Re: Hughes Ported Intake Manifolds - experience w/ them?
[Re: dartman366]
#842842
11/01/10 03:04 PM
11/01/10 03:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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He built a big inch SB for a friend and it was a giant pile of cr@p. My friend got lured by the engine master thing and was absolutely hosed. It was like 13K+ IIRC. The machine work was HORRID.
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Re: Hughes Ported Intake Manifolds - experience w/ them?
[Re: Streetwize]
#842845
11/01/10 04:14 PM
11/01/10 04:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
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Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
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The technical portion of this thread reminded me of a PM I'd received from another member about a year and a half ago when a similar discussion was going on. The source said they didn't bother to post this since it would have probably just resulted in a ... This has been scrubbed of a few things, but the majority of the pertinent information remains. "I'm not a huge believer of intakes being overly restrictive to flow #'s. Case in point I had a motor running in a customers car that had a set of heads that flowed ~375 on my bench. We ran it at track on same day with 2 different intakes, One flowed around 330 max per runner on my bench, the other in the low 360's. Car ran virtually identical ET's with both intakes. I took the 330 cfm manifold which was pretty much just a port matched deal, & reworked it so it would flow ~370 per runner. Back on car... ran same as before when it was 330 cfm runners.
I've done a bunch of testing of intakes bolted to heads on the bench & never found any power playing with that stuff. You'll never bolt a manifold on & have the head stay same or pick up flow, unless the short turn in head is screwed up, in which case the manifold being bolted on may help slow airspeed down enough to keep ST stable & then #'s will go up. It doesn't matter how good the manifold is, the head will lose airflow with a manifold bolted on. It's a restriction, plain & simple even if it doesn't LOOK like one.
I'm not saying you can't make gains or even decent gains with working a manifold, I'm just saying I wouldn't get caught up in flow #'s. If the runner CSA/taper & plenum volume is correct for the head CSA/volume & engine size & intended RPM range, it will run good and make good power."
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Re: Hughes Ported Intake Manifolds - experience w/ them?
[Re: AndyF]
#842848
11/02/10 04:59 PM
11/02/10 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
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Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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FWIW (not much ), I figured it's time to "lock and load" the Makita and get back to on my M1 before I drop any more $$$ on buying another intake. (Yes, I know that's really a SawZall, but I don't see a die grinder emoticon in the options available.)I was giving it the last night and still think it should do the job OK, even though it's going to take a good bit of work to open it up to match those CNC Victor's. I suspect the hardest thing is going to be making sure there's enough CSA through the length of each runner, since the M1 has some rather significant taper between the plenum and the head.
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Re: Hughes Ported Intake Manifolds - experience w/ them?
[Re: BradH]
#842849
11/02/10 05:14 PM
11/02/10 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,888 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,888
Weddington, N.C.
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Brad,
Why not try the 337? the as delevered ports are nowhere near MW, in fact the ported SD I ran on my 508 had bigger ports at the head mating surface. I can measure them when I get home but I think they're really close to what your heads are but the runners are way bigger from the plenum than the RB M1.
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/02/10 05:17 PM.
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Re: Hughes Ported Intake Manifolds - experience w/ them?
[Re: Streetwize]
#842850
11/02/10 05:20 PM
11/02/10 05:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
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Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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I was worried the 337's ports would be MW sized at their entry in the plenum and kill off too much velocity for a 440. That's one of the drawbacks to that Stage VI intake that Roger Helgesen did for me... ran really strong from torque peak up to HP peak, but had a big dip in the curve below the torque peak because the runners were really too big for a 440, IMO. I haven't seen a 337 up close to be able to measure the runners, so I'm taking a s.w.a.g. that the same thing would apply. Wow... deja vu all over again: An Old 337 Thread
Last edited by Blew My Budget!; 11/02/10 05:53 PM.
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Re: Hughes Ported Intake Manifolds - experience w/ them?
[Re: BradH]
#842851
11/02/10 07:43 PM
11/02/10 07:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,888 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Weddington, N.C.
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Oh yeah, well I think your answer is the 440-2D with a port match and a bit of lower plenum massage. Mine's already full blown maxie or I'd let you try it, bringing the lower plenum flows in line with the uppers is probably worth at least 20 hp and I know it outflows an M1 or a Victor. I guess some people think you can have too much torque but if you get more down low and as much or more up high, I think you go faster. You can try the 337, I haven't touched it so you're welcome to port match it to yours...mine needs to go full MW anyway so you'll be doing me a favor I guess if i'm being honest I've been having a small block 'affair' for the past year or so, I'll go back eventually though I always do!
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Re: Hughes Ported Intake Manifolds - experience w/ them?
[Re: AndyF]
#842853
11/03/10 08:48 AM
11/03/10 08:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,888 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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master
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Weddington, N.C.
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Andy,
Do you think you could modify a 2D on a bridgeport to fit a 4500 by milling the existing flange/base? (i.e., without having to weld a new raised flange on top?). Looks to me like there's enough meat there to work with.
at >360cfm average flow per runner (fully ported)it outflows most singles, what holds it back is obviously a dual plane needs a bigger cfm carb to make up for the lack of an open plenum (where all 4 barrels can feed one runner). The only 4150 option that's much bigger than what I got (~1040cfm per Patrick at P-S)is the 1 barrel SV1 and I don't know how that could work on a dual plane.
Brad, I verified the 337's runners at 1.3 x 2.4 at the flange and the taper is very similar to the Stage VI RB one you sold me.
Mildly ported I don't see anything (short of a nitrous shot) that's going to out-torque the 2D from the basement to ~4500 on a 440, above it I would think it could easily keep up with a ported M1 or victor, and with more torque the vert is gonna pull harder so (as long as you hook the extra grunt to the ground) the 2d should work awesomely.
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Re: Hughes Ported Intake Manifolds - experience w/ them?
[Re: AndyF]
#842855
11/03/10 07:52 PM
11/03/10 07:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
I do have a Indy dual plane that has been port matched that I could sell you. I'm sure I'll be able to buy it back in a year when you decide to go a different way! The UPS guy is making money running parts back and forth between us.
Port matched to what size and head, maybe Id be interested. Maybe Id be interested in trieing it first., mike
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Re: Hughes Ported Intake Manifolds - experience w/ them?
[Re: tboomer]
#842859
11/04/10 11:15 AM
11/04/10 11:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
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Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I have a couple of different cutting lubricants I use, although IMO nothing does a great job w/ the open-flute aluminum-style cutters. I couldn't find my Mondello cutting fluid last night, though. Pictures? Oh, I suppose I should take some. The biggest would probably come from doing side-by-side pics w/ the unmodified RB M1 I have, too. The one I'm working on now has had a LOT of mods from the plenum area on down over the years.
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