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440 or 451 stroker?
#863525
11/25/10 06:08 PM
11/25/10 06:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee
OP
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
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Help me decide which engine to build. I have a 1976 440 block and a 1977 400 block. I have a MP. 451stroker crank (new) and also a set of TTi 440 1 7/8 ceramic coated headers. (New). My heads are 906s with 2.02 and 1.81 with roller rockers. Ive not purchased my internals, intake or carb yet. Considering the resale value of the parts I've got, would you?
build the 400 stroker or the 440?
I’m listening.
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: Big Bad Bee]
#863526
11/25/10 06:13 PM
11/25/10 06:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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To me it would depend what car it's going in and what it originally had as a motor. for eg. on an original 383 RR, I'd definitely go with the 451: if it was going in a GTX or Coronet R/T, I'd use the 440.
You probably don't care so 451 vs. 440 then the 451 wins.......but you could always stoke the 440.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: Big Bad Bee]
#863527
11/25/10 06:16 PM
11/25/10 06:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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I likeum both but if you already have the 451 crank it's a no brainer. Plus it gives you a little more room under the hood.
Last edited by Dodgem; 11/25/10 06:16 PM.
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: DPelletier]
#863528
11/25/10 07:40 PM
11/25/10 07:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 776
Eastern WA
ProStock1320
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 776
Eastern WA
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Quote:
To me it would depend what car it's going in
 The platform and intended use would help. The more info you can provide, the more accurate advice others can give you. If it is just the choice between a 440 & 451, my vote is with the 451.
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: Big Bad Bee]
#863531
11/26/10 12:34 AM
11/26/10 12:34 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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If it's going into an A body the 3/4" shorter V of a B block is much much better fit from just the shorter block. As said you do have the crank but you also said 440 headers so will these headers hit something on a B block? If so I'd go w the 440 & use the RB specific headers/sell the 451 crank and cube wise you can go higher on the 440 until CH/piston rock becomes a prob for longevity
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: Big Bad Bee]
#863532
11/26/10 12:37 AM
11/26/10 12:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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I agree , if this is for your Bee clone and you aren't putting a 6pk on it do the low deck , but be warned , if that is the MP crank that they sold for a short time and then had a closeout sale on it's more than likely going to need work to fit in the 400 block . I had one , the crank started life as an RB stock replacement crank , possibly Hemi , it's 5140 material and has HUGE counterweights on it , set it in the block and it more than likely will not sit in the bearings . I had to have the counterweights cut down on mine so it would just sit in the block .
Don't notch the bottom of the bore unless you are using LEAD pistons, otherwise you'll end up with swiss cheese looking counterweights to balance it for the stroker , after cutting mine it only needed a couple small shallow holes to balance .
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: Big Bad Bee]
#863533
11/26/10 12:44 AM
11/26/10 12:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,146
Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,146
Mesa, Arizona
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Quote:
Help me decide which engine to build. I have a 1976 440 block and a 1977 400 block. I have a MP. 451stroker crank (new) and also a set of TTi 440 1 7/8 ceramic coated headers. (New). My heads are 906s with 2.02 and 1.81 with roller rockers. Ive not purchased my internals, intake or carb yet. Considering the resale value of the parts I've got, would you?
build the 400 stroker or the 440?
451 SixPac
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: DPelletier]
#863534
11/26/10 02:09 AM
11/26/10 02:09 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
To me it would depend what car it's going in and what it originally had as a motor. for eg. on an original 383 RR, I'd definitely go with the 451: if it was going in a GTX or Coronet R/T, I'd use the 440.
You probably don't care so 451 vs. 440 then the 451 wins.......but you could always stoke the 440.
Dave
I'm going with a 451 stroker in my numbers matching 383 Road Runner. The 383 will go into safe storage to make way for 451 cubes while the 383 hood call-outs and air cleaner pie pan remain 
A 451 trumps a similarly built 440. Yes, you pay a little more for machine work but the added cost gains a lighter crankshaft and lighter pistons. Oh! depending on how much compression you want, you may have to pay more for pistons as well; I will.
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: CompSyn]
#863535
11/27/10 04:45 AM
11/27/10 04:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee
OP
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OP
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Spokane Valley, WA
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Thanks guys. As johnRR guessed, this is going in my Superbee clone and it is a factory 383 n code car. I really had my heart set on the 451. The crank will need work as john also suggested. The headers are a different design from the b units and TTi says they won't fit. All are good points. I'm leaning toward selling those beautiful pipes and buying a new pair for the b engine.
I’m listening.
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: Big Bad Bee]
#863536
11/27/10 05:33 AM
11/27/10 05:33 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445
Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
daniel_depetro
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445
Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
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451.
Lighter, more rigid, bigger.
No brainer.
It'll also allow you to fit a taller intake manifold & air cleaner.
1969 Dodge Super Bee A12 (440 Six Pack, 4-speed, Dana 60 4.10)
1972 Plymouth Road Runner (400, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
1974 Plymouth Duster 360 (360, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: daniel_depetro]
#863537
11/27/10 12:14 PM
11/27/10 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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Kalispell Mt.
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You can run longer rods in the 440 block to reduce cylinder loading and help it breath with less than ideal heads. Also you can run longer intake runners to make more TQ since that is what big blocks are supposed to do. Not saying there are no B intakes out there but there are also more intakes to choose from for the RB.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#863538
11/27/10 04:48 PM
11/27/10 04:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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If its in an original 383 car... No brainer, 451!
Be aware, however, that your Mopar crankshaft will likely have to have some work done to fit into a B Block. I can't remember if its the counterweights or the main journals, but the mopar "451 cranks are not quite drop in's. Sorta silly, you'd think Ma would know how to cook a 451 up???
Either way, I'd still go for the 451. The extra work on the crank will only cost a couple hundred bucks. The 451 is a slightly better motor, and will look correct in your Bee!
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: Big Bad Bee]
#863540
11/27/10 05:06 PM
11/27/10 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,954
Blairsden, CA
Triggerfish
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,954
Blairsden, CA
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Quote:
Thanks guys. As johnRR guessed, this is going in my Superbee clone and it is a factory 383 n code car. I really had my heart set on the 451. The crank will need work as john also suggested. The headers are a different design from the b units and TTi says they won't fit. All are good points. I'm leaning toward selling those beautiful pipes and buying a new pair for the b engine.
There's an article on www.bigblockdart.com & its in their tech section about installing Hedman 1 7/8" B body headers in an A body. I built a 451 w/ 440 Source kit, Eddy heads, etc for my 68 383 Formula S & bought a set of TTI 1 3/4" 383 A body headers & whatta joke. They put 1/2"-1" deep dimples in the tubes to clear the spark plugs & imo that compromises the already small tubes. For 451 cubes, I'd try the Headman 1 7/8" B body pipes.
Being you already have the storker crank, I'd build a sleeper 451 for your 383 car. If you have to go w/ a different stroker crank, you may consider the 470" low deck build. Either way, best of luck in your project.
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: Twostick]
#863543
11/27/10 11:54 PM
11/27/10 11:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
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Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Externally, the only difference would be the casting #'s.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: 440 or 451 stroker?
[Re: Twostick]
#863544
11/29/10 06:47 PM
11/29/10 06:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
How does the 400 compare with a 383, externally?
If you wanted to build a stroker but keep it looking as close to stock is there any big things that would stand out?
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Nope. 
Kevin
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Externally, the only difference would be the casting #'s.
There's one other slight visible difference between the 383 and 400 blocks that a keen eye would be able to pick up on.
Although completely interchangeable, the bellhousing mounting boss differed 383-to-400 blocks.
For example:
383 Bellhousing image - link
VS.
400 Bellhousing image - link
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