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Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Cab_Burge] #804452
08/17/13 12:16 AM
08/17/13 12:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
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State of confusion
I must admit that when the "dyno sheet" questions come up the air gets silent............4 whatever reason just go back and start on page one.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Thumperdart] #804453
08/17/13 05:59 AM
08/17/13 05:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
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RT540 Offline
top fuel
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North Sweden
Wouldn´t the biggest restriction be the cross section area at the push rod pinch? Andy, do you know that area?

Chuck at Best Machine made some good dyno numbers with B1BS heads and KB alum. block long time ago, if I remember correct. Around 900hp, maybe someone else saved some numbers from those post.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Cab_Burge] #804454
08/17/13 06:12 AM
08/17/13 06:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
pro stock
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Oologah, Oklahoma
Quote:

that combination made a best of 727 HP .....The Duster ran 9.96 at 134.8 MPH on Oregon pump gas through the exhaust with the air cleaner on weighing 3450 lbs with me in it with that combination Now how does that compute



Since you asked....695hp....

Quote:

Bottom line is I tell you guys what the results are....



True.... .....and if Andy actually put his stuff into a car and raced it, there wouldn't be any question, but he doesn't and apparently has no plans to....

Quote:

As far as AndyF and his results maybe some of you doubters ought to pitch in some cash to help pay for more dyno time with the stipulation that you get copies of the dyno sheets Some people do, some people talk.




You're right Cab, Andy is doing a great job of "talking".... ....maybe I'll start a thread next week "talking" about how I built a hydraulic cam'd 318 with iron heads and manifolds that made 650hp on Oregon pump gas and then I can write a book about it....but I won't post any Dyno sheets or run it in a car, since you'll believe me....


If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Big Squeeze] #804455
08/17/13 11:40 PM
08/17/13 11:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,225
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Posts: 43,225
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

Quote:

that combination made a best of 727 HP .....The Duster ran 9.96 at 134.8 MPH on Oregon pump gas through the exhaust with the air cleaner on weighing 3450 lbs with me in it with that combination Now how does that compute



Since you asked....695hp....

Quote:

Bottom line is I tell you guys what the results are....



True.... .....and if Andy actually put his stuff into a car and raced it, there wouldn't be any question, but he doesn't and apparently has no plans to....

Quote:

As far as AndyF and his results maybe some of you doubters ought to pitch in some cash to help pay for more dyno time with the stipulation that you get copies of the dyno sheets Some people do, some people talk.




You're right Cab, Andy is doing a great job of "talking".... ....maybe I'll start a thread next week "talking" about how I built a hydraulic cam'd 318 with iron heads and manifolds that made 650hp on Oregon pump gas and then I can write a book about it....but I won't post any Dyno sheets or run it in a car, since you'll believe me....


Sounds like you've been listening to long to some of them Okie TV star street racers , Especially if you beleive you wiil convince to beleive stuff that you make up that doesn't make any sence at all Me thinks to many keyboard racers read to much stuff written by magazine scribes that print a bunch of hoprsecrap that some engine builder or racers fed them that they know nothing about so every body takes it as the gospel Same thing on on line and purchasble HP calculators, there written by people that make thier living selling software, their not racers using the results they made
As I have said before, we that offer insights to those learning should make sure that we do no harm, ever Intentional or otherwise


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: TonyS451] #804456
08/18/13 01:14 AM
08/18/13 01:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
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Oregon
Quote:

Come on Andy, quit slacking already. We need more data (and more books, and more parts comparing dyno testing, and innovative product development, etc..etc...!!! And make sure all that comes out of your pocket while you're at it! We want more!!




Hi Tony, nice to see you stop by! I spent the day out in the shop designing new parts. Here is one new product. Large tube header flanges for the EZ heads. I added clearance for the head studs so guys don't have to notch them after the headers are finished.

7818201-flange.JPG (300 downloads)
Last edited by AndyF; 08/18/13 01:15 AM.
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804457
12/29/13 05:53 PM
12/29/13 05:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
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Oregon
Got the engine back on the dyno for some more testing last week. I was mostly interested in working on the oiling system. I had a new dry sump tank design to try out and I had a flow meter hooked up to the oil pump for the first time.

At 7000 rpm this engine has about 8 gallons per minute of oil flow. That is a little less than I expected given the unbushed lifter bores and the valve cover oilers. The oil pump section is only 1.0 inches wide but it doesn't have any trouble maintaining 75 psi at 8 gpm with 5w30 oil. Anyone else have any data on oil flow rates? I've never seen anything published other than the Milodon claim that their Mopar pump flows 15 gpm.

The air coming into the dyno cell was only 37 degrees so I had to add a bunch of jet size. Uncorrected power was way up given the cold air. Barometric pressure was 30.07 so it was a mineshaft air day. Altitude was -1500 ft when I looked at the gauge. Cold air and Q16 combine to make a lot of raw power.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804458
12/29/13 06:09 PM
12/29/13 06:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Got the engine back on the dyno for some more testing last week. I was mostly interested in working on the oiling system. I had a new dry sump tank design to try out and I had a flow meter hooked up to the oil pump for the first time.

At 7000 rpm this engine has about 8 gallons per minute of oil flow. That is a little less than I expected given the unbushed lifter bores and the valve cover oilers. The oil pump section is only 1.0 inches wide but it doesn't have any trouble maintaining 75 psi at 8 gpm with 5w30 oil. Anyone else have any data on oil flow rates? I've never seen anything published other than the Milodon claim that their Mopar pump flows 15 gpm.

The air coming into the dyno cell was only 37 degrees so I had to add a bunch of jet size. Uncorrected power was way up given the cold air. Barometric pressure was 30.07 so it was a mineshaft air day. Altitude was -1500 ft when I looked at the gauge. Cold air and Q16 combine to make a lot of raw power.




I am curious as to the suction side of the pump/inlet
tube on what kind of restriction it shows on a gauge...
I assume you took the flow reading from the oil in
or out of the filter area

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: MR_P_BODY] #804459
12/29/13 06:13 PM
12/29/13 06:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
I Win
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Posts: 31,050
Oregon
The suction side of the pump is fed with a #16 line coming off the bottom of the oil tank. The tank is positioned slightly above the pump so there is positive head. There should be almost zero restriction on the suction side of the pump.

I measured the oil flow on the pressure side of the pump. Once the oil goes thru the filter I routed it thru a flow gauge and then into the block.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804460
12/29/13 06:17 PM
12/29/13 06:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

The suction side of the pump is fed with a #16 line coming off the bottom of the oil tank. The tank is positioned slightly above the pump so there is positive head. There should be almost zero restriction on the suction side of the pump.

I measured the oil flow on the pressure side of the pump. Once the oil goes thru the filter I routed it thru a flow gauge and then into the block.




Thats what I figured for the flow meter... I didnt
know you had a big -16 supply line
EDIT
But I forgot you are running a dry sump now

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/29/13 06:20 PM.
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: MR_P_BODY] #804461
12/29/13 08:38 PM
12/29/13 08:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
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Oregon
8 gpm is about 4 feet/sec of fluid velocity in a #16 line which should be fine for a suction line. If I need to make any changes to the inlet hose I might upgrade to a #20 line since that would reduce the suction resistance and the flow velocity even more. My inlet line is only about 3 feet long so I don't think there is any issue with the #16 line but bigger is better on the inlet side.

Did you guys ever run any oil pump flow tests in the dyno room?

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Big Squeeze] #804462
12/29/13 09:54 PM
12/29/13 09:54 PM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:

Even if the dyno is happy, I still enjoy seeing the difference different parts make......

Sasquatch and an Andy F. dyno sheet..........both talked about, but never really captured..........




OK Hold the boat there..
Sasquatch makes more than any I have ever seen on a monthly basis the old fashioned way..
without ever bragging, just Doing!

He is always " Keeping it Squatchy" around here. They have dynoed MORE Mopar combos than any builder I know of. The head porter they use has won several Daytona 500's and called on by Mother Mopar for consultation many times.
Thing is most that are interested in the details want that Hard Earned info for free--ain't happening! This is the real world and that info is
what they put the kids through college with so No you can't have it for free but..every customer I know that has placed confidence in them walks away in wonder after watching their new engine run and the multiple National wins and championships just keep adding up..............


Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804463
12/29/13 10:07 PM
12/29/13 10:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

8 gpm is about 4 feet/sec of fluid velocity in a #16 line which should be fine for a suction line. If I need to make any changes to the inlet hose I might upgrade to a #20 line since that would reduce the suction resistance and the flow velocity even more. My inlet line is only about 3 feet long so I don't think there is any issue with the #16 line but bigger is better on the inlet side.

Did you guys ever run any oil pump flow tests in the dyno room?




I was never involved in any of that but I'm sure
they ran them... hell... even with something like
that you wouldnt need a dyno... just apply enough
restriction to simulate the engine and spin the pump

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2219841
12/23/16 09:20 PM
12/23/16 09:20 PM
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Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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AndyF Offline OP
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Oregon
Working on putting the 514 back on to the dyno today. Should have it running after Christmas. It has been a little over 3 years since I last ran this engine. We cracked the heads back in 2013 and the engine just got stuck in the corner of the shop while I was off working on other projects. Heads are repaired and I built some new stuff for it so now it is time to see if she still runs.

DSC_0132 (Large).JPG
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2219843
12/23/16 09:26 PM
12/23/16 09:26 PM
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Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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AndyF Offline OP
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Oregon
Lots of oil lines to hook up with the 5 stage dry sump. I upgraded to a -20 line for the pump feed line this time around. The scavenge is a -16 line.

DSC_0144 (Large).JPG
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2219894
12/23/16 10:59 PM
12/23/16 10:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,506
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Is this a pre-trick flow test, or is it getting different pistons with the other heads?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2219913
12/23/16 11:39 PM
12/23/16 11:39 PM
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Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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AndyF Offline OP
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Oregon
I haven't figured it all out yet. I wanted to get this engine back running if I could. It if runs great then I'll do some testing with it. If the heads are shot then I'll pull it down and convert it over to the Trick Flow 270 heads. If I put the TF heads on this block I'll get different pistons so I can run pump gas. I think the 15:1 setup is too big of a hassle for me.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2220150
12/24/16 02:25 PM
12/24/16 02:25 PM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Andy - Which heads cracked, and in what part of the head(s)?

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2220171
12/24/16 02:50 PM
12/24/16 02:50 PM
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Oregon
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Oregon
Indy EZ heads cracked in the chamber. I sent them to Fastlane Machine in Utah for repair. I'll dial back the ignition timing this time and maybe run it a little fatter.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2220204
12/24/16 03:28 PM
12/24/16 03:28 PM
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Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon Offline
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New Lenox IL
Originally Posted By AndyF
Quote:
Come on Andy, quit slacking already. We need more data (and more books, and more parts comparing dyno testing, and innovative product development, etc..etc...!!! And make sure all that comes out of your pocket while you're at it! We want more!!


Hi Tony, nice to see you stop by! I spent the day out in the shop designing new parts. Here is one new product. Large tube header flanges for the EZ heads. I added clearance for the head studs so guys don't have to notch them after the headers are finished.


Hi Andy Merry Christmas,
A couple questions on the flanges if you don't mind?
What size are the openings?
Will they work on SR MW heads?
Will you make them in stainless?

Thanks again, Don

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2222512
12/28/16 11:45 PM
12/28/16 11:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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Oregon
Made some dyno pulls today with both X16 and Q16 fuel. Nice day for dyno testing, air density was 0.080 or 105%. Temp was 40 degrees with 30.20 on the barometer. Elevation was something like -1500 feet. 35 grains of moisture which is low but we were close to the dew point so it was super foggy and cold outside.

Engine was making a little over 900 hp with a 97% correction factor so we were losing 3% of power to the correction. It would be making roughly 930 hp uncorrected. The Q16 was worth some power but we didn't get the jetting quite perfect yet. Try some more tomorrow and I'm going to try some runs on C45 also.

BLP set up the carb so it can use C16, Q16 or C45. They sent complete tuning kits with the carb for the different fuels. Each fuel requires a unique set of metering blocks as well as changes to the air bleeds and upper jets.

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