I just got back from the Muscle Car Nationals where I saw a boat load of beautiful cars. One thing that really get me however is they all seem to be just another face in the crowd. They are all way over restored and to boot, had a year one catalog shaken over them.

Is it just me or does this just seem plain and regular compared to some of the efforts being put forth in the resto world?

I saw a beautiful 68 Hemi Charger restored at the show by the Finer Details shop, that I heard got a perfect score at the shows judging. The MCACN's website states the stock class can have NO items deviating from the assemblyline. This car was a blatent slap in the face of that criteria. It was a repro restoration. What makes that special? What were the judges citeria? It was beautiful , but not authentic.

Anyone can shop the catalogs..where's the challenge?

Take ECS's Valiant for instance. The efforts preserve the cars history and actually restore original parts. That seems alot more commendable to me.

I am currently having a car restored by Mike Mancini's shop and the amount of attention to detail I see him and his crew putting in is incredable. He has a desire to put the car back correctly using the original parts, as if the car was being re-manufactured on the assembly line. He even restored my original brake and fuel lines for gods sakes.

To me, this is where its at. I want things as close to as they were, as possible.

Do most people want just a reproduction car? Aside from the shell and drivetrain, that's what alot of pro shops are putting out.

Whats the publics view? Give me feedback. Are my desires that of a dying breed? Do people even care whats right and whats wrong or do they only care to see shiny and new?

Matt

great post

assuming the restorer has the knowledge to provide a correct resto (which from what ive seen not many do),
the restorer is at the mercy of the customers wants, desires, ability to provide correct parts, knowledge to know whats right + wrong and the ability to locate and purchase the hard to find parts.

technique is something that can be redone over and over to get the correct look/appearance/finish, but the parts are the most difficult aspect,in my opinion.

as mentioned in another thread about the oe valiant,
original tires were located and bought for the car. a very difficult task, if one of the tires got lost or destroyed it would be a big problem to replace. but if it was a repo, all it would take is 1 phone call to get a replacement.

same goes as far as workmenship, for example, if the paint drips on the torsion bars didnt come out as desired on the first try, you can do it over and over til the desired look was had.
again, proof that the parts is the more difficult part of a resto.

how many people know the difference between an incorrectly restored part or repo part, compared to an original, and how many more care which one will go on their car? not too many i would assume.

i dont feel it really effects the value of the car in the end that much, even though it should.

clean, pretty, shinny restos and all the better quality repo parts appears to satisfy the majority of the owners, judges and restorers with little if any credit given for the "over the top" correct type parts, workmanship + finish restos

Mike is one of the restorers that does know whats right and wrong , has pride in his work and cares to do the right job.

i wouldnt call it a dying breed as i dont feel there were ever that many people that did care to do the right thing.

but Matt, the main thing is that you have the restoration that makes you happy, and not to do it to impresses anyone else, that way youll never be disappointed if the car is to YOUR liking.

and btw, you made an excellent choice with Mike.
just dont tell him that too much, we dont want it to go to his head and raise our rates

Tony

This will be a good post to following.Tony made some excellent points.How many people do know the difference between original and repop stuff,or even care.Is it easier to pick up the phone and order the reproduiction part you need and have it in a few days,or take the months,sometime years it takes to find a NOS or mint used part.In some cases you never do.Or is more that the mint and/or NOS parts are just gone.When is the last time you saw a set of correct E body 440/Hemi shocks for sale?The last set I saw was when a guy was forking over 5K for a set at Carlisle a few years back.And that's just 1 part.Tony is right on the money when he said do the car the way that makes you happy,and don't worry about what guy with the '78 Mustang II at the next show thinks.

I think the two people mentioned in Matt's post offer two completely different styles of restoration...
Whether "Mike" is better then "Ken" is not really the question. Both guys provide an excellent finished product, but both styles are worlds apart...

Can Mike cut and polish the underside of a car....I'm more then certain he can....

Can Ken (not to be confused with can can) bring a car to OE Gold certification...without a doubt..

I can't speak for either of these guys, but like Tony mention above...Their restos are customer driven...I know of a particular 70 Cuda that ate up all the awards last year, but even the owner admits it's "over restored" and most likely wouldn't win OE Gold...

The nice part of this question...I feel there's ROOM FOR EVERYBODY in this hobby from OE Gold Valiants to F.A.S.T. shootout cars....as long as it's Mopar or No Car

You bring up some good points. I say to each his own when choosing how to restore their car.
Everyone knows how expensive and hard it is to use NOS parts, so I completely understand using repo parts.
My problem is when situations occur like what you describe. If you choose to "over restore" a car, just realize it's not "correct". And if your a restoration company, don't pump yourself up as being the best restoration company in the world, if your doing Year One restorations!
What we have now is typical politics trickeling down to shows and races. If a restoration company sponsors the event, then apparently the judging staff seems to think it is ok to award trophies to the sponsoring company-whether they have the best car or not! Some shows even allow the restoration company to judge their own cars!! JUST TO BE CLEAR-IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS SHOW....
This has happened repeatedly, and is truly a lack of ethics on the part of the restoration company and the show coordinators. How this can even be allowed is beyond me, and many others have voiced concern over it. It spoils the hobby and makes people fail to participate in these events.
I agree that an original class is just that. If you have 2 cars next to each other in original class, then the one that has boatloads of NOS parts, is painted correctly, and assembled correctly should score higher than a "pretty" car! Anything less is a big joke, and I for one have had it.
I was at several shows this year watching judges. I overheard many comments that made me cringe in disbelief. I heard NOS/assembly line parts labeled as reproduction, and one judge said he couldn't tell NOS tires from repops!
The bottome line is there is little INTEGRITY in the world today and it seems to be getting worse.
I will now get off my soapbox.

As far as the reproduction parts....
There was only so many NOS parts to go around, and when they're gone, they're gone.
Having been in the Mopar Hobby for over 27 years I'm glad that the level and quantity of Mopar parts available has 10fold in the last five years...
Would I rather use the $450 Chinese Challenger tail light bezels over a $2500 NOS set...The answer is quit simple for MYcustomer clientele that's for sure

great comments + points from all of the posts above


i hope this thread stays civil,

I think I'm a lot different than most. I like to see/own a car with all correct/Chrysler parts on it. If those parts are dirty from 40 years of use I'm cool with that and I appreciate a car like that much more than a shiny, just restored car, especially one with repro parts on it.
Everyone enjoys the hobby in a different way. Most people are drawn to shiny, perfectly flat paint jobs in and under the car.

Sheldon

I like seeing cars that are driver and driven hard more than the show pony, with wheezing engines, i agree with the older original parts being on it rather than most of the repop's that are not 100% correct.

Where does the typical judge in this hobby get their training?

I think most of them get their training from reading mopar magazines or looking at restored cars, rather than researching original cars! Or they simply pick the car they like the most.

I agree that there are as many ways to "restore" a car as there are owner's ideas of what a "restored" car is - add in a "restoration" company and their idea/ability/promise to "restore" said car and you end up with infinite variables in the finished product. I've heard from a few shops that they could do an OE car but have never "bothered".

When all the stars align & the funds allow - the car becomes a show award winner or gets tucked away only to be seen by a select few (or somewhere in between).

It's all promotion & marketing that puts a product or company in the public's eye. How many reproduction parts advetised as 100% correct are on the market, and how many are OE quality good or bad? Truth is dead, and there is no such thing as "bad" press!

... but getting back to Matt's point, how do you get recognition for preserving the original DNA of a car. Most guys with experience know what kind of judging to expect. I know that other people's idea of a perfect restoration is not always going to be the same as mine. Personally, I had to draw the line as far as expenses. I don't expect to beat high dollar, over restored cars but am happy to compete. Mostly, I show my pride and joy so that others can appreciate a super fine example of an old Mopar muscle car and I enjoy any recognition I get for my efforts. If you see a nice rest that meets your criteria let the owner know how you like his car. It's not the same as winning Best of Show but will be appreciated.

...There is room for everything and everybody in the hobby....

...for those who want to pay 5k for a set of shocks, and for those who dont see the point of spending that much and who will settle for something that looks 99% close...

...there is room for those who actually want to drive their rare cars, and for those who want to roll em off and on a trailer and dont want the NOS tires to touch the ground so they mount em when the car is lifted...

...whatever makes you happy I guess....

...I personally like (for myself) a very well done resto, that I can actually drive, using some repro parts here and there when the factory parts prove too hard to locate or when they are crazy $$$...

However I also like to look at the over the top restorations at the shows as s spectator. I dont think I would really enjoy owning a car I cant drive though...

So what does one do when the supply of NOS or "assembly line" parts goes dry in the coming years?

I'm asking a serious question here. If I was to own a 100% OE car, I would want 100% OE Chrysler parts, not reproductions. Eventually though, the supply of those Chrysler parts will run out. Where do you turn then?

Restored original parts.