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main clearances and end play???? ..AND THE WINNER IS!! #816876 09/28/10 08:02 PM 09/28/10 08:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi... W We The People OP member
We The People OP member W Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi...	Just finished mocking up, checking clearances on my new eagle 4.15 crank that came in my Mancini 493 kit. after switching shells around from saddle to saddle this is the best I could come up with for clearances. #1 .0025 #2 .0025 #3 .0025 #4 .0035 #5 .0035 the end play came out at .004 What do you all think? should I get 3 half shells with .001 extra clearance or will .0025 be all right? is that end play right for that radiused crank? thanks guys Last edited by We The People; 10/01/10 11:49 AM.

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: We The People] #816877 09/28/10 08:48 PM 09/28/10 08:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama M Monte_Smith master
Monte_Smith master M Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama	If this is a race motor, the front 3 are too tight. That end play is also tight. Is the crank off, or are the main housing bores tight? Monte

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: Monte_Smith] #816878 09/28/10 11:23 PM 09/28/10 11:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl. D dusturbd340W5 master
dusturbd340W5 master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl.	I know some people like more clearence on a race motor but my race only sb 416 has been very happy at .0025 on all 5 mains and the end play is at .006 70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: Monte_Smith] #816879 09/29/10 12:34 AM 09/29/10 12:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi... W We The People OP member
We The People OP member W Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi...	Yes it is a race engine... but not extreme, stock block studded top and bottom, aluminum caps s/r heads. most likely about 650 hp.... no dynos around here. I'd preffer .003 on the mains, thats why I posted. I can try to seat the thrust bearing a bit harder and see if the clearance grows a bit. at first it was about 0. theres alot of opinion on main clearance, I'd like to hear some on this.

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: We The People] #816880 09/29/10 12:45 AM 09/29/10 12:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi... W We The People OP member
We The People OP member W Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi...	the Mains measured consistantly @ 2.75". What is the main bore supposed to be? I havent run in to that spec before. This is the first engine I've Gone this deep into as far as clearancing and checking everything myself...there isnt a shop within 2 hours that is capable, and willing to spec stuff like this out so metticullusly..... sad I know...but I am better of doing it myself and investigating with all of you. thanks

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: We The People] #816881 09/29/10 03:16 AM 09/29/10 03:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O 70Cuda383 Too Many Posts
70Cuda383 Too Many Posts Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O	with tighter clearances, couldn't you just run a lighter weight/synthetic oil and save HP by not turning as much on the oil pump? Photobucket sucks

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: We The People] #816882 09/29/10 10:16 AM 09/29/10 10:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,005 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,005 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Yes it is a race engine... but not extreme, stock block studded top and bottom, aluminum caps s/r heads. most likely about 650 hp.... no dynos around here. What size are the holes in your main caps , mainly the #3 cap? With studs and stock caps you have to ream the holes to the next size up , not sure what's required with alum. caps .

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: JohnRR] #816883 09/29/10 10:33 AM 09/29/10 10:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi... W We The People OP member
We The People OP member W Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi...	The main bores were line honed for the aluminum caps/studs. and the engine was run with a factory .020 under steel crank, that crank had no main bearing issues....all though I dont know what the main clearances were in that setup. thats why I believe the issue is with the shells , I pretty sure the clevite 77 series I am using can be ordered + or - .001" and that would set it up with .0035 all around. that seems like the easiest solution. but I'm still looking for ideas.

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: We The People] #816884 09/29/10 10:55 AM 09/29/10 10:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY CompWedgeEngines master
CompWedgeEngines master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY	sent you PM. RIP Monte Smith Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality. WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #816885 09/29/10 11:05 AM 09/29/10 11:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi... W We The People OP member
We The People OP member W Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi...	thanks Todd

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: We The People] #816886 09/29/10 11:25 AM 09/29/10 11:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida P Performance Only top fuel
Performance Only top fuel P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida	Quote: there isnt a shop within 2 hours that is capable, and willing to spec stuff like this out so metticullusly..... sad I know...but I am better of doing it myself and investigating with all of you. thanks just curious, where in N.Y. are you ??? machine shop owner and engine builder

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: Performance Only] #816887 09/29/10 11:31 AM 09/29/10 11:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi... W We The People OP member
We The People OP member W Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi...	way up north on the St.Lawrence river. I can see Canada from my roof. Ottawa is only 50 mins away, I'm sure theres good shops there but crossing the border is a pain now.

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: We The People] #816888 09/29/10 11:38 AM 09/29/10 11:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,005 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,005 U.S.S.A.	Quote: The main bores were line honed for the aluminum caps/studs. and the engine was run with a factory .020 under steel crank, that crank had no main bearing issues....all though I dont know what the main clearances were in that setup. thats why I believe the issue is with the shells , I pretty sure the clevite 77 series I am using can be ordered + or - .001" and that would set it up with .0035 all around. that seems like the easiest solution. but I'm still looking for ideas. Not asking about the main bore sizes but the holes that the studs go thru , if they are too tight on the studs you can't set the thrust properly.

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: JohnRR] #816889 09/29/10 12:03 PM 09/29/10 12:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi... W We The People OP member
We The People OP member W Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi...	I've never noticed them being snug, they slide right down, then I just tap them down in the block with a small plastic hammer. they are Muscle Motors caps made in '2000.

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: We The People] #816890 09/29/10 12:31 PM 09/29/10 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,005 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,005 U.S.S.A.	Quote: I've never noticed them being snug, they slide right down, then I just tap them down in the block with a small plastic hammer. they are Muscle Motors caps made in '2000. They won't be snug , but they might limit front to back motion if too tight . But MM caps should have the larger holes .

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: JohnRR] #816891 09/30/10 12:06 AM 09/30/10 12:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 123 C CDoering member
CDoering member C Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 123	With the aluminum main caps I would believe there is going to be more clearance when the engine gets up to operating temp. I asked a question about main bearing clearances with aluminum caps a while back on another thread and didn't get an answer. I had aluminum mains put on a 400 block earlier this year. I measured the line bore at 70 degree room temp then stuck the block in a parts washer at 170 degrees and then measured the main clearance again and it opened up .002. So if I had .0025 clearance cold I would now be at .0045 with the block at operating temp. I didn't ever try measuring the block with iron caps to see the growth that the iron exhibits. Just thought I would post what I found. My experiences with aluminum BBC marine motors was that we ran tight clearance of about .0015 cold because the aluminum block would grow so much. Different application though.

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: CDoering] #816892 09/30/10 08:40 AM 09/30/10 08:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,091 oberlin, Ohio Rapid340 top fuel
Rapid340 top fuel Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,091 oberlin, Ohio	Quote: I measured the line bore at 70 degree room temp then stuck the block in a parts washer at 170 degrees and then measured the main clearance again and it opened up .002. So if I had .0025 clearance cold I would now be at .0045 with the block at operating temp. Dont forget your crank at 170 degrees would be larger also. 1971 Factory Appearing Duster 340 11.000 @ 122 mph

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: We The People] #816893 09/30/10 01:10 PM 09/30/10 01:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,925 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,925 NC	Quote: What is the main bore supposed to be? From Moparts.com, a member posted the main bearing cap dimensions: B - 2.8175 - 2.8180 RB - 2.9425 - 2.9430 1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: 440Jim] #816894 09/30/10 01:29 PM 09/30/10 01:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi... W We The People OP member
We The People OP member W Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 190 Communist New York State, Comi...	Thanks for the info guys. I'm going to recheck them tomorrow, along with the runout, and main bore. when I did them the other day, my father opened the big over head door, and there was a big difference in the cool insulated garage air and the weird warm storm front that was rolling through. the block started to collect condensation during the process. not sure if it affected it or not, cause we kept rechecking and getting the same numbers over a couple hours. by the end the block had warmed a bit and was staying dry. today I seated the thrust bearing a bit harder and I got .005" Anyway I decided to go through a good recheck before making a decision. better to spend my free time and know for sure than waste cash blindly.

Re: main clearances and end play???? [Re: 440Jim] #816895 09/30/10 01:31 PM 09/30/10 01:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs Bob_Coomer master
Bob_Coomer master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs	You need to get it checked, how are you checking it? Its border line now and allows NO room for margin if the crank is out any at all. I really like to know what each main bore, and crank journal measures though. Thing is if your already boarder line tight, you cant afford any thing tighter, and I highly doubt the crank is perfect. If its out of round any could be a big problem. Thats why I measure my main bores with a dial bore gauge, and measure the crank. I can then hone the block to correct and order the correct bearings is the last thing. This doesnt cost much more money either. Its exactly what I done with the Hemi. The #3 main bore was .001 tight, and #5 half a thou also. I honed the mains, and ordered the HXN bearings etc. Out of all the things that really need to be done correctly, the crank, mains, and rod sizing needs to be perfect or real close in my race engines. I set my rods and mains .003-.0035, .003 being minimal, but I know a few engine builder that like them at .0025 also... .004 thrust is tight too. IMO if you could gain another .001 some how that would be great. .006-.008 is idea IMO. [color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color] [color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]

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