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piston out of deck????'s #897133 01/05/11 09:23 PM 01/05/11 09:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca R rice2muscle OP member
rice2muscle OP member R Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca	i am planning on a stroker build, and the build will put the pistons 0.020 out of the hole. is this going to be a problem, with the head and gasket i will have enough piston to valve clearance so thats not an issue. it will have a mild 11 to one comp... one machine shop says it will blows the gasket out all the time and i should not do this... another says some engines from the factory do it all day with out an issue. so who do i believe? ill level with y'all it is a 4 cyl honda engine. so there is ample head bolts to keep it snug. this is my rice.

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897134 01/05/11 09:25 PM 01/05/11 09:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,056 Mt.Vernon IL Twin Turbo Mower super stock
Twin Turbo Mower super stock Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,056 Mt.Vernon IL	As long as you have proper piston to head clearence I do not see a problem.

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: Twin Turbo Mower] #897135 01/05/11 09:27 PM 01/05/11 09:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca R rice2muscle OP member
rice2muscle OP member R Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca	not going to blow head gaskets like the first machine shop says??

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897136 01/05/11 09:29 PM 01/05/11 09:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	You need to check the piston to head clearance... I had a engine that was .030 out and at 8000 the piston would JUST touch in one small area so I ground that area on the head on a freshen up

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897137 01/05/11 09:35 PM 01/05/11 09:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida P Performance Only top fuel
Performance Only top fuel P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida	there's different ways to look at it. they do make head saver shims for that so you can maintain the proper piston placement. if it's a stock rebuild daily driver deal, that's a good option. if your doing other mods as well, then that's a whole different scenario. machine shop owner and engine builder

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: Performance Only] #897138 01/05/11 09:51 PM 01/05/11 09:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca R rice2muscle OP member
rice2muscle OP member R Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca	thanks guys. i know this is moparts not hoparts lol, but on the honda forums 99.999% of all guys ask questions like how do i change my oil and what type of blinker fluid do i use??? so i dont really trust their opinion on engine builds.

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897139 01/05/11 10:08 PM 01/05/11 10:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca R rice2muscle OP member
rice2muscle OP member R Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca	another quick question, not tyring to start a debate war here just wondering... will i make more power if i were to just get more compression? or if i were to stroke it but have lower compression?

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897140 01/05/11 10:11 PM 01/05/11 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	If you are running a closed chamber head you could get a cometic gasket .055 thick and get a nice tight quench area, even fel pro sells a head gaset that thick in there kits for small blocks at least. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897141 01/05/11 10:14 PM 01/05/11 10:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: another quick question, not tyring to start a debate war here just wondering... will i make more power if i were to just get more compression? or if i were to stroke it but have lower compression? Stroking it gets you more CI and that wins

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: HotRodDave] #897142 01/05/11 10:16 PM 01/05/11 10:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	depends on how much compression and displacement we are talking about. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: HotRodDave] #897143 01/05/11 10:33 PM 01/05/11 10:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,101 Yes S sixpakdodge master
sixpakdodge master S Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,101 Yes	I ran a .055 over 440 with the piston .013 out of the hole. It loved head gaskets. It burned through a set of the .055 Cometic's right near the dowel pin, just like it did to the 1009 Fel Pro's I originally had on it. I had a set of .066 Cometic's on it when the block split due to fatigue. (Block had A LOT of runs on it.) I kept going thicker in attempt to lower the compression. It didn't make much of a difference though, the car ran the same. I was running 452 open chamber heads that were milled, but still open chambered, with flat top pistons. Definitely check, double check, triple check, and then check again, the piston to valve/head clearance. I didn't have any problems with the piston to valve or piston to head, but it's very crucial.

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897144 01/05/11 10:40 PM 01/05/11 10:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY H hemigod426 top fuel
hemigod426 top fuel H Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY	Quote: not going to blow head gaskets like the first machine shop says?? last i looked my hemis are way positve deck, is that gunna blow headgaskets, all ls1 350s are out of the hole for flat top pistons factory, run from that shop... MOPAR OR NO CAR

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: hemigod426] #897145 01/06/11 09:24 AM 01/06/11 09:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOrk ! The village idiot's idiot
dOrk ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Quote: Quote: not going to blow head gaskets like the first machine shop says?? What SOME of these so-called "professionals" say is flat-out SCAREY sometimes.

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: dOrk !] #897146 01/06/11 12:07 PM 01/06/11 12:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,206 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,206 New York	What SOME of these so-called "professionals" say is flat-out SCAREY sometimes. True, dat. Remember: "I do it for money" is what makes you a professional - not being good at it. Look at Congress... Boffin Emeritus

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897147 01/06/11 02:39 PM 01/06/11 02:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,176 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,176 Bend,OR USA	Quote: another quick question, not tyring to start a debate war here just wondering... will i make more power if i were to just get more compression? or if i were to stroke it but have lower compression? You can get the same results HP and torque wise from either choice. A stroker motor with less compression will be able to use pump gas and have a bunch more torque than the smaller motor with more compression running race gas with the same HP Been there, done that 452 C.I.with 906 heads with 14.7 to 1 compression using C14+ made 625 HP, 610 ft. lbs Two years later 512 C.I. with similar 906 heads with 9.25 to 1 comp. ratio made 612 HP and 644 FT lbs on pump gas Strokers good Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897148 01/06/11 02:53 PM 01/06/11 02:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY H hemigod426 top fuel
hemigod426 top fuel H Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY	Quote: i am planning on a stroker build, and the build will put the pistons 0.020 out of the hole. is this going to be a problem, with the head and gasket i will have enough piston to valve clearance so thats not an issue. it will have a mild 11 to one comp... one machine shop says it will blows the gasket out all the time and i should not do this... another says some engines from the factory do it all day with out an issue. so who do i believe? ill level with y'all it is a 4 cyl honda engine. so there is ample head bolts to keep it snug. this is my rice. just curious what block and what piston for stoker motor is .020 out of deck? every 440 piston ive seen for is .010-.080 down from deck. MOPAR OR NO CAR

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: hemigod426] #897149 01/06/11 04:13 PM 01/06/11 04:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 637 Kokomo,IN StripeHOG mopar
StripeHOG mopar Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 637 Kokomo,IN	in a honda Andrew Brough D372 1969 Dodge Dart GTS 1.43 60'best 6.82 1/8 98mph "the light came on and I ran out of talent"

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: StripeHOG] #897150 01/06/11 07:40 PM 01/06/11 07:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs Bob_Coomer master
Bob_Coomer master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs	what kind of engine? What kind of pistons, and heads? The machine shop you speak of, doesnt give trust worthy answers, my guess is there machine work isnt trust worthy either. Talking about a .020 positive piston to deck clearance then referring to piston to valve questions is a bit confusing. This needs checked also, but piston to head is more critical in this much positive piston height than valve to piston.... Both need checked at any rate. Is this a pump gas engine, or suppose to be? I haven't seen anyone ask yet, but having that much piston height is going to increase the compression a bunch. Running 11:1+ compression will cost you power, and cause engine damage running today's pump gas. Where a properly tuned 9.5:1 engine with the correct/optimal spark timing will not only make more power, but be more dependable any way you slice it. More isn't always best in a performance engine. [color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color] [color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: Bob_Coomer] #897151 01/07/11 05:32 PM 01/07/11 05:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca R rice2muscle OP member
rice2muscle OP member R Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 42 napa, ca	it is a honda 2.2 ltr. sorry.... please forgive me but i can drop in a crank with 5mm longer stroke and the rods to go with it with my stock pistons. putting it 20 thous out of the hole.giving me a compression ratio of 10.98 to one. right now its like .006 in the hole with under 10 to one. yes its all aluminum with a knock sensor. i know this build is done, i was just wanted to know what some real car guys thought about it. not what the average honda enthusist thinks... (they are mostly idiots)

Re: piston out of deck????'s [Re: rice2muscle] #897152 01/07/11 06:03 PM 01/07/11 06:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,200 UK 6 602heavy pro stock
602heavy pro stock 6 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,200 UK	Some engines are designed to have the piston 5mm +/- out the hole in order to reduce peak cylinder pressure loading on head gasket just after TDC..............now if the guy who quoted this would come on in i'm sure you'd get the full picture. Last edited by 602heavy; 01/07/11 06:05 PM.

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