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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: Dragula]
#883196
12/20/10 09:56 PM
12/20/10 09:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
HEMIDARTS
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
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And its still a HEMI ( technically )
Meaning, it says so in the ads?
Meaning it has the same chamber shape as the old Hemi, and not the wedge chamber like a Hemi99.
Also it means that it is a small block, not a big block like all the original HEMI's were.
Sorry, but the originals WERE small blocks!
I understand that. I was not trying to argue with anyone.
I was making more of a joke than anything.
I was refering to the 426 HEMI. Sorry about that. 
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: TrWaters]
#883198
12/20/10 11:00 PM
12/20/10 11:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 247
nc
moeflo
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 247
nc
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And its still a HEMI ( technically )
Meaning, it says so in the ads?
Meaning it has the same chamber shape as the old Hemi, and not the wedge chamber like a Hemi99.
Actually, the chambers are not shaped like the old hemi. They are not hemispherical at all.
If you look at how the individual scallops around each valve deshroud with lift you'll find it's done to mimic the intake diffusion patterns that a 426 does so well. You don't throw away what works. Making the chamber a full bowl shape would add a lot of volume while disturbing the intake flow. This is due to the valve angles. If it were a full bowl shape the chamber would be too flat. If this was good we'd all have 409 chevys.
The new hemis are how a narrow valve angle hemi is done if you want it to run like one. Everybody can call it what they want. As far as what matters, it's a hemi.
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: onebaddakota]
#883199
12/21/10 02:39 AM
12/21/10 02:39 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Did anyone else catch that?
It's really a testament about the importance of port efficiency and how much the old wedge heads suck. This is nothing new, the old heads were just designed to be cheap to manufacture, performance was secondary, if not even farther down the list. One peek down the intake port of a wedge head shows what a torture chamber for moving gasses looks like. Tilting the valve toward the corresponding manifold naturally makes for a shorter port and takes away some of the opportunity for complex geometry. Now to piss off some people: how much does the 5.7/6.1 intake valve position and angle differ from the 318 poly? (see picture)
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#883200
12/21/10 09:58 AM
12/21/10 09:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 247
nc
moeflo
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 247
nc
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Did anyone else catch that?
It's really a testament about the importance of port efficiency and how much the old wedge heads suck. This is nothing new, the old heads were just designed to be cheap to manufacture, performance was secondary, if not even farther down the list. One peek down the intake port of a wedge head shows what a torture chamber for moving gasses looks like. Tilting the valve toward the corresponding manifold naturally makes for a shorter port and takes away some of the opportunity for complex geometry. Now to piss off some people: how much does the 5.7/6.1 intake valve position and angle differ from the 318 poly? (see picture)
The poly is very close to the 99 in it's valve layout. The valve locations/angles in the old 318's were never a performance problem. Intakes with angles favoring the ports, no side cant and a 0° exhaust angle. (the 99 began with a 2° exhaust angle, both no side cant)
The poly ports were designed around getting it to fit engine bays. (same thing that hurt the early 426 hemi's exhaust ) Like Drag Stripper said, performance was way, way down the list on nearly all OE hi-production engines. Also, he's dead on about the paths the intake ports must take in a wedge. It's why a hemi will out flow a wedge with the same cross-section. When setting a flow curve, you will give up more flow on one end in order to optimize the flow on the other. much more with a wedge than a hemi.
On polys and B,RB for that matter,1/2 inch longer valves and corresponding taller castings would have helped tremendously from the git-go. (They should have cut that 1/2 inch from the deck instead...) But packaging was the first priority.
The hew hemis ports and valves are centered and the angles very close, (the same?). In that regard, it's more hemish than a 426. There were some who complained that the 426 wasn't a true hemi because the intake and exhaust angles were different. In retrospect, that's a weak argument. I suspect the same will eventually be true regarding the new hemis.
Somewhere along the way we made up this idea that all 2V engines fell into either wedge or hemi. It just ain't so.
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: moderncylinder]
#883203
12/22/10 12:36 PM
12/22/10 12:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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are you guys sure it had 5.7 heads on it?? i guess i havent seen "new" 5.7 heads, but the drag pack intake is meant to fit 6.1 heads,,, there are no 5.7 heads on any packages they offer. id think the intake is for 6.1 heads,,, so they used 6.1 heads
The newer 5.7L heads have larger ports then the older version. They are very close to the 6.1L heads and the intake for can swap over.
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: 540challenger]
#883204
12/22/10 01:29 PM
12/22/10 01:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
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are you guys sure it had 5.7 heads on it?? i guess i havent seen "new" 5.7 heads, but the drag pack intake is meant to fit 6.1 heads,,, there are no 5.7 heads on any packages they offer. id think the intake is for 6.1 heads,,, so they used 6.1 heads
The newer 5.7L heads have larger ports then the older version. They are very close to the 6.1L heads and the intake for can swap over.
This is true since 2009 when VCT hit, AKA "5.7 Eagle"
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Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: moderncylinder]
#883205
12/22/10 07:25 PM
12/22/10 07:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
AlexP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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are you guys sure it had 5.7 heads on it?? i guess i havent seen "new" 5.7 heads, but the drag pack intake is meant to fit 6.1 heads,,, there are no 5.7 heads on any packages they offer. id think the intake is for 6.1 heads,,, so they used 6.1 heads
You really didn't know that ? Wow.
The port window on both the I & E is very close to the 6.1 head.
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: moderncylinder]
#883207
12/22/10 09:56 PM
12/22/10 09:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
AlexP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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no,, i havent seen a new 5.7 head,, ive done about 15 sets of 6.1 heads in the last year,,, no 5.7 heads.....
the drag pack 5.7 hemi has the 6.1 head on it
I'd take a look at it. It's the best compromise between the two. A tight combustion chamber, smaller than 6.1 intake ports with the 6.1 exhaust port.
Makes big power, even in stock form on a 5.7.
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: ZIPPY]
#883208
01/31/11 07:58 PM
01/31/11 07:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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are you guys sure it had 5.7 heads on it?? i guess i havent seen "new" 5.7 heads, but the drag pack intake is meant to fit 6.1 heads,,, there are no 5.7 heads on any packages they offer. id think the intake is for 6.1 heads,,, so they used 6.1 heads
The newer 5.7L heads have larger ports then the older version. They are very close to the 6.1L heads and the intake for can swap over.
This is true since 2009 when VCT hit, AKA "5.7 Eagle"
,
Tell me you have a Chrysler part# for the new eagles heads. Matt
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: wldtm]
#883211
01/31/11 11:04 PM
01/31/11 11:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
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Hey Prosport, I have seen enough of your posts to convince to get a gen3 hemi. We traded a couple PM's and I say sell it and put a 6.1 or 5.7 hemi in. I will help in anyway I can.
I'd still LOVE to do this someday but in this economy I'd have to give my motor away. I would need to get good money for my motor, then find a smokin deal on a new Hemi so I could use the extra money to beef it up. And then my Ultrabell equipped 727 wouldn't work as it's a big block tranny. Heck I'd be better off just building an old 426 Hemi so I can utilize my tranny, water pump, motor plate etc. But the 6.1 sure would be a fun project, I'm anxious to see your Cuda all done.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: Engine Masters: SB hemi wins with 700HP!
[Re: HotRodDave]
#883213
02/04/11 12:25 PM
02/04/11 12:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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emarine01,
The rod length listed in the PHR detail article is 6.125. With a 4.250 stroke thats a 1.44 rod ratio. Kinda kills the long rods are needed to make power thing 
They are not revving over 7K or so and have to put up good numbers even lower in the rev range than most motors, long rods help high RPM power and short rods help low RPM power. Proven many time over on dynos all over the world. Not a huge difference and probably less then 15 peak hp on most motors but it is still there. There are other places in most motors to find more of a difference for less dollars but in an all out motor they will find a R/S ratio that best fits there needs and in this case the heads give them awesome power up top and they need more down low so a short rod will help them where as if they were building a drag only motor where it stays at higher RPM all the time then they would probably have tried to find a little longer rod.
 I thought I would give this a bump with all the talk of G3.
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