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Duster alignment with Moog bushings #820472 10/03/10 12:51 AM 10/03/10 12:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Today I took the Duster to a chain store to have the front end aligned. I gave them the numbers that I wanted. A few hours later the man called, saying that there was no way that he could get the car to align. It should have been a no brainer. The car has never been wrecked, is stock height and I have the offset Moog UCA bushings in place. I asked for .75 degrees of neg camber, 4 degrees of positive caster and 1/8 inch of toe in. The man said that at zero camber, the caster was negative. The more neg he set the camber, the more neg the caster. He thinks that the bushings may have been installed wrong. When I rebuilt the front end 2 years ago, I took the upper control arms and the #7103 bushings to a machinist. He pressed them in according to the instructions in the box. I was under the assumption that the correct placement was the exact opposite, so I had him pop them out and reposition them. Correct me if I am wrong...I thought that the correct position of the offset bushings to achieve additional positive caster is the following: Front bushing has the hole closer to the fender. Rear bushing has the hole closer to the engine. I'm going to pull the upper control arms soon to refresh my memory on how I had it done. Does anyone have any pictures or examples they can share?

Re: Duster alignment with Moog bushings [Re: Kern Dog] #820473 10/03/10 12:54 AM 10/03/10 12:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH	You have them backwards for max caster.

Re: Duster alignment with Moog bushings [Re: WILD BILL] #820474 10/03/10 01:38 AM 10/03/10 01:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Heres what is wierd..I have the alignment cams set up so that the front pivot is all the way out and the rear is all the way in. Camber looks good..just slightly negative. It tracks straight and doesnt wander. It squeals a little on low speed turns. The tires show no cupping or scallops. Can anyone offer some pictures?

Re: Duster alignment with Moog bushings [Re: Kern Dog] #820475 10/03/10 02:35 AM 10/03/10 02:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,467 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,467 So Cal	Quote: ...He pressed them in according to the instructions in the box. I was under the assumption that the correct placement was the exact opposite, so I had him pop them out and reposition them. Correct me if I am wrong...I thought that the correct position of the offset bushings to achieve additional positive caster is the following: Front bushing has the hole closer to the fender. Rear bushing has the hole closer to the engine. I'm going to pull the upper control arms soon to refresh my memory on how I had it done. Does anyone have any pictures or examples they can share? Do not install per the instruction in the box. 6230193-Moog7103bushingInstall.jpg (66 downloads) Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/03/10 02:35 AM.

Re: Duster alignment with Moog bushings [Re: WILD BILL] #820476 10/03/10 02:45 AM 10/03/10 02:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,467 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,467 So Cal	Quote: You have them backwards for max caster. Here is a passenger side A-body upper with offset bushings. Look at the washer on the front bushing. The washer and center hole is toward the motor. And the rear washer is offset toward the fender. 6230197-OffsetBushingCheck.JPG (134 downloads)

Re: Duster alignment with Moog bushings [Re: autoxcuda] #820477 10/03/10 04:24 AM 10/03/10 04:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I think that the whole issue is getting clearer...

Re: Duster alignment with Moog bushings [Re: Kern Dog] #820478 10/08/10 09:31 PM 10/08/10 09:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I finally got a chance to pull the car in and get a look. I have the bushings in correctly, with the offsets facing as follows: Front bushing offset towards engine. Rear bushing offset towards fender. Could the alignment guy just be having a bad day? I would think that with a car that hasnt been wrecked should align right without these bushings, and WITH them, I should be able to get far more caster than stock. Any ideas?

Re: Duster alignment with Moog bushings [Re: Kern Dog] #820479 10/08/10 10:27 PM 10/08/10 10:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,467 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,467 So Cal	Quote: I finally got a chance to pull the car in and get a look. I have the bushings in correctly, with the offsets facing as follows: Front bushing offset towards engine. Rear bushing offset towards fender. Could the alignment guy just be having a bad day? I would think that with a car that hasnt been wrecked should align right without these bushings, and WITH them, I should be able to get far more caster than stock. Any ideas? Do the cams sort of look like this... 6240435-UcaCamAdj.JPG (69 downloads)

Re: Duster alignment with Moog bushings [Re: Kern Dog] #820480 10/08/10 10:48 PM 10/08/10 10:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio S Sport440 master
Sport440 master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio	Quote: I finally got a chance to pull the car in and get a look. I have the bushings in correctly, with the offsets facing as follows: Front bushing offset towards engine. Rear bushing offset towards fender. Could the alignment guy just be having a bad day? I would think that with a car that hasnt been wrecked should align right without these bushings, and WITH them, I should be able to get far more caster than stock. Any ideas? The statement by the alignment guy, of the more negative camber = more negative caster is wrong. EDIT I never did like the Tip of reversing the rear bushing. Sure, It will give the upper controll arm Caster adjustment its greatest sweep. That is Correct! But by reversing that rear bushing it will also pull negative camber in sooner. Witch will limit your positive Caster adjustment by your desired Camber. The camber "adjustment spec" is stopping your alignment guy from giving you more positive caster. I Bet he could get you some more positive caster at the expence of negative Camber. My idea, put the rear moog offset bushing in as recommended, offset towards the engine. That will make the upper control arm longer. Your alignment guy may have extra positive camber to play with while trying to pull some positive caster. mike Edit; Your alignment guy has made some mistatements or you have misinterpreted some things or both. Last edited by Sport440; 10/08/10 11:16 PM.

Re: Duster alignment with Moog bushings [Re: autoxcuda] #820481 10/10/10 12:15 AM 10/10/10 12:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	AutoxCuda... Yes, the picture looks the same as my setup. Sport440... Your response makes sense. If I remember right, the cars had different specs for manual vs power steering. The Power cars had something like 2 degrees of positive caster and zero camber. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel here, the settings I wanted seem attainable. I did find that the strut rod nuts were a little loose, requiring about 2 full spins to tighten. THAT would certainly affect the caster numbers!

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