School me on 4 link back half selection
#876185
12/10/10 02:03 AM
12/10/10 02:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264 New York, USA
Chargerfan68
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264
New York, USA
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Hey Everyone, I am going to be installing a backhalf with a 4 link setup on a '68 Charger track dedicated car. I am looking at Chris alston products but would like your advice/experiences on selecting the kit / wheel tubs/ floor material. I remember reading in "Doorslammers" that it is good if you can retain the stock floor as it acts as a shear plate for strength. Is it possible and/or beneficial to do this, or just fab new flooring with a more race oriented back half setup? The motor will have about 800 HP with a Jerico and Strange Dana. I may up the anti in the future with a turbo, so that would really lead me to set this up to handle alot more power than 800HP. Do you think a 32X16" slick with the 4 link could handle the power if the rear was adjusted properly with track time, or I would need larger slicks? I will have a 12 point cage and the car will be lightened to about 3100 lbs. Thanks for any and all advice. I would love to see pictures of your installs and finished products. Thanks , Greg.
1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: BIGBLOCK_KAT]
#876187
12/10/10 05:15 AM
12/10/10 05:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212 QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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unlawfulracing.com
great setup.
-------------------------------- Darren Beale Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: Chargerfan68]
#876189
12/10/10 09:54 AM
12/10/10 09:54 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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At the weight and hp you should be well into the 9s so you will be getting the chassis certed so plan on using the NHRA book and I would advise getting ahold of the cert book/drawings for at least a 8.50 cert
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#876190
12/10/10 10:46 AM
12/10/10 10:46 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145 Arizona, USA
gsmopar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145
Arizona, USA
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Quote:
At the weight and hp you should be well into the 9s so you will be getting the chassis certed so plan on using the NHRA book and I would advise getting ahold of the cert book/drawings for at least a 8.50 cert
+1
I used the Alston frame rails (Ladder bar), but I think there are better options if you're building a race only 4-link set up. I posted my pics below. The chassis work is close to the beginning of the album.
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/gsmopar/My%20Car/
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: Chargerfan68]
#876191
12/10/10 11:34 AM
12/10/10 11:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,022 MN
JERICOGTX
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I Live Here
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I'm installing a Chassis Engineering Top Gun 4 link in my RoadRunner, and a Rick Jones anti roll bar. Doing all the cage, and frame rails my self. Make sure you buy a 4 link that actually has some adjustment to it. The cheap kits have the adjustment points pretty far apart, and could make fine tuning of the suspension difficult.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: Chargerfan68]
#876192
12/10/10 03:10 PM
12/10/10 03:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339 somwhere
smokinwoody
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I Live Here
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heres a few pictures of the 63 Dodge that Im selling...its in the for sale section under race cars.. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v506/smokinwoody/1963%20Dodge/Competition engineering rails and the 4 links arent made yet, they are their magnum series CM pieces...I tied the front rails with 2x4 rect tubing and the rear rails are 2x3...its now a chassied/unibodied car..as you will see I sliced the stock floor pans and welded the rails all together.. any questions feel free and ask...
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: smokinwoody]
#876193
12/11/10 03:03 PM
12/11/10 03:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264 New York, USA
Chargerfan68
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OP
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Thanks so far for the replies. I am doing more research into your recommendations. GSMopar: What size tire is that? that looks around the size I am planning to run. Do I have to consider the front end height at all when designing and installing the rear half? I am currently running the drag race torsion bars and the front , naturally, sits very low. That would change if I ever decided to go with an aftermarket k-frame setup. Also, does the rear tub and floor work actually replace the strength removed from taking out the "V" brace under the package tray steel and also the removal of the quarter to stock wheel well supports. I understand the rollcage and rails will become one, but I am talking more about the outer sheetmetal to that structure. I don't want the quarters/rear outer metal to move around at all. Thanks again, greg.
1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: Chargerfan68]
#876194
12/11/10 04:47 PM
12/11/10 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145 Arizona, USA
gsmopar
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2004
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Arizona, USA
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32x17.50 When I measured it was the biggest that I could fit without stretching the wheel well opening. At the time I didn't want to repaint the car, but ended up repainting a couple years later anyway. I had all the same questions as you. This was my first back half and I was probably too conservative when it came to cutting out the rear suspension and floor pan. I did it in probably 15 or 20 different sections carefully looking for tweaks and bends in the quarter panels, rear deck lid, roof, and glass. If I were to do it again, I'd set the car up square on a jig or jack stands and using a plasma cutter take out the entire back half in one big chunk. This forum was extremely helpful. I have several gigabytes of pictures saved from the board members. Chris Alstons Chassis Works has some good online articles that were also very helpful during the process. Good luck and let me know if I can be of any help. There are more experienced people on this board that I'm sure will chime in as well. Don't forget to take a bunch of pictures! Later, Greg Ride height at rest: Suspension unloaded: 32x17.5, don't rub:
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: gsmopar]
#876195
12/12/10 03:00 AM
12/12/10 03:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264 New York, USA
Chargerfan68
OP
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264
New York, USA
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Quote:
32x17.50 When I measured it was the biggest that I could fit without stretching the wheel well opening. At the time I didn't want to repaint the car, but ended up repainting a couple years later anyway.
I had all the same questions as you. This was my first back half and I was probably too conservative when it came to cutting out the rear suspension and floor pan. I did it in probably 15 or 20 different sections carefully looking for tweaks and bends in the quarter panels, rear deck lid, roof, and glass. If I were to do it again, I'd set the car up square on a jig or jack stands and using a plasma cutter take out the entire back half in one big chunk.
This forum was extremely helpful. I have several gigabytes of pictures saved from the board members. Chris Alstons Chassis Works has some good online articles that were also very helpful during the process. Good luck and let me know if I can be of any help. There are more experienced people on this board that I'm sure will chime in as well. Don't forget to take a bunch of pictures!
Later,
Greg
Ride height at rest:
Suspension unloaded:
32x17.5, don't rub:
Thanks GSMopar,
Your Charger looks pretty awesome. I just want to try and think of everything that will affect the build before I actually start the work.
A few more questions: 1) What guage steel is used for the floor and rear firewall?
2) Did you have to cut any of the inner rear panel (where the qtr window goes) where it meets the wheel tub, or can it be left alone and additional metal to fill it to the tub?
3) What rail spacing did you go with? I am not sure whether to go with 24" or 26". I don't think I will be filling the whole tub width with tire if I go with the 32" tire. Is there any benefit to going wider if you don't actually need such wide tubs?
Thanks...I'm sure I'll have a million more.
Greg.
1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: Chargerfan68]
#876196
12/12/10 08:40 AM
12/12/10 08:40 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339 somwhere
smokinwoody
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Thanks so far for the replies. I am doing more research into your recommendations.
GSMopar: What size tire is that? that looks around the size I am planning to run.
Do I have to consider the front end height at all when designing and installing the rear half? I am currently running the drag race torsion bars and the front , naturally, sits very low. That would change if I ever decided to go with an aftermarket k-frame setup.
Also, does the rear tub and floor work actually replace the strength removed from taking out the "V" brace under the package tray steel and also the removal of the quarter to stock wheel well supports. I understand the rollcage and rails will become one, but I am talking more about the outer sheetmetal to that structure. I don't want the quarters/rear outer metal to move around at all.
Thanks again, greg.
Greg...after the X braces have been cut, a plate will be welded to the lower section of the "C" pillars and tubes will be welded in back to the frame structure...this will also tie in where the "X" braces were...
it will be a much stronger structure than when it was stock...
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: Chargerfan68]
#876199
12/12/10 09:56 AM
12/12/10 09:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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There's 1 word in chassis building that is used all the time... triangulate... so as you build keep that word in mind all the time... since your doing the back you will need to put a X bar in the back... most guys run it down off the main hoop to the bar that will mount the upper shocks
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#876200
12/12/10 01:34 PM
12/12/10 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145 Arizona, USA
gsmopar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2004
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Arizona, USA
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Quote:
1) What guage steel is used for the floor and rear firewall?
I used Chris Alston's kit for the rear firewall and floor. I think it was 16 gauge, but I'm not sure
Quote:
2) Did you have to cut any of the inner rear panel (where the qtr window goes) where it meets the wheel tub, or can it be left alone and additional metal to fill it to the tub?
The front part of the inner wheel well seals to the back part of the rear panel. I had to cut it to fit and seal the wheel tubs, but the factory interior panels still fit.
Quote:
3) What rail spacing did you go with? I am not sure whether to go with 24" or 26". I don't think I will be filling the whole tub width with tire if I go with the 32" tire. Is there any benefit to going wider if you don't actually need such wide tubs?
I didn't buy a pre welded sub frame. I think mine ended up being a little wider than 26 inches, but I don't recall at the moment. I think there is a benefit to going wider on the frame (opposite to what you mentioned above). The car will be more stable as you move the mounting points further apart (shocks and bars, ladder or 4-link). Also, I had very little room left over for wheelie bar mounts on the axle. I probably could have move the frame 2 inches further apart and made things a little easier.
Couple things to consider:
1. Quarter Max, jegs, and a few other companies offer axle mounts for your 4-link that incorporate either the rear shock mount or a wheelie bar mount on the back side. I wish I would have seen these before I started.
2. Seal everything!!! I can't tell you how many tubes of seam sealer I used, but I don't get ANY tire smoke inside the car.
3. 4-link mounts in line with the frame or inside. This is more of an issue with the ladder bar kits, but I'd check when looking at 4-links as well. When your selecting a rear frame, notice where the front bars mount. In line with the frame moves the suspension mounts further out and make the car more stable. However, pay attention to the rest of the frame because this will also decrease suspension travel if done incorrectly.
4-Link in line with frame:
Housing bracket with shock mount:
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: gsmopar]
#876201
12/12/10 01:50 PM
12/12/10 01:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
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master
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Lynchburg, VA
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A 33X10.5W will hook the car with whatever you want to put in it. I would go with quartermax as the shock mount is fixed to the bracket. If the car is set up properly you do not need adjustment those bold holes get disturbed over time. I would go ahead and move up to a round tube back half. You are already talking turbo. And when doing power adders people ussually move up in power pretty quickly. This way you can go 25.2 certification pretty easy. Might as well build it this way to start with. Call SFI a 25.2 spec will cost you $35 and is well worth it. An you cold run faster than you ever intend to at this time. But trust me when you watch your freinds spend money twice to keep up with certification you will thank me for the advice down the road. The package tray bracing is meaningless when the car is built properly like P body said trianulate. No need to X brace if you run a rear halo bar and tube joined across that makes a neater job. Another thing try to pay extra now and get a 4- link with 1/2 inch bolt holes as this will give you far more adjustment in IC.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: Leon441]
#876202
12/13/10 04:38 PM
12/13/10 04:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264 New York, USA
Chargerfan68
OP
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264
New York, USA
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Thanks guys. I am looking into everything and gathering some more questions to ask.
One more thing, with the kits, does the rear frame rails end up lining up with the rear stock crossmember? just trying to figure out where it will end up lining up...as I gather the frame rails are installed on a specific angle to the car.
Thanks, Greg.
1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
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Re: School me on 4 link back half selection
[Re: Chargerfan68]
#876204
12/13/10 08:09 PM
12/13/10 08:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145 Arizona, USA
gsmopar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,145
Arizona, USA
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Quote:
Thanks guys. I am looking into everything and gathering some more questions to ask.
One more thing, with the kits, does the rear frame rails end up lining up with the rear stock crossmember? just trying to figure out where it will end up lining up...as I gather the frame rails are installed on a specific angle to the car.
Thanks, Greg.
Mine fell short, and my frame should be longer than a 4-link sub frame.
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