Moparts
Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
Posted By: VITC_GTX
Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 06/30/08 11:28 PM
My GTX has the 284/484 Mopar cam. During recent discussions on the board I was told by many that they really disliked this cam (their opinion was the stock 440 cam was just as good under certain circumstances).
Anyway, I currently have a low stall converter (~2100 rpms) and a 3.55 suregrip. If I swap in a Dynamic or PTC 3000 rpm converter would that wake the cam up or should I change the converter and cam together? If so, what cam?
This is a 100% street car.
Posted By: wings471
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 06/30/08 11:49 PM
I've read all of those ..opinions.. myself. I have that cam in a alum. head 383 with quality parts thru-out. The motor maybe makes 450-475 hp in a '68 Coronet Boat. I had a low stall converter which made the car unfun to drive. I called Andre @ Edge racing converters and gave him the specifics. He built a 3000 stall for me. It's great from a dead stop and it is civilized in traffic. For a boat it is surprising how strong that combo is and it just keeps pulling. Before with the 2000 stall it was ugly from a dead stop. I like that cam
with the correct converter
I also run 3.55's with 29" tires.
Posted By: VITC_GTX
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 12:05 AM
Thanks, that reassuring.
I'm only running 28" tires so that should help me a little too.
Any other opinions?
Posted By: mike s
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 12:17 AM
If you have a real 9.5-1 comp in your engine they work fine.( the latest 114 c/l version works better) The newer Comp XE cams or Lunati VooDoo series are a better choice for all around street use.The newer fast ramp cams really beat them up in the low and mid range where most street geared , mild torq converter cars run. A 2600-2800 rpm converter is more than enough with the 3:55.For most cars the 280 / 470 MP cam is a better choice if you want to stay with the MP cams.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 01:08 AM
Running that cam in a 30 over 440 six pack motor 475-500 hp with a 2200 - 2400 stall converter and 410 gears and 29" tires and it is in a 3800 lb car and it is a hand full. Couldn't be more happpier with the set up.The only cam I ever ran in all my 440 motors
Thanks Moparts
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 01:23 AM
Not sure who disliked them cam, but I sure like it. I've used it over a dozen times, I had the 484/284 P4120235 in my Demon, it not only performed VERY well it also passed our BC AirCare emissions testing with NO detuning whatsoever, WITH the engine exactly as you see it....
I've ran the cam in different compression ratio engines, 383 to 440s, so long as the engine is fairly good shape and decent compression with heads that flow decently I have always LIKED the MP 484 cam.
There's ALWAYS a group that doesn't like a particular part, or a particular brand, etc etc...
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 03:08 AM
I have the same cam in my 383 powered '71 RR. Motor is about 10.25/1 compression, mild head work, 4:10 gears and 28 inch tall rear tires, it's a nice combo. BTW torque converter stalls around 2800-3k.
Posted By: VITC_GTX
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 04:09 AM
Sounds like I have a decent combo (compression/ported heads/3.55's/28's") I just need a converter to wake everything up.
Time to call Kenny at PTC I guess. Hopefully I see a significant difference.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 11:08 AM
They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 02:05 PM
I mentioned in a simular post, that the 284/484, and 292/509 purple shaft cams were designed for beacket racing. These were the cams of choice in the Mopar Performance catalogs if you were building a bracket race car (hi-stall converter, open headers, and 4.10+ gears.) The 108 lobe seperation angle tends to create a strong, but narrow torque curve in the mid to upper RPM range.
Because of the increased overlap, the idle is choppy, vacuum is low, and low end torque is fairly weak below 2,500 RPM.
The newer "street performance" cams use a slightly wider lobe seperation angle and split intake/exhaust duration to provide a wider torque curve that will still perform good in the upper RPM range, but they may not have as much "peak" torque as the Mopar purple shaft cam.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 03:17 PM
Quote:
I mentioned in a simular post, that the 284/484, and 292/509 purple shaft cams were designed for beacket racing. These were the cams of choice in the Mopar Performance catalogs if you were building a bracket race car (hi-stall converter, open headers, and 4.10+ gears.) The 108 lobe seperation angle tends to create a strong, but narrow torque curve in the mid to upper RPM range.
Because of the increased overlap, the idle is choppy, vacuum is low, and low end torque is fairly weak below 2,500 RPM.
The newer "street performance" cams use a slightly wider lobe seperation angle and split intake/exhaust duration to provide a wider torque curve that will still perform good in the upper RPM range, but they may not have as much "peak" torque as the Mopar purple shaft cam.
that's what I should have said..lol
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 04:23 PM
Quote:
They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.
Great assessment.
Just not ACCURATE.
Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.
I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...
LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.
The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.
Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?
Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.
I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 04:30 PM
Here's my wife's old daily driver for years, it was a 484/284 cammed 440 too. Power brakes with a K car booster, and it had a tunnel ram and 2x4bbls too. Rain, snow, it was her transportation to work, and at play. Ask the poor fool on Pemberton in North Vancouver with the Grand National if it was a good street performer...
And my WIFE was driving at the time!
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 04:34 PM
My buddy's 9 to 1 440 with a 484/284 was a mild street driver too- he went 12.80 on the motor and 11.63 on a small bottle at Ashcroft.
WITH 2.76 GEARS!!!!! And 29" tall slicks!
He had power brakes too.
I just wonder what the tuning was like in your cars, toss some specific parts etc at us and let's see if we can figure out where you guys went wrong or not...
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 04:44 PM
Quote:
Quote:
They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.
Great assessment.
Just not ACCURATE.
Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.
I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...
LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.
The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.
Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?
Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.
I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.
yes i have. Will the car run? sure it's a 440. last one was a67 coronet 9:1 440 906 heads with a little work, 2200 convert, headers, CH4B intake 750 Eddy car and 3.55's it was a DOOOOOOG. Put in a Summit 488 cam and it ran great. The old style 484's and 509's like to run form 3k up. I also had a 69 Charher w/ a stock 73 440 that somebody put a 509 in...doooog.
Glad yours worked. what gear? what stall?
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 04:57 PM
All I can say is if you had a doooog with a 484 or a 509 you had other issues. I've used many in both small blocks and big blocks with bone stock bottm ends and they screamed. The last was a 68 dart with a 508 stock bottom end, stock heads with a good intake carb ign etc. went 12.40's all day long in 90 degree heat and a stock convertor with 3.91's, with street tires and full exhaust. Maybe you need a new tuner?
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 04:58 PM
Idon't think the problem is the cam in itself as I have owned and still own both cams. The Mopar cams from the days gone by are just that dinosaurs.The 284 -292 all pull like crazy on upper end and are good race cams they are not good on the street. I know as I drove one for close to 20 years. Can they be made to work YES, but right now I'm using a Racer Brown custom grind that to say the least is fantastic. has all the bottom end and high end I want and pulls right to 6500, it can also break the tire loose from just flooring it in 1st and sec gear.and actually gets a legit 14mpg. The 292 and 284 are lucky to get 8-10mpg on a good day. As I said use them if you got them but face facts the new generation of cams are far better. And with fuel at $4.30 a gallon I still want to drive my car just my 10 cents
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 05:05 PM
I've ran 484 and 509 cams in all sorts of cars personally, and most of my buddies have too. I've had over a dozen cars I put the cams in myself...
Did you degree your cams or just install them stright up on the timing gears? (What timing gears?
)
My buddy had the worst gearing IMO, he had 2.76 gears with 29" tall tires, it was a 63 Dodge that was known locally as "The Lobster". It ran 11.63 at 118mph at Ashcroft on a small powershot kit, he just barely got out of second gear. I have it on tape somewhere, the whole stands starts to laugh when the car's numbers came up on the board, they knew what was in the car.
My wife's Cordoba was a 484 with a STOCK torque converter, she drove it every day. She could fry the tires at will.
Most of my cars were steeper geared but taller tired, however I did run highway gears on a few of them, no problems. I ported the heads myself, degreed the cams myself, built the engines myself, and never had any issues with any of the cams. I've never seen any of my local Mopar buddies ever "complain" about the cams the way they are complained about in this thread, I'll have to show them this. We all had good bottom end power and all had good vacuum, the vast majority of the cars had power brakes too. Small pot reservoir power brakes to boot.
A 1973 Charger was an 8.2 to 1 engine on PAPER, did you ever figure out the true compression ratio on what you were running? I'm willing to bet it wasn't what you thought!
A 509 cam and a sub 8 to 1 compression engine that's not in great shape aren't exactly a "recipe for success" if ya know what I mean?
Combine that combo with highway gears and a heavy car and for SURE the car SHOULD be a "dog", IMO anyways..?
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 05:10 PM
Quote:
All I can say is if you had a doooog with a 484 or a 509 you had other issues. I've used many in both small blocks and big blocks with bone stock bottm ends and they screamed. The last was a 68 dart with a 508 stock bottom end, stock heads with a good intake carb ign etc. went 12.40's all day long in 90 degree heat and a stock convertor with 3.91's, with street tires and full exhaust. Maybe you need a new tuner?
yeah maybe 
small block what? comparing a small block to a big block is silly. Typically 340's don't starting running well until 2500-3000 rpm. So one of those cams would work better in a SB. You had 3.91's so you'll get to the rpms quicker. if you had 3.23's in the car it would have been a dog, also if you had a more modern split duration cam in the car it'd run better too. Would my 2 cars do cool burn-outs?? yeah but those cams weren't designed for mild street applications. Funny cam swap only dropped me over a 1/2 second and had much better throttle response and created a longer powerband.
I had a well worked 383 in a 68 dart that I used a 509 in. That car ran great 11.80's but it was far from a mild street engine and the car had 4.30's and a bunch of other goodies.
Posted By: kenworth_goose
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 05:24 PM
My 68 dart was a 360 and went 12.40's all day long. If you had a 383 dart and it runs 12.80's you need to do some tuning. It should run much better than that. I had 3.91's and a stock convertor. Engine had a stock bottom end as well.
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 05:29 PM
Gone 11.99-12.0's with my pump gas street car 8.5:1 compression 340 with that cam....I currently run one in my '78 dodge truck, and its stil awesome.
There are two key issue to making that cam work....
1. Fast advance distributer, and as much timing as the engine will take without pinging.
2. It does not like the stock convertor. If you have to run the stock one, there is a comparable Comp Cams .525 lift cam that has the duration to accomidate a stock convertor. You need at least a 2500-3000, or it won't be very happy with the 484. I had a tight 8" 4800 in my '72 Cuda running 12.0's with a 340 pump gas and that cam and its currently in my '78 with a 360 in it, and the street manners are fantastic.
Now if a 484 has bad street manners, you really would not want to ride in my other street car! That cam is plane nuts.See attached.
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 05:29 PM
Quote:
The 284 -292 all pull like crazy on upper end and are good race cams they are not good on the street.
Mine were all good on the street, every single one. My buddies cars that ran on the street were excellent drivability too?
Quote:
I know as I drove one for close to 20 years.
We have alot more than 20 years under our belt, and alot more cams than just one. Maybe it's your setup, or tuning, cam install, etc etc?
Quote:
The 292 and 284 are lucky to get 8-10mpg on a good day.
I musta had alot of "good days", cause every 484/284 I ran got pretty impressive gas mileage. My Demon got better than 8-10mpg when driven mildly, and that's with gears, tunnel ram, two four barrels, etc etc...
Quote:
As I said use them if you got them but face facts the new generation of cams are far better.
I don't have enough experience with the new flat tappet hydraulics to give any great insight here, but I would hope in 30 years of advancing technology some gains could be noted. I'm pretty sure when you suggest a 484 will get "8-10mpg on a good day", and that your similar specs Racer Brown cam gets a "legit 14mpg", I have to wonder how you achieve an extra 4-6 mpg just with a cam swap from very similar grinds. It's not possible IMO, but if you believe it- I'm not here to rain on your parade. A few tenths sure, but not a 50% increase in gas mileage, IMO anyways...
Why stick with ANY flat tappet hydraulic cam if technology and mileage are what you are after anyways- isn't ANY hydraulic cam nowadays a "dinosaur"? No zinc in the oils lately only compounds the problem..
A hydraulic roller would be the way to go over any flat tappet hydraulic cam nowadays IMO. Why compromise?
Quote:
And with fuel at $4.30 a gallon I still want to drive my car just my 10 cents
I drive all my cars at $5.00 a gallon, I think you would be better looking at EFI and hydraulic roller cams (or a 4 speed auto/OD tranny) than a different hydraulic flat tappet for gas mileage worries, IMO anyways??
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 05:32 PM
11.80's with a weak 750 Eddy carb and a so-so trans. Bottom ends aren't as critical as heads, converter, and gear.
They are good cams for what they were designed for. Bracket racing. and the 73 440 was out of a Police Fury origanlly. Guy was going to put it in a Duster and ran out of $$. All he did was have a valve job, t-chain, 509 cam and used some old Offy intake w/ the T-quad. Car ran great on the highway.
Posted By: Posest
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 05:34 PM
I had one in my 340 and loved it. 3.55 and a 4 speed tho. Changed to a 292 when I freshened it up and it was also a good cam.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 06:07 PM
Quote:
My GTX has the 284/484 Mopar cam. During recent discussions on the board I was told by many that they really disliked this cam (their opinion was the stock 440 cam was just as good under certain circumstances).
Anyway, I currently have a low stall converter (~2100 rpms) and a 3.55 suregrip. If I swap in a Dynamic or PTC 3000 rpm converter would that wake the cam up or should I change the converter and cam together? If so, what cam?
This is a 100% street car.
Easier to swap out the cam than pull the trans. A few cams too think about: LUN-337A1LUN 220/220-485/485 Idle-5500, XE268 224/230-477/480 1600-5800, XE262 218/224-462/470 1300-5600
I used the Summit 488 cam 224/234-465/488 ran 12.90's in a "junk yard" 440 I also ran it in a bone stock 67 GTX w/ 3.55's logs and on radails to 13.80.
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 07:49 PM
Ran one for about 13 years in the 440 I used to have in my GTX. Worked great in that application with 8.8:1 compression (it was a stock 1973 motor I re-ringed and milled the heads on). Low buck, low maintenance, best ET of 12.53 at 108mph. At that time it had an 850 carb, 1&7/8 headers, 4000-ish stall, and 3.91s....but it also had 29.3" tires.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 07:55 PM
I have the comp version of the .484 but my motor isn't all together yet.
Anyone have sound clips of this cam in a 440?
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 07:57 PM
I have used both of these cams and yes they do run all right on the street, but to just street drive one with newer cams that are available is questionable. They love to drink gas especially in town driving. By the way the older 292 cams from the 70s and the 284 for that matter were made by racer brown. Like I said whatever floats your boat but newer cam designs have as you said 30 years on these models my car runs 4.10s and 25 tall tires so it has plenty of gear and a 2.82 1st 4 spd as well
Posted By: jeepers007
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 08:28 PM
It's fine. Ran one for years in my '68 Coronet.
383, 452 ported heads by Muscle Motors, hedders, etc.
2800 stall 12" converter
3.23 gears.
26" tires
Pulled hard from the start. No hesitation.
Definitely change the converter, and put in a shift kit.
my .02
Posted By: Blown_Hemi
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/01/08 11:19 PM
I have one in my 1978 4X4 Ramcharger. 440 + .030, 9.75:1 compression, 3.55:1 gears, 29" tires, 1.6:1 rockers and a 2500 convertor. Not really a good mileage around town cam but sounds great and makes plenty of power in the higher rpm's. Pulls about 10" of vacuum in park and have no problems stopping with power brakes.
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Posted By: 71valiant
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 12:35 AM
I just built a 360 with stock pistons and mildy ported heads. The only thing I did to slighty bump the compression was a mopar perf thin head gasket. Edelbrock air gap , carter 625cfm, headers etc. I run an elgin cam 484/484 lift 292/292 duration
230@.050. It has a nasty idle, and runs excellent with 3:91 gears and a 2500 stall converter. Its probably not the best choice for my motor, but overall I'm very satisfied.
Posted By: rrunner
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 01:23 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.
Great assessment.
Just not ACCURATE.
Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.
I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...
LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.
The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.
Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?
Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.
I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.
yes i have. Will the car run? sure it's a 440. last one was a67 coronet 9:1 440 906 heads with a little work, 2200 convert, headers, CH4B intake 750 Eddy car and 3.55's it was a DOOOOOOG. Put in a Summit 488 cam and it ran great. The old style 484's and 509's like to run form 3k up. I also had a 69 Charher w/ a stock 73 440 that somebody put a 509 in...doooog.
Glad yours worked. what gear? what stall?
Do you degree your cams? I have had very good luck with the old 484's & 509's
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 02:16 AM
Quote:
Do you degree your cams? I have had very good luck with the old 484's & 509's
Not all of them. I've tossed them in straight up on a Cloyes chain many a time. I have seen guys try running them both advanced/retarded before, but they were starting from a timing set stamping, not actually degreeing the cam at all. Some have worked, others have been pulled and degreed, the stock "straight up" position isn't always "straight up".
Posted By: Sinitro
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 02:30 AM
Which 284 484 cam...
There is original 0235 and the later one 07697. The later one is much more streetable with less overlap. We have run the 0235 in a couple of different engines with good sucess, its downside is low vacuum so if one has power brakes...
Check it out..
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 02:52 AM
Quote:
Which 284 484 cam...
There is original 0235 and the later one 07697. The later one is much more streetable with less overlap. We have run the 0235 in a couple of different engines with good sucess, its downside is low vacuum so if one has power brakes...
Check it out..
I have ONLY ran the P4120235 cam, never tried the newer one...
Power brakes with small reservoirs in most of the vehicles. No hard pedal, ever. K car boosters.... 68 A body boosters, you name it.
This was my wife's daily driver, it's booster is straight out of a K car.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 08:08 AM
I hope you don't think I said the purple shaft cams are bad? I just was pointing out the design and application differences.
I have used the 284/484 in a 318, a 383 and a 440, and the 292/509 in a 360.
Some good points about the Mopar cams are they are inexpensive, and easy on valve springs, and usually have plenty of piston to valve clearance making them easy to install in nearly stock engines. They also make good power in their RPM ranges.
My point is most newer grinds are designed to have a wider power curve, and better idle quality, while making just as much or more power (even though you may need a dyno to see the differences?)
As for the engine combination, the 318 with the 284/282 was a mostly stock 9:1 compression engine with a Edelbrock streetmaster 318 intake and 600 cfm Holley, headers with thrush mufflers and 4.10:1 gears. The problem was my TransKing hi-stall converter broke, so I ran the '67 Coronet with the stock converter. Did I mention this was built around 1978-1979? The idle was very choppy, and with the stock converter the car was slow off the line, but at 3,000 RPM it rocked.
I actually won many races with that car because it took off so slow, it would spot the other guy a car length or so before it got into the cams RPM range ant ran the other guy down on the top end.
The 360 with the 292/509 cam was a stout engine using 11:1 compression pistons, ported heads, headers, Torquer II intake and 750 Holley. The engine was in a Challenger with a 3,000+ stall converter and 4.10:1 gears. As you can tell from the combination this one ran well.
The 383 with the 284/484 was again a mild, near stock engine with 9:1 pistons, Mopar template ported heads, weiand intake and carter 750 cfm carb. I ran it with both manifolds and headers.
This was my '71 Charger with 3.23:1 gears and a factory Hi-stall converter, but it would stall around 1,800 rpm. This engine gave me problems for quite some time untill I found a problem with the carb, but the car still needed a higher stall converter.
The 440 with 284/484 I built for a friend. The engine has 9.5:1 compression, ported heads,headers,converter, etc. The large 440 runs good with this cam, but with 440 CID it's hard to overcam the engine.
In the mid 1980's to mid 1990's I used some of the Crower Compu-Pro cams. These were some of the first cams to take advantage of the larger 0.904" tappet diameter offering faster ramp rates, wider lobe seperation, higher lift per duration, and using the split intake/exhaust lobe durations where the exhaust lobe was slightly larger than the intake lobe.
Since then I have been using the Hughes Engines cams or solid roller cams (various manufacturers.)
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 11:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Do you degree your cams? I have had very good luck with the old 484's & 509's
Not all of them. I've tossed them in straight up on a Cloyes chain many a time. I have seen guys try running them both advanced/retarded before, but they were starting from a timing set stamping, not actually degreeing the cam at all. Some have worked, others have been pulled and degreed, the stock "straight up" position isn't always "straight up".
The only one I installed was the 509 in the dart. That went in straight up. and I'm sure the others did too.
Posted By: VITC_GTX
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 02:10 PM
Quote:
Which 284 484 cam...
There is original 0235 and the later one 07697. The later one is much more streetable with less overlap. We have run the 0235 in a couple of different engines with good sucess, its downside is low vacuum so if one has power brakes...
Check it out..
I'll have to check the receipts to see which one. I do know it was bought in the mid eighties though, so it's an old one.
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 04:19 PM
Quote:
I hope you don't think I said the purple shaft cams are bad? I just was pointing out the design and application differences.
I have used the 284/484 in a 318, a 383 and a 440, and the 292/509 in a 360.
Some good points about the Mopar cams are they are inexpensive, and easy on valve springs, and usually have plenty of piston to valve clearance making them easy to install in nearly stock engines. They also make good power in their RPM ranges.
My point is most newer grinds are designed to have a wider power curve, and better idle quality, while making just as much or more power (even though you may need a dyno to see the differences?)
As for the engine combination, the 318 with the 284/282 was a mostly stock 9:1 compression engine with a Edelbrock streetmaster 318 intake and 600 cfm Holley, headers with thrush mufflers and 4.10:1 gears. The problem was my TransKing hi-stall converter broke, so I ran the '67 Coronet with the stock converter. Did I mention this was built around 1978-1979? The idle was very choppy, and with the stock converter the car was slow off the line, but at 3,000 RPM it rocked.
I actually won many races with that car because it took off so slow, it would spot the other guy a car length or so before it got into the cams RPM range ant ran the other guy down on the top end.
The 360 with the 292/509 cam was a stout engine using 11:1 compression pistons, ported heads, headers, Torquer II intake and 750 Holley. The engine was in a Challenger with a 3,000+ stall converter and 4.10:1 gears. As you can tell from the combination this one ran well.
The 383 with the 284/484 was again a mild, near stock engine with 9:1 pistons, Mopar template ported heads, weiand intake and carter 750 cfm carb. I ran it with both manifolds and headers.
This was my '71 Charger with 3.23:1 gears and a factory Hi-stall converter, but it would stall around 1,800 rpm. This engine gave me problems for quite some time untill I found a problem with the carb, but the car still needed a higher stall converter.
The 440 with 284/484 I built for a friend. The engine has 9.5:1 compression, ported heads,headers,converter, etc. The large 440 runs good with this cam, but with 440 CID it's hard to overcam the engine.
In the mid 1980's to mid 1990's I used some of the Crower Compu-Pro cams. These were some of the first cams to take advantage of the larger 0.904" tappet diameter offering faster ramp rates, wider lobe seperation, higher lift per duration, and using the split intake/exhaust lobe durations where the exhaust lobe was slightly larger than the intake lobe.
Since then I have been using the Hughes Engines cams or solid roller cams (various manufacturers.)
I think we see things pretty much the same, maybe slightly different experiences.
I believe swapping out a cam will usually result in minor gains or losses when comparing similar sized cams. Differences best found on a dyno, as you say.
I don't think a cam swap from one similar cam to another similar cam - even ballpark specs- will result in 50% mileage increases or tremendously great power gains.
Swapping from a flat tappet hydraulic in a 12 to 1 engine to a roller cam will be possible to net a tremendous gain, but not what many of the above scenarios suggest.
The newer hydraulics might provide very modest gains, but I don't see why the modern hydraulic rollers wouldn't be looked at for performance gains, unless it's initial cost...? Taking the zinc out of our oil sure isn't flat tappet friendly!
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 08:16 PM
Quote:
I think we see things pretty much the same, maybe slightly different experiences.
I believe swapping out a cam will usually result in minor gains or losses when comparing similar sized cams. Differences best found on a dyno, as you say.
I don't think a cam swap from one similar cam to another similar cam - even ballpark specs- will result in 50% mileage increases or tremendously great power gains.
Swapping from a flat tappet hydraulic in a 12 to 1 engine to a roller cam will be possible to net a tremendous gain, but not what many of the above scenarios suggest.
The newer hydraulics might provide very modest gains, but I don't see why the modern hydraulic rollers wouldn't be looked at for performance gains, unless it's initial cost...? Taking the zinc out of our oil sure isn't flat tappet friendly!
We are in agreement here. A big part of my considerations when choosing a cam for a street driven car is the Altitude here in Denver kills the vacuum signal, and makes an engine that has weak low end power even worse. A stock enging that should read 20" vacuum at sea-level is lucky to see 15" vacuum at this altitude.
I have been looking at the hydraulic roller cams because of the oil quality problem, but the price of the lifters is pretty steep. I think cam and lifters cost close to $1,000!
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 08:37 PM
Quote:
I have been looking at the hydraulic roller cams because of the oil quality problem, but the price of the lifters is pretty steep. I think cam and lifters cost close to $1,000!
I went with a Comp Cams 480 lift hydraulic roller in my motorhome, I used a 1991 long block and I was lucky a buddy who worked at a local Chrysler dealership heard they were throwing out old stock of hydraulic lifter in the service area. He went to go get them for me and it was too late. They were gone.
He dove into their dumpster and retreived them, they now reside in the engine of a 360 motorhome!
I paid 400ish for the cam, so all was good!
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/02/08 09:31 PM
Just to add more what-ifs....
I did a quick computer simulation using the Dynomation5 protools sim. using a very mild near stock 440 specs (with manifolds) and a theoretical 284/0.484 cam with 108 LSA installed at 108.
Peak Power was
412@5500 RPM, and torque was
494@3500 RPM.
Then I just widened the LSA to 110, and slightly shortened the intake duration, same lift and install position and got:
Power
416@5000 RPM, and 509 ft/lbs @ 3,000 RPM.
The interesting part is the difference in low end torque:
RPM 284 cam 275 cam Difference
1000 248 278 +30
1500 366 390 +24
2000 445 463 +18
2500 480 498 +18
3000 493 509 +16
3500 494 507 +13
I know it's just a lame simulation, but I am trying to show how the power curves differ, and how the newer cams are tring to get the same or better peak power while enhancing the low end power. This dosent even address the differences in ramp rates and the greater lifts the new cams have. On the other hand the newer style cams are harder on the valve train.
Then I made one change to the sim models, added headers with open exhaust.
Peak HP =
478@5500, TQ =
541@4000 (284 cam)
Peak HP =
476@5500, TQ =
552@3500 (275 cam)
The samller cams torque advantage was still there, just not as big a difference, and with the better exhaust the 284 cam made slightly more peak power.
Posted By: VITC_GTX
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 12:22 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Which 284 484 cam...
There is original 0235 and the later one 07697. The later one is much more streetable with less overlap. We have run the 0235 in a couple of different engines with good sucess, its downside is low vacuum so if one has power brakes...
Check it out..
I'll have to check the receipts to see which one. I do know it was bought in the mid eighties though, so it's an old one.
Purchased 10/12/1988, part number P4120235.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 02:22 AM
its a good cam. 9+:1 cr/ at least a 2500 stall/ 3.55s are ok, 3.91s would be better.
i ran a 509 in a 440 with stock stall and 4.56s. worked great.
Posted By: patrick
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 02:41 AM
for a street car, If you want to keep your stock converter and have a lot better idle-5000 RPM performance, I'd look at the
226@.050 duration lunati voodoo cam.
Posted By: Chris2581
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 02:48 AM
284/484 cam is a real good performer.Keep the cam and get a converter.
I've run 11.59 with that cam in my 383 Demon.
Posted By: burdar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 03:14 AM
I ran one in My 82 Cordoba.
MP 360 short block
1976 360 heads-gasket matched with 1.88 intake 1.6 exhaust valves
X-celerator single plane intake
904 with 3500 stall conv
4.10 gears
The car weighed 3600 lbs completely stripped and I ran a best 12.71 @106mph That was with the power steering still hooked up.
Put that motor in an A-body and put bigger intake valves in it an it would be much quicker. I loved the idle by the way.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 03:15 AM
Anyone run a .484 with a 4-speed?
Posted By: Sinitro
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 03:45 AM
Quote:
Anyone run a .484 with a 4-speed?
Yep..
One should have at least a 3.55 rear end, we ran it with a 3.91.
Just my ..
Posted By: NachoRT74
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 03:50 AM
wow, what a lot of dif opinions about this cam and overall all MP stuff.
after this I'm pretty sure won't ask anything else about cams and will stick with the one I did choose for the setup I will build soon with 280/474 MP cam.
KB240 pistons
ported 452 heads
stock everything else
166K MP converter
3.55 SG on 27" wheels
and everythiung to run with A/C
THEN after this first experience, will play LAAATER with some other cams. But definitelly everything has to do with what you likes or wish to feel driving your car. Nobody will be able to sit on your own place when getting build a setup!
Posted By: 440trk
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 04:04 AM
Quote:
... The 292 and 284 are lucky to get 8-10mpg on a good day.
I've gotten 13.5-14.1 on the highway, at 70mph (with a spirited sprint or two even). 3.54 Dana, 440 4spd, .484 cam in a 71 Charger R/T. Also pulls right aroun 9-10" of vacuum at idle. May actually be a bit better than that now, as the last dyno run, we advanced the timing a few degrees.
As mentioned, throw as much timing at it as it will take. My initial is currently at 18º, which puts my total right around 39-40º.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 04:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Anyone run a .484 with a 4-speed?
Yep..
One should have at least a 3.55 rear end, we ran it with a 3.91.
Just my ..
I'm probably going to run either 3.91 or 4.10's.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 04:54 AM
same. got as high as 16mpg with a 440 4-speed. so for those who say this is a "race only" or "bracket cam"....
NOT
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 05:38 AM
Quote:
same. got as high as 16mpg with a 440 4-speed. so for those who say this is a "race only" or "bracket cam"....
NOT
I laugh at those who say that the .484 idles rough. I had the resto cam in my GTX and a guy I know with the .484 who has a Satellites car didnt idle much rougher. Another buddy just went from the .484 to the .509, didnt think the car idled rough before and it still doesnt. Im not one who picks a cam based on sound but im not very impressed with the lope of those two cams in a 440.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 07:08 AM
Speaking of the Mopar Performance Cams, has anyone ever profiled the lobes for comparison.
I would like to see the actual duration numbers measured at least at these tappet lift points:
0.006", 0.020", 0.050", 0.100", 0.200".
Does the 284/0.484" cam actually measure 241 duration @ 0.050" like the catalog claims?
Also, Mopar lists the appliaction for the 284/0.484", 108 LSA as "Drag Mod. Comp", and even designed a 114 LSA version of the cam with the application notes "Revised centerline for improved drivability."
OK, I give up. If you insist the the 284/0.484 108 LSA cam is the best cam, Then I'm wrong, along with Mopar for re-designing their cam, and the other cam manufacutrers are wrong for creating the Hughes Engines cams, or the Laniti(sp) Voodo cams, or the Comp X-tream cams or the Crower Compu-pro cams.
Posted By: plumebody
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 12:23 PM
Quote:
11.80's with a weak 750 Eddy carb and a so-so trans. Bottom ends aren't as critical as heads, converter, and gear.
They are good cams for what they were designed for. Bracket racing. and the 73 440 was out of a Police Fury origanlly. Guy was going to put it in a Duster and ran out of $$. All he did was have a valve job, t-chain, 509 cam and used some old Offy intake w/ the T-quad. Car ran great on the highway.
You failed to mention that this time was with a procharger with I think 5-7psi of boost??
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 12:40 PM
Quote:
Speaking of the Mopar Performance Cams, has anyone ever profiled the lobes for comparison.
I would like to see the actual duration numbers measured at least at these tappet lift points:
0.006", 0.020", 0.050", 0.100", 0.200".
Does the 284/0.484" cam actually measure 241 duration @ 0.050" like the catalog claims?
Also, Mopar lists the appliaction for the 284/0.484", 108 LSA as "Drag Mod. Comp", and even designed a 114 LSA version of the cam with the application notes "Revised centerline for improved drivability."
OK, I give up. If you insist the the 284/0.484 108 LSA cam is the best cam, Then I'm wrong, along with Mopar for re-designing their cam, and the other cam manufacutrers are wrong for creating the Hughes Engines cams, or the Laniti(sp) Voodo cams, or the Comp X-tream cams or the Crower Compu-pro cams.
when your in THE GAME long enough.. one tends not to believe what MoPar has to say.
Posted By: High Impact
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 01:18 PM
I too have the 108cl 284/484 cam in a built 383.(12.5 trw's w/ported 906's,RPM intake,1 7/8 headers,PTC 3000 converter) I've been trying to get it to run better for the past couple summers and have only been able to pull around 9-10in of vacummn at idle (6-7 in gear)and still have terrible power brakes! I think some of the problem's is in the carb but one major inprovement's came from yanking one of the dizzy springs out completly! Atleast now its a million times more responsive than it was. I have no idea were the timing is at, I've been retarding it more and more and it actully runs stronger and stronger! Bottom end is better than it was too! I know I need more gear as its only got the 3.54's in it.
I think next Im going to step up to a 850dp holley and try that instead of the 750 vacummn sec. one on there.
I plan to keep tuning on it over the summer.
Over-all its not a bad cam to run............but there's got to be better one's.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 01:19 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Anyone run a .484 with a 4-speed?
Yep..
One should have at least a 3.55 rear end, we ran it with a 3.91.
Just my ..
I'm probably going to run either 3.91 or 4.10's.
Run a 509 w/ a 4 speed and 4.10's and you'll be close to 11's. 484's and 509's have the same "drivability" so you might as well use the big bump stick.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 01:24 PM
Quote:
Quote:
11.80's with a weak 750 Eddy carb and a so-so trans. Bottom ends aren't as critical as heads, converter, and gear.
They are good cams for what they were designed for. Bracket racing. and the 73 440 was out of a Police Fury origanlly. Guy was going to put it in a Duster and ran out of $$. All he did was have a valve job, t-chain, 509 cam and used some old Offy intake w/ the T-quad. Car ran great on the highway.
You failed to mention that this time was with a procharger with I think 5-7psi of boost??
nope that was a completely different car. The 68 dart ran 11's the 69 Charger was a car I had back in 91. The 67 coronet had the paxton. when I got the car it had a basic 9:1ish 440 w/ logs 484 cam and 3.55's. The car ran ok but really didn't have any bottom end (wrong cam) so I started by swapping in the Sumitt 488 cam. Ran much better and then things evloved to the supercharger. AND the 484 isn't such a great cam for a S/C car.
484's and 509's can run well but there are much better and cheaper cams if you want to use your stockish converter and 3.55's
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 06:54 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Anyone run a .484 with a 4-speed?
Yep..
One should have at least a 3.55 rear end, we ran it with a 3.91.
Just my ..
I'm probably going to run either 3.91 or 4.10's.
Run a 509 w/ a 4 speed and 4.10's and you'll be close to 11's. 484's and 509's have the same "drivability" so you might as well use the big bump stick.
I already have the .484
Posted By: 65pacecar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 07:06 PM
I am running it in a 65 Sport Fury, 383 auto, 11.25:1 Compression (True), 906 Heads that have been worked a little, 3.91 Gears and I am very happy with it and the car doesn't do too bad on gas, around 14 or so unless I am getting on it. I have ran a few cars with this cam, always been happy with it.
Posted By: 383man
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 07:43 PM
Ran it in a stock 383 with 452 heads and 9.5 comp. It had the normal bolt on's of the RPM intake and a 750 DP. Had headers and a 3000 tight TA convertor with 3.91's. In my sons Dart at 3600 lbs with him in it the Dart ran as fast as 12.31 @ 110 ! This cam will make good power and run very good in the right combo. But I would not use it in a stock 383 or 440 with a stock convertor and 3.55's. Most people who dont like it just did not run it in the right combo. Ron
Posted By: maximum entropy
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/03/08 09:51 PM
i built a 383 for a guy with that cam and 1.6 rockers. we started with a stock converter and it was not so good. with a looser converter it's much better. yeah, it's an ancient design, but with appropriate compression and converter. it's a blast. it runs crazy strong for a 383 and sounds surprisingly wicked. just make sure about that converter, among other things.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 01:43 PM
Quote:
Quote:
... Most people who dont like it just did not run it in the right combo. Ron
EXACTLY
what's the right way??? I'll tell you, 3000 stall, nice headers, high compression, decent heads and 3.91's or better. So he has a stcok stall and 3.55's is it going to run well?
Posted By: VITC_GTX
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 06:02 PM
If I keep my stock compression, 28" tires, 3.55's, stock HP exhaust manifolds with 2 1/2" pipes and the 284 cam and put in a converter that flashes to 3000-3500 would that work for me?
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 06:25 PM
Quote:
If I keep my stock compression, 28" tires, 3.55's, stock HP exhaust manifolds with 2 1/2" pipes and the 284 cam and put in a converter that flashes to 3000-3500 would that work for me?
Sure it will work. The point is there are other cams that may work better, although the purple shaft/lifter kits are priced better than the Comp and Hughes cams which might alse require stiffer valve springs.
Posted By: 11secondC
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 06:42 PM
I ran it in a near 4500 lb '67 VIP. Last time I ran it with a worn out 413, RPM, 750 afb, 1.75" headers, 3.55's and a 2400 stall...best it ran was 14.17 @ 97 mph. It had a nice lope and would boil the tires at will.
Posted By: VITC_GTX
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 06:43 PM
I'm sure I could do better with another cam like you said, but I will need a converter for another cam too.
I was hoping not to crack the motor open at all. It's easier for me to change out the torque conveter, it only takes me an hour or 90 minutes.
Sounds like I need to change out the converter first, if that doesn't light a fire under the car then I will consider a new cam. I'm convinced this car is build to run a lot quicker/faster than it is. My small block Demon will blow it's doors off right now.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 07:29 PM
Quote:
I'm sure I could do better with another cam like you said, but I will need a converter for another cam too.
I was hoping not to crack the motor open at all. It's easier for me to change out the torque conveter, it only takes me an hour or 90 minutes.
Sounds like I need to change out the converter first, if that doesn't light a fire under the car then I will consider a new cam. I'm convinced this car is build to run a lot quicker/faster than it is. My small block Demon will blow it's doors off right now.
Oops, sorry for getting off the original topic.
Yes, a high stall converter will help, and likely be needed with other simular sized cams.
I have been really happy with my old Dynamic 10" race converter. The newer 9.5" converter is supposed to be even better.
As mentioned earlier, recurving the distrubitor for greater initial advance should also help.
If you have a reasonably priced chassis dyno in your area, it may be worth it to just make a baseline run with 02 sensors so you can see if the air/fuel curve is close or way off. I have seen some really nice looking big buck cars run on the chassis dyno that were so out of tune it makes you cringe.
To me, it makes no sense to throw expensive parts at a car if your not going to tune them to work right. The chassis dynos around here charge between $50 and $100 to make several baseline runs, and usually about the same amount per hour for tuning time.
The alternative is test-n-tune at the drag strip.
Tuning at the strip works, but there are so many cars at the strip here, you don't get alot of runs.
Posted By: GTX70sixpack
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 07:55 PM
I run that cam in my GTX, 4spd and 3:54s and it works great. Bottom end and good MPG. Sounds too tame at idle though.
My sons running a 509 in a 360 4spd and 3:55s and it has good bottom end to (will ignite the tires with out dumping the clutch) and is a lot livelier than the 484 but MPG is horrible
Posted By: VITC_GTX
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 10:06 PM
I did have FBO recurve my MP dizzy. I believe it's 18 initial and 35 total all in by 2500 rpm (plus or minus one or two degrees, I forgot exactly where it's at).
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 10:31 PM
Quote:
I'm sure I could do better with another cam like you said, but I will need a converter for another cam too.
I was hoping not to crack the motor open at all. It's easier for me to change out the torque conveter, it only takes me an hour or 90 minutes.
Sounds like I need to change out the converter first, if that doesn't light a fire under the car then I will consider a new cam. I'm convinced this car is build to run a lot quicker/faster than it is. My small block Demon will blow it's doors off right now.
LOL I'd rather do 3 cams then pull one trans. The 484 + moni's + stock convert + 3.55's = slow. Just get a good cam and leave the converter alone. You'll still need 3.91's even w/ a converter not to mention a good converter is $300+ and a set of 3.91's is anoher $190 just for ring/Pinion.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 10:35 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... Most people who dont like it just did not run it in the right combo. Ron
EXACTLY
what's the right way??? I'll tell you, 3000 stall, nice headers, high compression, decent heads and 3.91's or better. So he has a stcok stall and 3.55's is it going to run well?
yup
I think you need to get off the 
Tell you what you put together a stockish 440 w/ mani's, stock stall, 484 cam and 3.55's I'll do the same with and use a el-cheapo special from Summit or Jegs and spot you a light or two.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 10:36 PM
Quote:
I did have FBO recurve my MP dizzy. I believe it's 18 initial and 35 total all in by 2500 rpm (plus or minus one or two degrees, I forgot exactly where it's at).
You need about 36-38* total
Posted By: VITC_GTX
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/04/08 10:38 PM
Funny how folks are different. I would much rather swap out a converter than do a cam swap
Of course it probably helps that I have a two post lift in the shop. I would hate to do a tranny swap on jack stands again.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/05/08 01:08 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... Most people who dont like it just did not run it in the right combo. Ron
EXACTLY
what's the right way??? I'll tell you, 3000 stall, nice headers, high compression, decent heads and 3.91's or better. So he has a stcok stall and 3.55's is it going to run well?
yup
I think you need to get off the
Tell you what you put together a stockish 440 w/ mani's, stock stall, 484 cam and 3.55's I'll do the same with and use a el-cheapo special from Summit or Jegs and spot you a light or two.
why? you just a sucker for punishment? or is that just howz yah like it. 
Nope just been there w/ the 509 and 484 in stockish 440's. a stock magnum cam works better.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/05/08 01:09 PM
Quote:
Funny how folks are different. I would much rather swap out a converter than do a cam swap
Of course it probably helps that I have a two post lift in the shop. I would hate to do a tranny swap on jack stands again.
That'd be me 
Posted By: Clair_Davis
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/05/08 02:20 PM
I think I'm one of the guys who would rather replace a converter than a cam, too. Maybe that's because it seems easier to work under an A-body than under the hood of one with a 440 up front.
My setup was far from "optimal" in the sense that it wasn't going to get the quickest quarter mile times, and it wasn't perfect to live with 100% of the time, but it WAS pretty easy to drive on the street. The engine was/is a 73 HP unit with stock replacement pistons, i.e., way down in the hole. I'm thinking 8:1 is hopefull... Intake was an OEM iron unit from 68, and exhaust was the good old Hooker fenderwell units in 1-7/8", gears were 3.23's, and the converter was a super tight 11". Idle in neutral was about 1000rpm and maybe 12" of vacuum; idle in gear was 750-800rpm and maybe 8" of vacuum.
Was the bottom end a little softer than with a Magnum/Super Commando cam? Probably, and thankfully so. I still had to feather-foot the car out of the hole to get it moving quickly, and any type of acceleration contest was better attempted from a roll. It was great for impressing my friends, though. Tire spin? No problem. Hang the tail out? A quick half-throttle got you there. I knew I needed a looser converter, but I just knew there would be a lot more "sit-n-spin" going on if I did change it out.
Clair
Posted By: NachoRT74
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/05/08 08:34 PM
well replace a converter is a heavier work, but less bolts involved, no gaskets and cleaner job.
Replace cam will mean drain water, remove stuff with gaskets that could need to be replaced, if A/C equipped probably you doesn't have a recover can so will lost it, remove radiator and condenser if thats teh case, more lines etc...
all depends at the end if you are concious that's what you want because you really like the cam
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/06/08 01:27 PM
Don't forget to swap out the gears too.
Posted By: 440trk
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/07/08 01:51 AM
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... Most people who dont like it just did not run it in the right combo. Ron
EXACTLY
what's the right way??? I'll tell you, 3000 stall, nice headers, high compression, decent heads and 3.91's or better. So he has a stcok stall and 3.55's is it going to run well?
yup
I think you need to get off the
Tell you what you put together a stockish 440 w/ mani's, stock stall, 484 cam and 3.55's I'll do the same with and use a el-cheapo special from Summit or Jegs and spot you a light or two.
why? you just a sucker for punishment? or is that just howz yah like it.
Nope just been there w/ the 509 and 484 in stockish 440's. a stock magnum cam works better.
really? a stock magnum cam in my 74 400 SSP went 14.80s with 3.55s and the stock convertor.
with the 509 it went 14.00s with the same 3.55s and the stock convertor.
looks to me your logic doesn't apply.
Haven't you been paying attention? He doesn't USE logic.
In his eyes, this cam is junk because HE has never had any luck with it. If he were utilizing any logic, he would have read of the SEVERAL others who use this cam with success and realized that it's a decent cam. THEN and only then would he start to wonder why it seems that only his set-ups were dogs.
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/07/08 03:46 AM
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I too have the 108cl 284/484 cam in a built 383.(12.5 trw's w/ported 906's,RPM intake,1 7/8 headers,PTC 3000 converter) I've been trying to get it to run better for the past couple summers and have only been able to pull around 9-10in of vacummn at idle (6-7 in gear)and still have terrible power brakes! I think some of the problem's is in the carb but one major inprovement's came from yanking one of the dizzy springs out completly! Atleast now its a million times more responsive than it was. I have no idea were the timing is at, I've been retarding it more and more and it actully runs stronger and stronger! Bottom end is better than it was too! I know I need more gear as its only got the 3.54's in it.
I think next Im going to step up to a 850dp holley and try that instead of the 750 vacummn sec. one on there.
I plan to keep tuning on it over the summer.
Over-all its not a bad cam to run............but there's got to be better one's.
I'm going to suggest that after reading your tuning description you have alot bigger problems to worry about than a cam swap....
"No idea where the timing is at" and "yanking one of the dizzy springs out completely" isn't the way to tune a car to judge the performance of a camshaft, IMO.
A true 12.5 to 1 compression 383 with a smallish hydraulic cam and you don't KNOW where your timing is..?
I'm surprised you drive the car without digging in and fixing the obvious tuning problems first....
Posted By: High Impact
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/07/08 02:00 PM
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I too have the 108cl 284/484 cam in a built 383.(12.5 trw's w/ported 906's,RPM intake,1 7/8 headers,PTC 3000 converter) I've been trying to get it to run better for the past couple summers and have only been able to pull around 9-10in of vacummn at idle (6-7 in gear)and still have terrible power brakes! I think some of the problem's is in the carb but one major inprovement's came from yanking one of the dizzy springs out completly! Atleast now its a million times more responsive than it was. I have no idea were the timing is at, I've been retarding it more and more and it actully runs stronger and stronger! Bottom end is better than it was too! I know I need more gear as its only got the 3.54's in it.
I think next Im going to step up to a 850dp holley and try that instead of the 750 vacummn sec. one on there.
I plan to keep tuning on it over the summer.
Over-all its not a bad cam to run............but there's got to be better one's.
I'm going to suggest that after reading your tuning description you have alot bigger problems to worry about than a cam swap....
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To defend myself alittle, I understand that my combo has some flaws, but last year alot of members on here suggested diffrent things to make this combo work as opposed to swaping in a diffrent cam. The major consenses was that I need to look into my distribtor and that by pulling out one spring I should see a diffrence. WHICH I DID, and since, it has made driving the car a ton better I just moved on to bumping the dizzy one way or the other till the car started with a bump of the key and where it seems to PULL the strongest! GRANTED, this is not the proper way to "dial it in" but this is what I've done to "get me by" and get the car on the road. The car actually runs real good but I know it needs more ajustments to reach its full potential, but NOBODY AROUND ME IS A MOPAR GUY.........mostly CHEVY guys and they offer advice..............but basically Im on my own~
The motor is NOT an actual 12.5 to one motor.......Thats what the TRW (piston) tech guy said it would be with the CLOSED CAMBER heads, He also said it would be a "point and a half lower" with the opens, so its probably in the 11.1 range.
Basically my post was a cry for help, as I have no-where near the experience you guys have............ Thanks for your response though. 
Posted By: mrpatel
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/13/08 03:11 AM
I installed the new 114 and loved it for the 3 hours it lasted.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/13/08 02:13 PM
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... Most people who dont like it just did not run it in the right combo. Ron
EXACTLY
what's the right way??? I'll tell you, 3000 stall, nice headers, high compression, decent heads and 3.91's or better. So he has a stcok stall and 3.55's is it going to run well?
yup
I think you need to get off the
Tell you what you put together a stockish 440 w/ mani's, stock stall, 484 cam and 3.55's I'll do the same with and use a el-cheapo special from Summit or Jegs and spot you a light or two.
why? you just a sucker for punishment? or is that just howz yah like it.
Nope just been there w/ the 509 and 484 in stockish 440's. a stock magnum cam works better.
really? a stock magnum cam in my 74 400 SSP went 14.80s with 3.55s and the stock convertor.
with the 509 it went 14.00s with the same 3.55s and the stock convertor.
looks to me your logic doesn't apply.
you bragging about a 14.0???
Posted By: BigBlockMopar
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/13/08 02:24 PM
Some of you guys need to learn how to use the quote-function properly... djeesz.
My heavy '67 Newport ran 13.7 with a 284 cam. Nothing wrong with that I think.
Posted By: Blackwidow69
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 07/13/08 06:28 PM
My RR is setup as a protouring type car seeing lots of regular street duty in cities. With the old 284/484 cam in a 383 it is certianly street friendly but it is important to get it in the right combo. And I ran 13.2 at almost 107mph on low profile street tires in the car so I would say it certianly can make plenty of power & work on the street. Of course mine has a real 9.5 to 1, 3.91 gears and a stick with no need for vacuum which is good because I could not get anymore than 9" of vacuum out of mine.
Todd
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/21/10 09:42 AM
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They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.
Great assessment.
Just not ACCURATE.
Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.
I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...
LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.
The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.
Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?
Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.
I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.
Makes sense to me!!
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/21/10 09:44 AM
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They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.
Great assessment.
Just not ACCURATE.
Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.
I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...
LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.
The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.
Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?
Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.
I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.
The name of the game is to make the parts work in
harmony.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/21/10 02:37 PM
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My GTX has the 284/484 Mopar cam. During recent discussions on the board I was told by many that they really disliked this cam (their opinion was the stock 440 cam was just as good under certain circumstances).
Anyway, I currently have a low stall converter (~2100 rpms) and a 3.55 suregrip. If I swap in a Dynamic or PTC 3000 rpm converter would that wake the cam up or should I change the converter and cam together? If so, what cam?
This is a 100% street car.
I'd yank the cam and get something that will work with your combo. I didn't read all the posts but that cam along w/ the 509 is a race designed cam. It needs a lot of compression, good heads, headers, 3400 stall (or more) and at least 3.91's to be effective. I had a simial set-up in a 67 coronet when I bought it. The thing was a flat dog. I went w/ the summit 488 and it was 100% beeter for the application.
hahah thought this post looked fimilar..hey HyperSonic what's that car urun? It's a beautiful car...looks like a 10 flat car???? and nobody is saying a 484 won't run, but if you have a pretty much a stock stall and low gears there are better cams on the market.
Posted By: Blown_Hemi
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 09/04/16 02:49 AM
I run that cam in my 78 Ram charger with 1.6:1 rocker arms. I like it.
Posted By: blonby
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/04/19 06:49 PM
I was reading what you were talking about in regards to cam's
I have a 70 Charger with a 383 bb nothing real fancy about it at all. In fact I lost the cam for some reason and now will be doing some mild updates. I bought a Performer rpm manifold for it can you suggest a good cam ? This is a street car that gets driven around town and on the freeway.
Thank you
Posted By: blonby
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/05/19 12:25 AM
I was reading what you were talking about in regards to cam's
I have a 70 Charger with a 383 bb nothing real fancy about it at all. In fact I lost the cam for some reason and now will be doing some mild updates. I bought a Performer rpm manifold for it can you suggest a good cam ? This is a street car that gets driven around town and on the freeway.
Thank you
Posted By: bee1971
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/05/19 03:24 AM
Kind of like bringing up an old girlfriend or ex wife
11 year old thread
Anyways I ran that 284/484 cam in my 383 magnum for almost 25 years
It sure sounded good at idle
More info on your motor if you know - Compression - Heads
Transmission
Gears
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/05/19 03:50 AM
The Mopar purple shaft cams designed years ago are no where near as good as some other grinds the bigger cam company are making now
As already pointed out we need more information on your car and its running gear to give you a good guess
Posted By: Porter67
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/05/19 04:00 AM
You can cheat on the 284/484 and run the rhoads high bleed lifters with a stock vert.
Posted By: blonby
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/07/19 01:28 AM
Its a 9/1 compression with stock iron heads , 323 rear gears and a 727 auto trans.
I bought a edelbrock rpm manifold for it replacing the stock one and possibly a holley 750 replacing the edelbrock 650 on it.
This is a street car that im looking at doing some mild upgrades to it and looking for advice on cam selection that's got a nice idling sound to it that will perform.
it was mentioned a Comp 268H , 270H , ex268 however I have no idea what that means. I looked up Comp Cam 270H and it came up as a Chevrolet cam...be easy on me Im learning lol
Posted By: Ply72rr
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/07/19 02:33 AM
it was mentioned a Comp 268H , 270H , ex268 however I have no idea what that means. I looked up Comp Cam 270H and it came up as a Chevrolet cam...be easy on me Im learning lol
Go to the Comp Cams web site, click on products, click on camshafts, hover over AMC/CHRYSLER/DODGE and click on Big block 383-440. When the next page opens look through the hydraulic flat tappet camshafts choices and you will find the suggested cams.
Posted By: cudatom
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/07/19 09:10 AM
They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.
Hmm mine must have been an oddball. Didn't have any of those problems. Idled well ran power brakes with no problem, ran about 2600 stall, stock 906 heads. I ran 3.23 gears for several yrs. Compression 9.5,Intake Holley street dominator. Carbs AVS, AFB , Holleys all worked well. Actually liked the holley 750 dbl pumper best. When I decided to add a little more gear I ran it at the track and had a best of 12.80 at close to 3700lbs.
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/07/19 05:03 PM
[quote=EV2Bird] You can cheat on the 284/484 and run the rhoads high bleed lifters with a stock vert. [/quote
^^^ This will help.
Posted By: 2boltmain
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/08/19 11:49 AM
I have a question that is related. Its 2019- How does one get a hyd flat tappet system to last like in the 70s and 80s? I know about correct oil but should I buy Tool Steel lifters? Regular lifters but with the EDM oiling hole? Many knowledgeable people running all makes have flattened a lobe in recent times.
Posted By: Porter67
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/08/19 11:58 AM
I think its really a crapshoot, I like to find vintage cams with gentle lobes that were known to work.
Most will say normal edm lifters is your best bet, I rather think some might step up to a better cam like a hydro roller for the street.
Nothing like skidding metal off of metal and expecting good results every time, not.
I have a question that is related. Its 2019- How does one get a hyd flat tappet system to last like in the 70s and 80s? I know about correct oil but should I buy Tool Steel lifters? Regular lifters but with the EDM oiling hole? Many knowledgeable people running all makes have flattened a lobe in recent times.
Posted By: hemicar1971
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam - 02/10/19 05:56 PM
Ran the Cam Dyna. 484 lift in my runner. Runner 440-6 four speed 410. I knew this cam had lower vac but a lumpy idle. The Runner had factory 6 pack intake and carbs, headers, better ignition and no Power B-S when I ran this cam. The Runner ran 13.01 all stock and I wanted to go deep into the 12s or high 11s for a street car. I had a race car and wanted to have some fun on the street and not get beat every weekend so these few changes made that work back in the early 80s. One friend of mine has used all the mopar cams in his 1968 Charger all stock with 355s and 2500 convertor. All three cams ran OK but the 484 and 509 wanted a few more changes like intake and carb and headers. He still has the 509 in the car now but runs an aftermarket intake and carb. You have to play a little if you want the higher RPM cam to work but all these cams have there purpose.
Dragula I have a few cams much like the one in your link and these 484 509 cams are just puppies compared to the link but they are a good street use cam that works pretty good.
