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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#82281
07/02/08 05:31 PM
07/02/08 05:31 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Just to add more what-ifs.... I did a quick computer simulation using the Dynomation5 protools sim. using a very mild near stock 440 specs (with manifolds) and a theoretical 284/0.484 cam with 108 LSA installed at 108. Peak Power was 412@5500 RPM, and torque was 494@3500 RPM. Then I just widened the LSA to 110, and slightly shortened the intake duration, same lift and install position and got: Power 416@5000 RPM, and 509 ft/lbs @ 3,000 RPM. The interesting part is the difference in low end torque: RPM 284 cam 275 cam Difference 1000 248 278 +30 1500 366 390 +24 2000 445 463 +18 2500 480 498 +18 3000 493 509 +16 3500 494 507 +13 I know it's just a lame simulation, but I am trying to show how the power curves differ, and how the newer cams are tring to get the same or better peak power while enhancing the low end power. This dosent even address the differences in ramp rates and the greater lifts the new cams have. On the other hand the newer style cams are harder on the valve train. Then I made one change to the sim models, added headers with open exhaust. Peak HP = 478@5500, TQ = 541@4000 (284 cam) Peak HP = 476@5500, TQ = 552@3500 (275 cam) The samller cams torque advantage was still there, just not as big a difference, and with the better exhaust the 284 cam made slightly more peak power.
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#82282
07/02/08 08:22 PM
07/02/08 08:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,927
Tri-Cities, Washington
VITC_GTX
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,927
Tri-Cities, Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
Which 284 484 cam...
There is original 0235 and the later one 07697. The later one is much more streetable with less overlap. We have run the 0235 in a couple of different engines with good sucess, its downside is low vacuum so if one has power brakes...
Check it out..
I'll have to check the receipts to see which one. I do know it was bought in the mid eighties though, so it's an old one.
Purchased 10/12/1988, part number P4120235.
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#82283
07/02/08 10:22 PM
07/02/08 10:22 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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its a good cam. 9+:1 cr/ at least a 2500 stall/ 3.55s are ok, 3.91s would be better.
i ran a 509 in a 440 with stock stall and 4.56s. worked great.
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
#82284
07/02/08 10:41 PM
07/02/08 10:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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for a street car, If you want to keep your stock converter and have a lot better idle-5000 RPM performance, I'd look at the 226@.050 duration lunati voodoo cam.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: patrick]
#82285
07/02/08 10:48 PM
07/02/08 10:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
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284/484 cam is a real good performer.Keep the cam and get a converter.
I've run 11.59 with that cam in my 383 Demon.
Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: burdar]
#82287
07/02/08 11:15 PM
07/02/08 11:15 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anyone run a .484 with a 4-speed?
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
#82288
07/02/08 11:45 PM
07/02/08 11:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
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Quote:
Anyone run a .484 with a 4-speed?
Yep..
One should have at least a 3.55 rear end, we ran it with a 3.91.
Just my  .. 
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
#82289
07/02/08 11:50 PM
07/02/08 11:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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wow, what a lot of dif opinions about this cam and overall all MP stuff.
after this I'm pretty sure won't ask anything else about cams and will stick with the one I did choose for the setup I will build soon with 280/474 MP cam.
KB240 pistons
ported 452 heads
stock everything else
166K MP converter
3.55 SG on 27" wheels
and everythiung to run with A/C
THEN after this first experience, will play LAAATER with some other cams. But definitelly everything has to do with what you likes or wish to feel driving your car. Nobody will be able to sit on your own place when getting build a setup!
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: Paul_Fancsali]
#82290
07/03/08 12:04 AM
07/03/08 12:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,275
near Harrisburg, Pa
440trk
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,275
near Harrisburg, Pa
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Quote:
... The 292 and 284 are lucky to get 8-10mpg on a good day.
I've gotten 13.5-14.1 on the highway, at 70mph (with a spirited sprint or two even). 3.54 Dana, 440 4spd, .484 cam in a 71 Charger R/T. Also pulls right aroun 9-10" of vacuum at idle. May actually be a bit better than that now, as the last dyno run, we advanced the timing a few degrees.
As mentioned, throw as much timing at it as it will take. My initial is currently at 18º, which puts my total right around 39-40º.
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: Sinitro]
#82291
07/03/08 12:06 AM
07/03/08 12:06 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Anyone run a .484 with a 4-speed?
Yep..
One should have at least a 3.55 rear end, we ran it with a 3.91.
Just my ..
I'm probably going to run either 3.91 or 4.10's.
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: 440trk]
#82292
07/03/08 12:54 AM
07/03/08 12:54 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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same. got as high as 16mpg with a 440 4-speed. so for those who say this is a "race only" or "bracket cam"....
NOT
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: GTX MATT]
#82294
07/03/08 03:08 AM
07/03/08 03:08 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Speaking of the Mopar Performance Cams, has anyone ever profiled the lobes for comparison. I would like to see the actual duration numbers measured at least at these tappet lift points: 0.006", 0.020", 0.050", 0.100", 0.200". Does the 284/0.484" cam actually measure 241 duration @ 0.050" like the catalog claims? Also, Mopar lists the appliaction for the 284/0.484", 108 LSA as "Drag Mod. Comp", and even designed a 114 LSA version of the cam with the application notes "Revised centerline for improved drivability." OK, I give up. If you insist the the 284/0.484 108 LSA cam is the best cam, Then I'm wrong, along with Mopar for re-designing their cam, and the other cam manufacutrers are wrong for creating the Hughes Engines cams, or the Laniti(sp) Voodo cams, or the Comp X-tream cams or the Crower Compu-pro cams. 
Last edited by 451Mopar; 07/03/08 03:32 AM.
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#82295
07/03/08 08:23 AM
07/03/08 08:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,075
rochester,new york
plumebody
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,075
rochester,new york
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Quote:
11.80's with a weak 750 Eddy carb and a so-so trans. Bottom ends aren't as critical as heads, converter, and gear.
They are good cams for what they were designed for. Bracket racing. and the 73 440 was out of a Police Fury origanlly. Guy was going to put it in a Duster and ran out of $$. All he did was have a valve job, t-chain, 509 cam and used some old Offy intake w/ the T-quad. Car ran great on the highway.
You failed to mention that this time was with a procharger with I think 5-7psi of boost??
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: 451Mopar]
#82296
07/03/08 08:40 AM
07/03/08 08:40 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Speaking of the Mopar Performance Cams, has anyone ever profiled the lobes for comparison.
I would like to see the actual duration numbers measured at least at these tappet lift points:
0.006", 0.020", 0.050", 0.100", 0.200".
Does the 284/0.484" cam actually measure 241 duration @ 0.050" like the catalog claims?
Also, Mopar lists the appliaction for the 284/0.484", 108 LSA as "Drag Mod. Comp", and even designed a 114 LSA version of the cam with the application notes "Revised centerline for improved drivability."
OK, I give up. If you insist the the 284/0.484 108 LSA cam is the best cam, Then I'm wrong, along with Mopar for re-designing their cam, and the other cam manufacutrers are wrong for creating the Hughes Engines cams, or the Laniti(sp) Voodo cams, or the Comp X-tream cams or the Crower Compu-pro cams.
when your in THE GAME long enough.. one tends not to believe what MoPar has to say.
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: 440trk]
#82297
07/03/08 09:18 AM
07/03/08 09:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,562
Manistee, Michigan.
High Impact
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,562
Manistee, Michigan.
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I too have the 108cl 284/484 cam in a built 383.(12.5 trw's w/ported 906's,RPM intake,1 7/8 headers,PTC 3000 converter) I've been trying to get it to run better for the past couple summers and have only been able to pull around 9-10in of vacummn at idle (6-7 in gear)and still have terrible power brakes! I think some of the problem's is in the carb but one major inprovement's came from yanking one of the dizzy springs out completly! Atleast now its a million times more responsive than it was. I have no idea were the timing is at, I've been retarding it more and more and it actully runs stronger and stronger! Bottom end is better than it was too! I know I need more gear as its only got the 3.54's in it. I think next Im going to step up to a 850dp holley and try that instead of the 750 vacummn sec. one on there. I plan to keep tuning on it over the summer.  Over-all its not a bad cam to run............but there's got to be better one's. 
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
#82298
07/03/08 09:19 AM
07/03/08 09:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Anyone run a .484 with a 4-speed?
Yep..
One should have at least a 3.55 rear end, we ran it with a 3.91.
Just my ..
I'm probably going to run either 3.91 or 4.10's.
Run a 509 w/ a 4 speed and 4.10's and you'll be close to 11's. 484's and 509's have the same "drivability" so you might as well use the big bump stick.
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Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
[Re: plumebody]
#82299
07/03/08 09:24 AM
07/03/08 09:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
11.80's with a weak 750 Eddy carb and a so-so trans. Bottom ends aren't as critical as heads, converter, and gear.
They are good cams for what they were designed for. Bracket racing. and the 73 440 was out of a Police Fury origanlly. Guy was going to put it in a Duster and ran out of $$. All he did was have a valve job, t-chain, 509 cam and used some old Offy intake w/ the T-quad. Car ran great on the highway.
You failed to mention that this time was with a procharger with I think 5-7psi of boost??
nope that was a completely different car. The 68 dart ran 11's the 69 Charger was a car I had back in 91. The 67 coronet had the paxton. when I got the car it had a basic 9:1ish 440 w/ logs 484 cam and 3.55's. The car ran ok but really didn't have any bottom end (wrong cam) so I started by swapping in the Sumitt 488 cam. Ran much better and then things evloved to the supercharger. AND the 484 isn't such a great cam for a S/C car.
484's and 509's can run well but there are much better and cheaper cams if you want to use your stockish converter and 3.55's
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