or having a fresh air effect for the carb. to pull air. On my R/T it work best with the hole & air pan cut to match the scoop. It worked so much better that on my dragster I built a pan not only to raise the scoop but to have more volume.


"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man" "T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921184
02/04/11 08:43 PM
02/04/11 08:43 PM
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Bill my opinion is it will make a difference in the
height (where the carb is in relation to the hole...
is the carb still below the hole or is the carb in the
hole).... if the carb is below the hole and you can
mount a stub stack( my terminology I call it a "ideal
entry") so if you can put a ideal entry on the carb
and have the lip of it at the hole then the hole would
end up being the same size as the outer lip (just
smaller so you can seal it but not too small to effect
flow... if the carb is up into the scoop you need
to make it as big as necessary to get as much carb
up in there.... I think this is where the guys are
running into problems... not enough area above the
carb to get the air to make a smooth turn into the
carb... thats why I'm a firm believer in the ideal
entry to help (and you still need enough area above
the ideal entry... in this case(SCOOPS)... more is
better)...... IMO


Here some info from BG

There is no substitute for a well-designed fuel and air delivery system. By ignoring these two critical areas, all the work of building a strong powerplant is wasted.

Air Delivery
For maximum horsepower, the coolest, most dense air possible should be available at the carburetor inlet. Keeping restriction in the inlet path to a minimum - or better yet, pressurizing the air - is also desirable.
The denser the air, the more you can get into the cylinders. This allows the engine to burn more fuel and make more power. We recommend that a hood scoop or outside air intake should be installed wherever rules allow. Under hood air is heated by the engine and headers and reduces the amount of power that can be produced. A reduction in temperature of 10 degrees F. is approximately equal to a one percent power gain.
There should be a minimum of three inches of clearance between the top of the venturis and a hood scoop. If an air cleaner is installed, the tallest possible element is preferred with four-inch element preferred for racing engines over 500 HP.
When a hood scoop or external air intake is used, it is highly suggested that the carburetor be sealed to it. Otherwise, air will flow across the top of the carb and out of the inlet tract rather than into the air horn. If air is forced past the carburetor it can siphon fuel, causing the engine to run lean. Windshield snorkels are especially notorious for siphoning unless the rear is sealed. Air pan kits for sealing the carburetor to the scoop are available or they can be fabricated. An air bell or radiused intake should be used whenever possible to increase air flow into the carburetor.
It is not unusual for a drag race car to improve ETs by 0.3 second and increase top speed by as much as seven miles an hou after installation of a sealed scoop. A car will not pick up ET after the scoop is sealed off if the scoop is too short or the fuel delivery system is inadequate.
On oval track cars, the same is true. Paying attention to the inle tract design will pay off. Depending upon track length, oval track cars will typically improve lap times by 0.1 to 0.5 second once an optimized air intake system is installed.

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921185
02/04/11 08:45 PM
02/04/11 08:45 PM
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Raleigh, NC
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rockerbob Offline
mopar
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Raleigh, NC
I have a 6 pack style hood on my car & I dont or haven't yet tried to seal it up. However I have tried 4 different air cleaner assemblys & lost over a tenth when I went from a 14 inch round 2 inch high to a small thin style with an open top. So to add to what Bill is asking. Could it be that the larger air cleaner helped fill the hole & reduce turbulence or is something else going on.

Last edited by rockerbob; 02/04/11 08:47 PM.
Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: MR_P_BODY] #921186
02/04/11 09:16 PM
02/04/11 09:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline OP
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL  Offline OP
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BROOK PARK, OH
The carb is currently still below the hood line and not up in the scoop.

That may change though. When we dynoed the first build we did we found the the 2" APD black widow spacer made significant gains in HP and torque.

Unfortunately, we never got the chance to try an on track test to see if those gains carried to real world ET's

My point is that the addition of that spacer might move the carb up into the hole or at least maybe have the top of the carb flush with the bottom of the hood.

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921187
02/04/11 09:42 PM
02/04/11 09:42 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

The carb is currently still below the hood line and not up in the scoop.

That may change though. When we dynoed the first build we did we found the the 2" APD black widow spacer made significant gains in HP and torque.

Unfortunately, we never got the chance to try an on track test to see if those gains carried to real world ET's

My point is that the addition of that spacer might move the carb up into the hole or at least maybe have the top of the carb flush with the bottom of the hood.





With your scoop Bill I dont think you'll have any
problems... you should still have enough area above
the carb to get the air in(fairly smoothly)... I
hope that it only comes to the bottom of the hood

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: MR_P_BODY] #921188
02/04/11 09:52 PM
02/04/11 09:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline OP
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WILD BILL  Offline OP
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BROOK PARK, OH
Quote:

... I hope that it only comes to the bottom of the hood






Are referring to the top of the carb after spacer installation?

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921189
02/04/11 10:01 PM
02/04/11 10:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

... I hope that it only comes to the bottom of the hood






Are referring to the top of the carb after spacer installation?




I would like to see it flush or under the hood...
even with the spacer on but if its up some with the
spacer I think you'll be ok... I dont really like
when the carb is UP in the flow line... where(if it
were to really happen) it (air) has to go up to get
into the carb(too big of a turn on the entry to
the carb)... but this is info I'm trying to figure
out... my set up the carb is below the inlet opening
of the scoop and I have a ideal entry on the carb
EDIT
Bill if your 2" below the INLET of the scoop I believe
you will be fine but you might have to rework the
pan in the scoop

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 02/04/11 10:03 PM.
Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: MR_P_BODY] #921190
02/04/11 10:10 PM
02/04/11 10:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline OP
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WILD BILL  Offline OP
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Curently, the carb is about 2" below the bottom of the hood. Which puts it about 7-9" (roughly) below the bottom of the opening in the scoop.

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921191
02/04/11 10:24 PM
02/04/11 10:24 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Curently, the carb is about 2" below the bottom of the hood. Which puts it about 7-9" (roughly) below the bottom of the opening in the scoop.




You'll be fine... is your scoop part of the hood...
if so I would determine the height of the carb and
add a ideal entry to your pan then seal the pan and
entry to the scoop... that way when you pull the hood
you would be pulling the pan and entry with the
hood.... JMO.... when I get back home Bill remind
me to take a pick of my scoop and pan set up...
yours would be similar to mine but my scoop is separate
from my hood

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: MR_P_BODY] #921192
02/04/11 10:38 PM
02/04/11 10:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline OP
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WILD BILL  Offline OP
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BROOK PARK, OH
Yes the scoop is molded onto the hood. (I can only hope it never becomes separated )


So, if I don;t have the spacer putting the carb flush with the bottom of the hood, then the next ideal entry would be something like



With the top sealed to the bottom of the hood and the hole in the hood matching the top of the sack?

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921193
02/04/11 10:49 PM
02/04/11 10:49 PM
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Yes the scoop is molded onto the hood. (I can only hope it never becomes separated )


So, if I don;t have the spacer putting the carb flush with the bottom of the hood, then the next ideal entry would be something like



With the top sealed to the bottom of the hood and the hole in the hood matching the top of the sack?





I would set it up so the pan itself is 3/4" to 1"
below the bottom of the inlet then the entry mounted
to the pan, then if needed add a tube to the bottom
of the entry to go onto the carb... that way there
shouldnt be any turbulence in the scoop area before
the turn into the entry.... I cant find a pic on my
computer of the one I use and dont see it in Summit
either... gonna have the wife check her laptop....
she has a pic and will post the pic

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: MR_P_BODY] #921194
02/04/11 10:52 PM
02/04/11 10:52 PM
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Romeo, MI
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Mrs_P_BODY Offline
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Raff asked me to post this.


Lauren
Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: Mrs_P_BODY] #921195
02/04/11 10:53 PM
02/04/11 10:53 PM
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Romeo, MI
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Mrs_P_BODY Offline
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and this...


Lauren
Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: Mrs_P_BODY] #921196
02/04/11 11:08 PM
02/04/11 11:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline OP
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WILD BILL  Offline OP
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BROOK PARK, OH
I think I get it.

Not sure if I can pull it off but I think I get it.

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921197
02/04/11 11:16 PM
02/04/11 11:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

I think I get it.

Not sure if I can pull it off but I think I get it.





Bill the pics I had her post are for a 4150 I believe
but I have the same thing for my 4500

Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: WILD BILL] #921198
02/05/11 12:02 AM
02/05/11 12:02 AM
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Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline
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ELYRIA,OH
bill i have a filter base i am not using that you could use if you like.i will measure the rise and take a pic for you sometime this weekend.

6457750-100_5260.jpg (71 downloads)
Last edited by METAL STORM; 02/05/11 12:14 AM.
Re: While we're talking about hood scoops............ [Re: blownzoom440] #921199
02/05/11 12:50 AM
02/05/11 12:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline OP
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