Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#870638
12/09/10 02:46 PM
12/09/10 02:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,951 Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,951
Spokane Valley, WA
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Don't drive in flipflops! It's not safe when braking!!! Yep! It's winter! I can't imagine stopping this thread. Great information and thoughts here. I have been driving a Neon ACR for 8 years. I can't imagine how BAD my superbee's 11.75 factory front disks and rear drums are going to feel, not to mention the 1970 power steering, after ripping around in a car that handles like it's on rails and stops on a tick hair. "Sailing, sailing, over the bounding main!"... LOL There's no replacement for displacement. The term works for engine capacity AND brakes!
I’m listening.
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: OzHemi]
#870639
12/09/10 03:08 PM
12/09/10 03:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Safety footwear on too.
tie shirt, shorts and flip flops, what else is there safety wise?
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#870640
12/09/10 06:33 PM
12/09/10 06:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,298 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,298
West Coast, USA
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It's the total package of suspension, brakes and tires that make the cars funner to drive & safer to enjoy.
I put the 11 3/4 police/taxi rotors with quality pads on the front and Dr Diff's 2007 Mustang Cobra R discs on the rear of my 1968 & 1970 Barracudas.
I've had the '68 out for thorough field testing and the package of upgrades has paid off with huge dividends in both fun and safety.
It's the brakes working with the combo! Bigger tires, swaybars, frame connectors, Koni's and these relatively small disc brakes transformed my '68 into daily driver that is not only vastly safer to drive, but way more fun on this wonderful system of roads we have here in the states.
The '68 had fully rebuilt 9 inch drums when I got it. I drove it for 3 weeks like that, and almost wrecked it three times because it just didn't want to stop at normal speeds. I suppose I was driving like I drive modern cars, but it just wasn't in the same legue as the rest of the cars on the road with those tiny drums.
I've yet to encounter another car or driver on the road that will even attempt to stay with it into the twisties. I know they are out there, but after driving over Highway 88 in the Sierra's from Nevada to California and from San Jose to Santa Cruz over Highway 17 dozens of times, no one has even come close to staying with that old slant 6 a-body in when the road gets twisty.
I know there are plenty of guys, gals and cars out there that could smoke me, but I haven't run into them yet. I'm just saying what a nice, well-thought-out, Moparts educated guy can do with our old cars. Thanks for the schooling Team Moparts!
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: feets]
#870641
12/09/10 06:48 PM
12/09/10 06:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Don't worry Feet's; firstly, I'm not going to be jacknifed in the middle of the road, and secondly, your little car isn't going to squash me like a grape!
for the record, I have nothing against you building your car as you like with 16" brakes if that's what you choose. The point I'm making is that you don't need that to be safe driving amongst traffic.
I guess you've never seen a travel trailer on it's side after the driver ran over the moron that cut in front of him. The really nasty part is when another car slams into the roof of the overturned pickup. That makes for a nasty mess involving the highway shut down for hours and a visit by the coroner. Needless to say, they weren't home for the holidays.
Properly set up drum brakes will feel great until you get into a car with properly set up dic brakes. Either arrangement will work for the vast majority of the muscle car crowd. For those of us with a more spirited driving style only the discs will do. That doesn't mean we're a nusiance on the highway. I do enjoy playing a bit when there's nobody around. My daily commute has put me in situations where GOOD brakes saved my bacon. When the guy entered the freeway and hit the left lane between 15 and 20 mph while I was moving along at 65 mph things got... puckery. I was able to slow the hot rod down but couldn't see the guy's tail lights over my hood. That was close. It's also just one of the many idiots I have to deal with on the roads.
Of course I've seen trucks and trailers turned over many times; mine is a truck mounted camper not a trailer so I can't jacknife.....I was being semi faceceous about the idea that I'd be worried about your car hurting my truck which weighs 3x as much.
My friend Mark has a '62 'Vette with 11" drums on all 4 corners and I guarantee his stopping distance is shorter than many disc brake equipped SUV's and RV's that weigh 2x, 3x or more. I'm sure my 2008 ZX6R can stop quicker than your car, but it'd be silly to suggest your brakes aren't good enough or safe, right?
Ultimately we agree, you said it: " either arrangement will work for the vast majority of the musclecar crowd."
My POINT (again) is that there are many trucks, rv's and other vehicles on the road that have far longer stopping distances than a drum brake musclecar. You don't NEED 14" 4 wheel disks to be safe to drive on the road and I'm perfectly safe driving my truck and camper. If we all needed that level of braking to survive, then we should all drive new SRT-8's or 'Vettes and no truck or RV should be allowed on the public road system.
Nothing wrong with having as much brakes as you like but I strongly object to the idea that stock brakes render the car "unsafe" or the idea that the only cars that should have stock brakes are unused "trailer queens" (I'm responding to several other posters, not necessarily you on this sentiment)
Roadracing; fine, definitely get the big brakes. And as far as "spirited driving" goes; we all do it to some extent but triple digit speeds on public roads tend to get one in alot of trouble these days.
&
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: DPelletier]
#870642
12/09/10 07:12 PM
12/09/10 07:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
And as far as "spirited driving" goes; we all do it to some extent but triple digit speeds on public roads tend to get one in alot of trouble these days.
&
Dave
Yes, one must be careful on public roads, except when your on a road with no signs, no cops, no traffic, no nothing except asphalt. Then you just gotta do what you gotta do.
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#870643
12/09/10 09:26 PM
12/09/10 09:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 253 Orange County, CA
Mike H
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 253
Orange County, CA
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Actually, this has been a great thread, and I am to be heartily commended for coming up with the topic. You may show your appreciation by sending me car parts. Or paypal.
Here is what I've learned so far; 1) Four wheel drums are more than adequate for nearly all driving situations you are likely to encounter while sober 2) Factory drums are marginal at best in any situation 3) You stand a 90% chance of ending up in a wheelchair just driving a drum-brake car to the store to get milk 4) Factory drum brakes attract overturned campers like a trailer park draws tornados. Or something like that. I didn't follow that part real well. Got it!
I also learned: 5) Big disc setups are for looks 6) Big disc setups are indispensable 7) The bigger the discs, the quicker the jump to light speed 8) You can avoid speeding tickets if your rotors are big enough and, 9) with big enough brakes, and $23K of chassis and suspension upgrades,our mopars can be made to handle as well as a Corolla!
So whose system should I buy; Mirkwood, Bimbo, or Bear?
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Mike H]
#870645
12/09/10 10:58 PM
12/09/10 10:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Actually, this has been a great thread, and I am to be heartily commended for coming up with the topic. You may show your appreciation by sending me car parts. Or paypal.
Here is what I've learned so far; 1) Four wheel drums are more than adequate for nearly all driving situations you are likely to encounter while sober 2) Factory drums are marginal at best in any situation 3) You stand a 90% chance of ending up in a wheelchair just driving a drum-brake car to the store to get milk 4) Factory drum brakes attract overturned campers like a trailer park draws tornados. Or something like that. I didn't follow that part real well. Got it!
I also learned: 5) Big disc setups are for looks 6) Big disc setups are indispensable 7) The bigger the discs, the quicker the jump to light speed 8) You can avoid speeding tickets if your rotors are big enough and, 9) with big enough brakes, and $23K of chassis and suspension upgrades,our mopars can be made to handle as well as a Corolla!
So whose system should I buy; Mirkwood, Bimbo, or Bear?
TOOOO funny! I gotta go peee! True story. Flat towed my 63 Max Wedge Plymouth ( all drum brake car )from the Chicago area to Union Grove with my Dads 57 Chrysler 300. After a days worth of racing, we started flat towing home. Didn't get 5 miles from the track when my Dads 300 blew a wheel cylinder. Towed the rest of the way home ( about 75 miles ) using the brakes on my Plymouth to stop both cars! You could literally sizzle spit on the wheels on my Plymouth, but it never ran out of brakes. Had the guy driving my Dads 300 shittin bricks at every stop - oh what fun!!
Fastest 300
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#870648
12/10/10 02:09 AM
12/10/10 02:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074 Manitoba Canada
67autocross
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
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The car that won the Optima Street Car Challenge last month was a 69 Camaro with ABS brakes. I think it went from 0 to 60mph and back to 0 in 6.4 sec.
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: 67autocross]
#870649
12/10/10 02:21 AM
12/10/10 02:21 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,024 In the twisties
RokketRide
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,024
In the twisties
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Quote:
The car that won the Optima Street Car Challenge last month was a 69 Camaro with ABS brakes. I think it went from 0 to 60mph and back to 0 in 6.4 sec.
These are the front brakes on that car, there is a whole build thread on lateral-g
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Mike H]
#870650
12/10/10 01:33 PM
12/10/10 01:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Actually, this has been a great thread, and I am to be heartily commended for coming up with the topic. You may show your appreciation by sending me car parts. Or paypal.
Here is what I've learned so far; 1) Four wheel drums are more than adequate for nearly all driving situations you are likely to encounter while sober 2) Factory drums are marginal at best in any situation 3) You stand a 90% chance of ending up in a wheelchair just driving a drum-brake car to the store to get milk 4) Factory drum brakes attract overturned campers like a trailer park draws tornados. Or something like that. I didn't follow that part real well. Got it!
I also learned: 5) Big disc setups are for looks 6) Big disc setups are indispensable 7) The bigger the discs, the quicker the jump to light speed 8) You can avoid speeding tickets if your rotors are big enough and, 9) with big enough brakes, and $23K of chassis and suspension upgrades,our mopars can be made to handle as well as a Corolla!
So whose system should I buy; Mirkwood, Bimbo, or Bear?
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: Mike H]
#870651
12/10/10 01:44 PM
12/10/10 01:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,096
Irving, TX
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Here's a snippet from a magaine reviewing the 69 GTX: Quote:
For 1969, the GTX got a little sportier with the optional Air Grabber cold air induction system (operated via a pull-tab beneath the dash) and matte-black stripe kit – both found on the hood of this featured GTX example. Testing of the big Belvedere garnered a 7.1-second 0-to-60 time and a 179-foot 65-to-0 stopping distance. While not on par with the lighter and less-optioned Road Runner, the GTX was truly “glued together well.”
The latest review of the 392 SRT8 Challenger showed a 4250 lb car stopping from 60 mph in 114 feet.
Drum brakes won't kill you. They'll serve you well for many years. Disc brakes (and larger ones at that) will serve you just as well but hold an extra safety margin as well.
You have insurance on your car. You don't expect to have a crash but it's worth the price if there is an accident. To me, brakes are the same way. Basic stuff works but I like the extra capacity.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: So, how much braking do you really need?
[Re: feets]
#870653
12/10/10 02:16 PM
12/10/10 02:16 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
Here's a snippet from a magaine reviewing the 69 GTX:
Quote:
For 1969, the GTX got a little sportier with the optional Air Grabber cold air induction system (operated via a pull-tab beneath the dash) and matte-black stripe kit – both found on the hood of this featured GTX example. Testing of the big Belvedere garnered a 7.1-second 0-to-60 time and a 179-foot 65-to-0 stopping distance. While not on par with the lighter and less-optioned Road Runner, the GTX was truly “glued together well.”
The latest review of the 392 SRT8 Challenger showed a 4250 lb car stopping from 60 mph in 114 feet.
Drum brakes won't kill you. They'll serve you well for many years. Disc brakes (and larger ones at that) will serve you just as well but hold an extra safety margin as well.
You have insurance on your car. You don't expect to have a crash but it's worth the price if there is an accident. To me, brakes are the same way. Basic stuff works but I like the extra capacity.
That all makes sense.
For some more context; A 2010 diesel pickup shootout lists the 60mph stopping distances of a new 4 wheel disk diesel pickup (empty with exhaust brake activated) at 146' - 153'. Obviously older trucks, trucks without exhaust brakes and trucks with a load would be significantly higher. Keeping in mind the 5mph speed difference and the tire difference, the '69 GTX isn't that far off a modern pickup truck.
FWIW, the stopping distance of a fully loaded tractor trailer truck is listed at 525' from 65mph.
know what your vehicles capabilities are and drive accordingly.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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