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Main Bearing Help! #807952
09/19/10 11:33 AM
09/19/10 11:33 AM
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chris3 Offline OP
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I have a 340 block. The crankshaft has been turned .010 and polished. Bearings installed in the block and the mains torqued. Inside bearings measured against the crank dimensions and across the block all mains have 0.003 clearance. Install the crankshaft, torque the main studs and the crankshaft will not turn. Removed the caps install caps one at a time torque the main studs and the crankshaft will not turn with only any one cap in place. What am I missing here? Have not measured inside the caps before installing the bearing but if it has a consistant 0.003 clearance on each bearing I would think there is not a problem with the bearing thicknesses. Align hone the block? All suggestions are welcome we are just missing something here.

Pinks All Out a Bristol is coming soon.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: chris3] #807953
09/19/10 12:07 PM
09/19/10 12:07 PM
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Florida
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snook Offline
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check that the MB edges aren't into the journal fillets. May have to shave the MB's?

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: snook] #807954
09/19/10 12:57 PM
09/19/10 12:57 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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If your crakn has chamfers and the bearings are too wide they could be hitting the edge of the curve and locking it up.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: HotRodDave] #807955
09/19/10 01:05 PM
09/19/10 01:05 PM
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New Braunfels, TX
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416challenger Offline
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Also check the number 3 thrust bearing.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: chris3] #807956
09/19/10 04:09 PM
09/19/10 04:09 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Do you know how much main journal crankshaft run out you have? I had similar problems in the past on stock 318 steel cranks, they where bent on the number 2 journal(both, three years apart ) .0018 which with .0022 clearnances would not allow the crank to turn 360 degrees I ended up doing the no no and used scotchbrite to enlarge the bearing clearances I should have taken both in for straighting but I was in a hurry and both of those motors where going into my own cars that me and my wife drove as dailey drivers, both ended up working well for a long time with no problems that I know of, one car got total in a wreck and the other one was sold and went down the road for over 50000 miles before the new owner put a 360 in it


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: Cab_Burge] #807957
09/19/10 04:31 PM
09/19/10 04:31 PM
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chris3 Offline OP
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More news. The bearing are set back such that the edges are not hitting the champher on the crankshaft. Set the crank shaft in place turns free. Took the crank back out removed the center thrust bearing. Set the crank back in place. Checked end play with the shaft in place on the bearings and would move laterally and turn smooth. Put all of the caps on. Torqued the studs to 15 foot pound and the crank would not turn. Took each cap off, one at a time, and crack would not turn until the last cap was removed.

This crank has been checked for straight, the journals turn .010, polished and balanced.

Only possible thought at this point is that the caps are not aligning with the crankshaft. Thanks MOPART for all of your help. Anyone else got any ideas.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: chris3] #807958
09/19/10 08:19 PM
09/19/10 08:19 PM
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chris3 Offline OP
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Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: chris3] #807959
09/19/10 09:04 PM
09/19/10 09:04 PM
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Escondido, CA
64physhy Offline
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Did you check the caps to make sure they fit tightly in the groves? If one is loose, it may be cocking sideways a little. Just a thought.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: chris3] #807960
09/19/10 10:07 PM
09/19/10 10:07 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Quote:




Have you check the run out or can you check the run out


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: Cab_Burge] #807961
09/19/10 11:36 PM
09/19/10 11:36 PM
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Posts: 622
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chris3 Offline OP
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Cab, I was not ignoring your comment. I do appreciate all of the help with this problem. The machine shop has listed on the work order checking the crankshaft for straightness, turning both main and rod journals, polishing and balancing the crankshaft. The crankshaft is still laying in the block and I will set-up and check the run out.

As I had posted earlier when micing the crankshaft all of the journals are less than .001 different from end to end so I think the machine shop did a good job checking and finishing the crankshaft. Again thanks to all for all of the suggestions.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: chris3] #807962
09/19/10 11:52 PM
09/19/10 11:52 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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There is only a cuople of reasons the crank won't turn, there's not enough clearnances on either the main bearings or the thrust clearnance or the crank is bent I would start at the front of the block and tighten #1 main cap down at a time and see if the crank will rotate, if not remove it and do #2 and then # 3 and so on. If the crank won't turn with any of the caps tight you may have a main web bore needing align honing or align boring as a result of the block being out of alignment on the mains. Over heating the block can cause this, usually the main caps will not have any inteference fit in the block if that happens Do your main caps fit loosely or do you have to tap them into place or use the bolts to make them fit into the main saddles ? BTW, when it comes to assembling and blueprinting motors everything has to be checked, every machine shop and machinest as well as mechanics makes mistakes, it is the engine assemblers job to find the mistakes and get them corrected before the motor is ran the first time your being tested on this one, you can and will figure it out Let us know what you find and what it takes to fix it

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/19/10 11:56 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: Cab_Burge] #807963
09/20/10 09:55 AM
09/20/10 09:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 622
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chris3 Offline OP
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The main caps do not just sit down in the block. You have to give them just a slight tap and they will go in place.

With no main caps installed the crank will turn free. I installed the #1 cap, torqued it down and the crank would not turn. Took that cap off and installed the #2 cap and it would not turn. Did this to every single cap and the crank would not turn. Crank will not turn with any cap in place.

Removed the #3 main thrust bearing and cap. Set the crank in place. Crank will turn free. Install #1 cap and torque it down and the crank will not turn.

I will check the run out on the crankshaft tonight; however, I believe that I will have to have this motor align honed to get this right.

Yes we will get it fix; however, it has cost us another week-end. If we had not already spent so much money on this block, I would have set it aside and worked on another. Thanks for all of the help MOPARTS and if anyone has any ideas please let me know.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: chris3] #807964
09/20/10 10:42 AM
09/20/10 10:42 AM
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Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
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put the crank in the block and torque main caps 1,2,4 and 5
install #3 cap without the lower shell and torque it. see if the crank spins freely. i'm guessing it will.


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: Performance Only] #807965
09/20/10 10:53 AM
09/20/10 10:53 AM
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Crizila Offline
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Dumb question at this point, but did you mike the bearing shells to make sure they are actually 10 over?


Fastest 300
Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: Crizila] #807966
09/20/10 11:21 AM
09/20/10 11:21 AM
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, PA
sleepyhead416 Offline
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Dumber ? Do u have mains on right? Tangs facing one another.Also when I use studs I drill main caps 1 size bigger.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: Crizila] #807967
09/20/10 11:23 AM
09/20/10 11:23 AM
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quick77rt Offline
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A long shot? Has the block ever been align bored?

If so you might check the bearing tangs to see if they are now too big to let the bearing sit right in the block.

I had the no turn problem, I made it turn, pulled the crank, seen the two areas it was tight, used a small file on the bearing half just a bit, installed the crank with no further issues.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: quick77rt ] #807968
09/20/10 01:13 PM
09/20/10 01:13 PM
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Posts: 622
NC
chris3 Offline OP
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Tried everything except line honing. May be next. Most racing machine shops are busy until after Oct. 1 for the Civil Wars race.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: chris3] #807969
09/20/10 01:39 PM
09/20/10 01:39 PM
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Great Lakes Region
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abodiesonly1 Offline
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Quote:

The main caps do not just sit down in the block. You have to give them just a slight tap and they will go in place.

With no main caps installed the crank will turn free. I installed the #1 cap, torqued it down and the crank would not turn. Took that cap off and installed the #2 cap and it would not turn. Did this to every single cap and the crank would not turn. Crank will not turn with any cap in place.

Removed the #3 main thrust bearing and cap. Set the crank in place. Crank will turn free. Install #1 cap and torque it down and the crank will not turn.

I will check the run out on the crankshaft tonight; however, I believe that I will have to have this motor align honed to get this right.

Yes we will get it fix; however, it has cost us another week-end. If we had not already spent so much money on this block, I would have set it aside and worked on another. Thanks for all of the help MOPARTS and if anyone has any ideas please let me know.




With the crank in place, and only 1 cap installed and torqued, it has to be a bearing problem.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: abodiesonly1] #807970
09/20/10 11:25 PM
09/20/10 11:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 622
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chris3 Offline OP
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Okay, we are back with more information. Tonight we took the new bearings out. Cleaned up and installed the the old .020 bearings. Cleaned up the old damaged crankshaft. Keep in mind we broke two rods and did not damage any main bearing journals. Put the old crank in the block, installed the #1 and #4 main bearing cap, with the old .020 bearing in the cap. The crankshaft turned very smooth even on the old metal laden bearings. Possibly means that the mains do not have to be honed again.

New crankshaft is tomorrow back to the machine shop to have the crankshaft and all of the work that was paid for checked to see if it was done right. If this all checks out then we may be buying another set of bearings. As I promised I will keep everyone up to date on what actually turns out to be the problem. Thanks again for everyones help. This has been an experience.

Re: Main Bearing Help! [Re: chris3] #807971
09/21/10 09:14 AM
09/21/10 09:14 AM
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chris3 Offline OP
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