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help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 #901007 01/10/11 12:59 PM 01/10/11 12:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 659 Regina, SK, Canada charger OP mopar
charger OP mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 659 Regina, SK, Canada	hey everyone; building a street motor for a 5 speed manual. Car is going to be street only. Goal is to have as much torque as possible to move a 68 B-body in street trim. Shortblock is fully machined 440, forged steel crank, trw pistons, stock rods, about 10:1 with iron 346 heads. I want to re-use an edelbrock Victor intake since I got it already, and will be using a mechanical secondary 750 holley. So need a new cam and heads to make as much torque as possible. Need headers too so I could go with RPM's or Victor if I go edelbrock. Car is street only, I have another race car; so torque is king. Suggestions?

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: charger] #901008 01/10/11 05:15 PM 01/10/11 05:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	for heads 440sources' alum stealths. From what I understand they are the cheapest alum closed chamber heads available. I gathered your short block is fresh/balanced? so you wouldn't want to mill the domes any (if those TRW's have them). Have Cometic make you some head gaskets so you can get .040" quench and may be able to judiciously grind the chambers out some to adj your static CR. Dependent on your fuel/cam choice max out the dist curve and you will end up w an efficient long block live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: charger] #901009 01/10/11 06:46 PM 01/10/11 06:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Well if you're running a 5sp overdrive trans you leave the door open to run some aggressive rear gears then. Any thoughts on what you want to do in that department? 4.10's okay? IMO a carbed edelbrock victor intake has no place on a street only car where you say you want to build it for torq. Same goes with the victor heads. All that will do is cost you port velocity which will lower your bottom end torq/throttle response on the street. Now are you looking for pure torq or a good balance between the two for a hot street car? With a 5sp and some decent rear gears, anything you put together will have a lot of torq. I would look at something like edelbrock rpm or 440source heads, and a lunati voodoo hydraulic cam. I run the source heads and the voodoo 60303 cam with the stock source head springs and stock rockers/pushrods. Very nice streetable combo with a good amount of torq.

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #901010 01/11/11 12:27 AM 01/11/11 12:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 915 S.W. PA 6 6PACMAC super stock
6PACMAC super stock 6 Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 915 S.W. PA	The General Kinetic 282 P grind in my 6pac bee is a nice little street cam. It is the same as the larger Summit cam at 282/292, 224/234 at .050, .465/.488 lift. 114 lobe sep. Idles like a kitty cat but will lay down 100+ yard burnouts in third gear of the 4sp. And get 14 mpg with 4.10 gears. Engine is a blueprinted stock 69 440. Just a thought and they're low buck.

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: 6PACMAC] #901011 01/11/11 12:52 AM 01/11/11 12:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	Agree the Ed or 440 source heads would be ideal. Build for around .040" quench and compression in the low 10's to keep it efficient and pump gas friendly. The Edelbrock Performer RPM dual plane or Holey Street Dominator single plane manifolds would work well. On cam, how much "personality" do you want and are adjustable rockers in the budget? A fast rate cam with around 230 degree intake duration like the Hughes below would make use of the breathing potential of the aluminum heads and give lots of mid-range torque. It starts to wake up at 2000 RPM which would work well with the 5 speed. Good adjustable rockers, 10 degree (or "super 7") valve locks and retainers and correctly fitted 3/8" pushrods would be recommended for durability. The "Big Summit" cam with its lower lift would probably get along fine with stock valve gear but it gives up valve lift and torque. HUG HEH3237BL HYDRAULIC CAMSHAFT 110� LSA+3 FLAT TAPPET HYDRAULIC / ONE BOLT TIMING GEAR

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: 6PACMAC] #901012 01/11/11 01:19 AM 01/11/11 01:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: the larger Summit cam at 282/292, 224/234 at .050, .465/.488 lift. 114 lobe sep. I have one of those going into a DD 451 build & I was wondering how much (or little) personality it's gonna have. What TC will it need? live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: RapidRobert] #901013 01/11/11 01:42 AM 01/11/11 01:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 915 S.W. PA 6 6PACMAC super stock
6PACMAC super stock 6 Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 915 S.W. PA	Quote: Quote: the larger Summit cam at 282/292, 224/234 at .050, .465/.488 lift. 114 lobe sep. I have one of those going into a DD 451 build & I was wondering how much (or little) personality it's gonna have. What TC will it need? I think you could get by with a stock TC. Its smooth, like a stock factory hp cam. Maybe slightly rumpyer.

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: 6PACMAC] #901014 01/11/11 01:50 AM 01/11/11 01:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Thank you Mac live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: RapidRobert] #901015 01/11/11 02:20 AM 01/11/11 02:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	I'd say it's noticably lumpier than the stock HP cam. My brother has that cam in his stock headed 440 and you can definitely hear the cam at idle. Not crazy lope but you know it's there.

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: charger] #901016 01/11/11 12:23 PM 01/11/11 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	Quote: hey everyone; building a street motor for a 5 speed manual. Car is going to be street only. Goal is to have as much torque as possible to move a 68 B-body in street trim. Shortblock is fully machined 440, forged steel crank, trw pistons, stock rods, about 10:1 with iron 346 heads. I want to re-use an edelbrock Victor intake since I got it already, and will be using a mechanical secondary 750 holley. So need a new cam and heads to make as much torque as possible. Need headers too so I could go with RPM's or Victor if I go edelbrock. Car is street only, I have another race car; so torque is king. Suggestions? sell the victor, buy an eddie performer RPM intake. heads, I'd go eddies. cam, I'd go comp XE275HL, maybe custom ground on a 112LSA, installed at 106 ICL Last edited by patrick; 01/11/11 12:24 PM. 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #901017 01/11/11 02:59 PM 01/11/11 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 659 Regina, SK, Canada charger OP mopar
charger OP mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 659 Regina, SK, Canada	Quote: IMO a carbed edelbrock victor intake has no place on a street only car where you say you want to build it for torq. Just wanted to use it because I had it already. Quote: Now are you looking for pure torq or a good balance between the two for a hot street car? Looking for an awesome street motor; I was just making the point that I'm not going to be taking this car to the track winding it up to 7000. because of the 5 speed, I'll probably run 4.10's with a 28" tire. I'm not going to say budget is not a concern, it always is; but if there's a better head that fits the bill I'll go that way...so I'm not ruling the victors out

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: charger] #901018 01/11/11 03:43 PM 01/11/11 03:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	I still recommend sellig the victor intake and picking something up more oriented for street use like a performer rpm. For a hot street motor you can run a decent cam with stock rockers if you use the 440source or edelbrock rpm heads. The victor heads as you know take their own special rocker assy $$$. Depends on how much money you feel you want to spend.

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #901019 01/11/11 04:20 PM 01/11/11 04:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 659 Regina, SK, Canada charger OP mopar
charger OP mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 659 Regina, SK, Canada	Quote: I still recommend sellig the victor intake and picking something up more oriented for street use like a performer rpm. Yeah, I just wanted to get a little more flow than the ported iron heads I'm running now; maybe I'll put on some ported RPM's and experiment with intakes... I went from a Performer RPM to Torker 2, to Victor intake and I must say on this same shortblock with a Lunati 474 cam on it and iron heads, the motor liked the victor the best. Hey, are you from Winnipeg? I've never seen your car around...I just moved to Regina from Winnipeg.

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: charger] #901020 01/11/11 07:27 PM 01/11/11 07:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Well you do have the intake so you can try it. I just know from what other members have commented, the RPM seems like a great street/strip piece. If you google 383 intake shootout part 2 you can find an article by hotrod magazine where they dynoed a bunch of different big block 383 intakes. IIRC the RPM beat the Victor on peak torq by a little with the victor having a little more peak hp. The RPM had more avg torq through the whole powerband under 5000rpm. This was on a 383 with a very lumpy cam and cnc ported edelbrock rpm heads if memory serves. Quote: Hey, are you from Winnipeg? I've never seen your car around...I just moved to Regina from Winnipeg. No I'm actually a bit south of the peg. I did have my car in a couple years ago at the sunday cruise night at buffalo bills on regent. Okay that was maybe more than a couple years ago. Have it torn down right now for numerous upgrades.

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: charger] #901021 01/11/11 08:48 PM 01/11/11 08:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,489 west kentucky G gomangoRTSE pro stock
gomangoRTSE pro stock G Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,489 west kentucky	Street only car, low end torque,.....those are are not synonomous with an Edelbrock Victor. This manifold will be the weak link in your build. Silly to worry about $175 for the correct intake manifold when your spending all the money elsewhere.

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: gomangoRTSE] #901022 01/14/11 10:44 AM 01/14/11 10:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 53 Jensen Beach, Florida pressureangle member
pressureangle member Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 53 Jensen Beach, Florida	Low/Midrange torque=port velocity. Stealth or Eddy Performer aluminum, or a set of 451's sent to Hughes for big valves ($800) I'd use a CH4B manifold you'll have to find used; I could mash my 440/.509/850DP to the floor from idle and it took it without hesitation. Consider an aluminum flywheel-you'll lose some drivability in traffic but the difference in acceleration is stunning. With the 5-speed you won't much worry about it after you're moving and it will help with the slow shift of modern transmissions. Why do I torture myself so?

Re: help me pick heads, hyd. cam for 440 [Re: RapidRobert] #901023 01/14/11 10:51 AM 01/14/11 10:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Quote: Quote: the larger Summit cam at 282/292, 224/234 at .050, .465/.488 lift. 114 lobe sep. I have one of those going into a DD 451 build & I was wondering how much (or little) personality it's gonna have. What TC will it need? good cam, I ran a few. Ran 12.90 in a maybe 9:1 nothing fancy 440. (67 coronet) I used a MP 175k convert and 3.91's. To the OP, That intake is all wrong sell it and buy a used dual palne like the CH4B or Holley SD. As for a cam, with the 5 speed you could probably get away with a little more cam. This would work well w/ a set of 3.91's or 4.10's 240/246(@ .050) 507/510 lift w/ a Lobe Separation of 110 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-21-225-4/ [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

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