|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: ]
#804412
07/20/13 01:40 PM
07/20/13 01:40 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
AndyF
OP
I Win
|
OP
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
|
Quote:
Can a dry sump pan be made smaller ( shallower ) in the front if you are running an Alterkation front suspension and what would be a minimum depth for a dry sump pan lets say for 14-71 roots blown Hemi.
You can have anything you want built. I've had Charlie build my last couple of dry sump pans. Just send him a drawing and get a quote.
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#804415
07/21/13 09:58 AM
07/21/13 09:58 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
|
That's a nice gain with that manifold Andy  Did the extended runners in the Wilson intake broaden the torque curve compared to the other Victor intake? Was also nice to see the Renegade vs VP fuel. Do you have an average HP/Torque difference between the two fuels? Thanks for posting some pics 
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: Performance Only]
#804416
07/22/13 02:09 PM
07/22/13 02:09 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 167
mi
dirty magnum
member
|
member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 167
mi
|
Quote:
Quote:
Great work as always, andy!
Any dyno sheets you can post up?
Be interesting to see where the hp/torque curves overlay, I'd say the majority of the 500" stuff on here are aimed more toward true 'dual purpose' street/strip car....so more power up top at the expense of torque through the middle isn't always the best trade-off on a heavier car with street gears and an automatic.
Thanks! 
Bobby
I think now that your dyno shows around 1.8 HP per cube, that engine has become quite the dyno mule. It makes me wonder if people across the country could follow that exact recipe and come up with the same numbers consistently. To think An EZ headed combo could make that much horsepower (928 HP so far)is surprising at the very least. I've seen guy's build B-1 combo's that only make about 25-50 HP more than that.
I have to admit that I too and I'm sure many others as well would really like to see the raw data from some of those dyno sessions. By that I mean all the actual meaningful stuff like BSFC, BMEP, SCFM, etc. etc. Admittedly I'm somewhat surprised at your unwillingness to share that info and so are many others that have shared their thoughts with me.
With all that aside, as an engine builder myself I have a pretty good idea how much time and expense has gone into getting the engine to where it is at this point. Thanks for sharing some of what you've done so far. I (and many others)just think it would be great if you would go to that next step on the dyno info.
?????
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: roadhazard]
#804418
07/22/13 04:22 PM
07/22/13 04:22 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
AndyF
OP
I Win
|
OP
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
|
Quote:
That's a nice gain with that manifold Andy
Did the extended runners in the Wilson intake broaden the torque curve compared to the other Victor intake?
Was also nice to see the Renegade vs VP fuel. Do you have an average HP/Torque difference between the two fuels?
Thanks for posting some pics
Hi Greg,
We only ran 5000 to 7000 rpm so I can't say if the torque curve got broader or not. The Wilson intake just lifted the whole curve by roughly 35 hp. The Q-16 gas lifted again another 15 hp or so. If I put the engine back on the dyno the next thing I'll try is adding jet. The engineer at VP told me to keep adding jet until the motor starts to lose power. We added a couple steps of jet and motor kept making more power. So I don't know where the limit is.
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: BradH]
#804419
07/22/13 04:24 PM
07/22/13 04:24 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
AndyF
OP
I Win
|
OP
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
|
Quote:
Quote:
The intake is back from Wilson. They did a super nice job on it. I don't know how they port these things, but the finish is super nice all the way down the runners.
I still  when I look at the work Wilson did to that intake...
I agree. I still can't figure out how they did this work. The finish looks like they took super tiny cuts on a CNC mill but I don't see how that is possible. If they did this work by hand they are very, very skilled. The porting work did cost about $1000 so it wasn't cheap. But it worked and it looks super cool.
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: Performance Only]
#804420
07/22/13 04:59 PM
07/22/13 04:59 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Great work as always, andy!
Any dyno sheets you can post up?
Be interesting to see where the hp/torque curves overlay, I'd say the majority of the 500" stuff on here are aimed more toward true 'dual purpose' street/strip car....so more power up top at the expense of torque through the middle isn't always the best trade-off on a heavier car with street gears and an automatic.
Thanks!
Bobby
I think now that your dyno shows around 1.8 HP per cube, that engine has become quite the dyno mule. It makes me wonder if people across the country could follow that exact recipe and come up with the same numbers consistently. To think An EZ headed combo could make that much horsepower (928 HP so far)is surprising at the very least. I've seen guy's build B-1 combo's that only make about 25-50 HP more than that.
I have to admit that I too and I'm sure many others as well would really like to see the raw data from some of those dyno sessions. By that I mean all the actual meaningful stuff like BSFC, BMEP, SCFM, etc. etc. Admittedly I'm somewhat surprised at your unwillingness to share that info and so are many others that have shared their thoughts with me.
With all that aside, as an engine builder myself I have a pretty good idea how much time and expense has gone into getting the engine to where it is at this point. Thanks for sharing some of what you've done so far. I (and many others)just think it would be great if you would go to that next step on the dyno info.
good luck with that!
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#804421
07/22/13 08:54 PM
07/22/13 08:54 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,028
Trumbull,CT.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The intake is back from Wilson. They did a super nice job on it. I don't know how they port these things, but the finish is super nice all the way down the runners.
I still when I look at the work Wilson did to that intake...
I agree. I still can't figure out how they did this work. The finish looks like they took super tiny cuts on a CNC mill but I don't see how that is possible. If they did this work by hand they are very, very skilled. The porting work did cost about $1000 so it wasn't cheap. But it worked and it looks super cool.
Wilson is no joke. We saw a similar increase with the "420" intake on our W8.
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: Old School]
#804423
07/23/13 09:44 AM
07/23/13 09:44 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Great work as always, andy!
Any dyno sheets you can post up?
Be interesting to see where the hp/torque curves overlay, I'd say the majority of the 500" stuff on here are aimed more toward true 'dual purpose' street/strip car....so more power up top at the expense of torque through the middle isn't always the best trade-off on a heavier car with street gears and an automatic.
Thanks!
Bobby
I think now that your dyno shows around 1.8 HP per cube, that engine has become quite the dyno mule. It makes me wonder if people across the country could follow that exact recipe and come up with the same numbers consistently. To think An EZ headed combo could make that much horsepower (928 HP so far)is surprising at the very least. I've seen guy's build B-1 combo's that only make about 25-50 HP more than that.
I have to admit that I too and I'm sure many others as well would really like to see the raw data from some of those dyno sessions. By that I mean all the actual meaningful stuff like BSFC, BMEP, SCFM, etc. etc. Admittedly I'm somewhat surprised at your unwillingness to share that info and so are many others that have shared their thoughts with me.
With all that aside, as an engine builder myself I have a pretty good idea how much time and expense has gone into getting the engine to where it is at this point. Thanks for sharing some of what you've done so far. I (and many others)just think it would be great if you would go to that next step on the dyno info.
good luck with that!
Keep holding your breath....  he won't even tell you why he won't post up a Dyno sheet..... 
If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#804424
07/23/13 12:56 PM
07/23/13 12:56 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
|
Quote:
Quote:
Hi Andy, I took the liberty of plugging in the numbers on the new combo, I use engine analyzer pro and with 15:1 compression, the ez heads, 7.1 rods, new cam, ported intake and 1200 cfm carb, the 514 made 918hp at 6600rpm and 802ftlb at 5200.
I ran the water temp at 140f
Sounds good. I'm shooting for 900 hp so we'll see if it makes it or not. Does Engine Analyzer Pro have inputs for dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum? I haven't ever used the Pro version of the software. I know that the combination of thinner rings, dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum is worth up to 50 hp in some engine combinations, but I'm not so sure we have the correct recipe yet for this engine.
Yes it does, the selection is "low engine case pressure or dry sump".
I made another pull with low tension rings and it made 924hp at 6750rpm. It's pretty cool how close the numbers are.
Edit: I just noticed that I had the water temp at 165, I moved it to 155 and I also had the carb cfm at 1300, so I left it there and it made 929hp@7000rpm and 830ftlb of torque at 5000rpm.
Last edited by moparmanjames; 07/23/13 01:54 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: moparmanjames]
#804426
07/23/13 02:36 PM
07/23/13 02:36 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hi Andy, I took the liberty of plugging in the numbers on the new combo, I use engine analyzer pro and with 15:1 compression, the ez heads, 7.1 rods, new cam, ported intake and 1200 cfm carb, the 514 made 918hp at 6600rpm and 802ftlb at 5200.
I ran the water temp at 140f
Sounds good. I'm shooting for 900 hp so we'll see if it makes it or not. Does Engine Analyzer Pro have inputs for dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum? I haven't ever used the Pro version of the software. I know that the combination of thinner rings, dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum is worth up to 50 hp in some engine combinations, but I'm not so sure we have the correct recipe yet for this engine.
Yes it does, the selection is "low engine case pressure or dry sump".
I made another pull with low tension rings and it made 924hp at 6750rpm. It's pretty cool how close the numbers are.
Edit: I just noticed that I had the water temp at 165, I moved it to 155 and I also had the carb cfm at 1300, so I left it there and it made [Email]929hp@7000rpm[/Email] and 830ftlb of torque at 5000rpm.
What number are you plugging in for cylinder head CFM port flow in the program?
I read through the whole thread again and all I can find is where it was posted the heads flow 360 cfm. Is that still unchanged?
Lastly, How much air is the engine pulling through the carb at peak power?
machine shop owner and engine builder
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: Performance Only]
#804427
07/23/13 08:09 PM
07/23/13 08:09 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hi Andy, I took the liberty of plugging in the numbers on the new combo, I use engine analyzer pro and with 15:1 compression, the ez heads, 7.1 rods, new cam, ported intake and 1200 cfm carb, the 514 made 918hp at 6600rpm and 802ftlb at 5200.
I ran the water temp at 140f
Sounds good. I'm shooting for 900 hp so we'll see if it makes it or not. Does Engine Analyzer Pro have inputs for dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum? I haven't ever used the Pro version of the software. I know that the combination of thinner rings, dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum is worth up to 50 hp in some engine combinations, but I'm not so sure we have the correct recipe yet for this engine.
Yes it does, the selection is "low engine case pressure or dry sump".
I made another pull with low tension rings and it made 924hp at 6750rpm. It's pretty cool how close the numbers are.
Edit: I just noticed that I had the water temp at 165, I moved it to 155 and I also had the carb cfm at 1300, so I left it there and it made [Email]929hp@7000rpm[/Email] and 830ftlb of torque at 5000rpm.
What number are you plugging in for cylinder head CFM port flow in the program?
I read through the whole thread again and all I can find is where it was posted the heads flow 360 cfm. Is that still unchanged?
Lastly, How much air is the engine pulling through the carb at peak power?
I'm using 380cfm but I'm just guessing because he said he kept working them to get more. I got 902 hp when I had them at 360. Actual CFM peak was 1117 at 7000.
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: AndyF]
#804428
07/23/13 08:22 PM
07/23/13 08:22 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
|
Quote:
That is pretty cool that the model is that close on HP. The engine isn't making that much torque though so it is off there.
I didn't realize the new version of the software had all of those features. The older version that I had years ago didn't have pan vacuum or water temp.
Oil temp is also important. The HP goes up when the oil temp goes up. We kept trying to get the oil hotter but couldn't. Oil was fairly heavy BR from Joe Gibbs. A thinner race oil would probably be worth another 10 hp or so.
Yeah no doubt, I'm curious as to how close my guess was on the head flow, I'm shooting for similar numbers but I'm going the easier route with B1's and a Kieth Black short deck.
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: moparmanjames]
#804429
07/23/13 11:35 PM
07/23/13 11:35 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hi Andy, I took the liberty of plugging in the numbers on the new combo, I use engine analyzer pro and with 15:1 compression, the ez heads, 7.1 rods, new cam, ported intake and 1200 cfm carb, the 514 made 918hp at 6600rpm and 802ftlb at 5200.
I ran the water temp at 140f
Sounds good. I'm shooting for 900 hp so we'll see if it makes it or not. Does Engine Analyzer Pro have inputs for dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum? I haven't ever used the Pro version of the software. I know that the combination of thinner rings, dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum is worth up to 50 hp in some engine combinations, but I'm not so sure we have the correct recipe yet for this engine.
Yes it does, the selection is "low engine case pressure or dry sump".
I made another pull with low tension rings and it made 924hp at 6750rpm. It's pretty cool how close the numbers are.
Edit: I just noticed that I had the water temp at 165, I moved it to 155 and I also had the carb cfm at 1300, so I left it there and it made [Email]929hp@7000rpm[/Email] and 830ftlb of torque at 5000rpm.
What number are you plugging in for cylinder head CFM port flow in the program?
I read through the whole thread again and all I can find is where it was posted the heads flow 360 cfm. Is that still unchanged?
Lastly, How much air is the engine pulling through the carb at peak power?
I'm using 380cfm but I'm just guessing because he said he kept working them to get more. I got 902 hp when I had them at 360. Actual CFM peak was 1117 at 7000.
Thank you. Are you saying the actual peak in the dyno sim was 1117 or on the real engine?
machine shop owner and engine builder
|
|
|
Re: 514 on the dyno
[Re: Performance Only]
#804430
07/24/13 01:00 AM
07/24/13 01:00 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hi Andy, I took the liberty of plugging in the numbers on the new combo, I use engine analyzer pro and with 15:1 compression, the ez heads, 7.1 rods, new cam, ported intake and 1200 cfm carb, the 514 made 918hp at 6600rpm and 802ftlb at 5200.
I ran the water temp at 140f
Sounds good. I'm shooting for 900 hp so we'll see if it makes it or not. Does Engine Analyzer Pro have inputs for dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum? I haven't ever used the Pro version of the software. I know that the combination of thinner rings, dry sump oiling and crankcase vacuum is worth up to 50 hp in some engine combinations, but I'm not so sure we have the correct recipe yet for this engine.
Yes it does, the selection is "low engine case pressure or dry sump".
I made another pull with low tension rings and it made 924hp at 6750rpm. It's pretty cool how close the numbers are.
Edit: I just noticed that I had the water temp at 165, I moved it to 155 and I also had the carb cfm at 1300, so I left it there and it made [Email]929hp@7000rpm[/Email] and 830ftlb of torque at 5000rpm.
What number are you plugging in for cylinder head CFM port flow in the program?
I read through the whole thread again and all I can find is where it was posted the heads flow 360 cfm. Is that still unchanged?
Lastly, How much air is the engine pulling through the carb at peak power?
I'm using 380cfm but I'm just guessing because he said he kept working them to get more. I got 902 hp when I had them at 360. Actual CFM peak was 1117 at 7000.
Thank you. Are you saying the actual peak in the dyno sim was 1117 or on the real engine?
Sorry for the confusion, that was on the Dyno Sim.
|
|
|
|
|
