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'68 SS/B historical question #797002 09/09/10 10:05 AM 09/09/10 10:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA R Rick_Ehrenberg OP top fuel
Rick_Ehrenberg OP top fuel R Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA	Does anyone remember what the '68 Hemi Darts and 'Cudas typically ran when new (ET and MPH), and what the NHRA record was for that first year? Thanks, Rick

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #797003 09/09/10 11:09 AM 09/09/10 11:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,849 F fullmetaljacket master
fullmetaljacket master F Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,849	I believe that they ran some where in the mid to high 11's. That is if the motor as it came from Chrysler stood together. Once the racer got delivery of the car from Hurst and broke down the crudely assembled motor in order to re-blue print, re-balance, re-square, re-deck re-clean and reassembled it, then they ran the stink out of the competition to the likes of high to mid high 10's. From there on every ounce and tweaking got them in the respective low to solid mid 10's. Never looked back from there on with all the modern add on and side salads.

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: fullmetaljacket] #797004 09/09/10 12:07 PM 09/09/10 12:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,763 Walton's Mountain, Pa Steve1118 master
Steve1118 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,763 Walton's Mountain, Pa	The "mule" Barracuda went 10.70-10.80 in testing the combination. I don't know anyone who took one right off of the showroom floor and raced it.....they went to racers who went through them before running them. The earliest I remember them in competition was around April....my cousin's A990 car raced against Vanke's at Quaker City, and Vanke was running in the 10.40-10.50 range, as I recall. The biggies were in the 10.20-10.0 range by the end of the year. "Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Steve1118] #797005 09/09/10 12:51 PM 09/09/10 12:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Quote: The "mule" Barracuda went 10.70-10.80 in testing the combination. I don't know anyone who took one right off of the showroom floor and raced it.....they went to racers who went through them before running them. The earliest I remember them in competition was around April....my cousin's A990 car raced against Vanke's at Quaker City, and Vanke was running in the 10.40-10.50 range, as I recall. The biggies were in the 10.20-10.0 range by the end of the year. Mid to high tens originally,early 70s when classed SS/A from the original SS/B class we ran of the national index of 10.14 [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: B G Racing] #797006 09/10/10 12:25 PM 09/10/10 12:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA R Rick_Ehrenberg OP top fuel
Rick_Ehrenberg OP top fuel R Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA	Thanks much! I'm doing a story on what's inside the latest 8.2 sec engines...amazing stuff, esp. when you consider that weight, displacement, port volume, carbs, compression, valve size, etc., haven't changed one whit from 1968. Now producing something like 2.4 HP/CID! Rick

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #797007 09/10/10 12:43 PM 09/10/10 12:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY HEMIFRED master
HEMIFRED master Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY	Quote: Thanks much! I'm doing a story on what's inside the latest 8.2 sec engines...amazing stuff, esp. when you consider that weight, displacement, port volume, carbs, compression, valve size, etc., haven't changed one whit from 1968. Now producing something like 2.4 HP/CID! Rick THE LATEST ? Great choice of subject matter that we all would like to learn about them. However there's no way I see anyone revealing anything informative newer than a few years. maybe the weight and engine specs as per the rulebook but nothing eye opening. home of the Sox and Martin Hemi Duster

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: HEMIFRED] #797008 09/10/10 01:36 PM 09/10/10 01:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA R Rick_Ehrenberg OP top fuel
Rick_Ehrenberg OP top fuel R Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA	Quote: THE LATEST ? Great choice of subject matter that we all would like to learn about them. However there's no way I see anyone revealing anything informative newer than a few years. maybe the weight and engine specs as per the rulebook but nothing eye opening. You might be surprised. 9800 RPM, and how it is done, reliably.

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #797009 09/10/10 01:45 PM 09/10/10 01:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 970 Backwater, PA B bwdst6 Bob George Racing #1 Fan
bwdst6 Bob George Racing #1 Fan B Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 970 Backwater, PA	This post is available in double vision where drunk.

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: bwdst6] #797010 09/10/10 02:13 PM 09/10/10 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,763 Walton's Mountain, Pa Steve1118 master
Steve1118 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,763 Walton's Mountain, Pa	Rick...reliability is a relative term. I, too, am amazed at the power they are getting out of the motors, with steel rods, stock valve size, etc., but there is a lot things going on that are really hush-hush. The heads are cut down, and then the ports enlarged so it matches the original port area. If you'd try to put one of their intakes on my mostly stock Hemi it would drop into the valley area. They use things like zero weight oil, Honda wristpins, and things like that that compromise the longetivity of the engine. A pal of mine has four Barton motors...he puts twenty five passes on one, and then sends it back to be freshened up, and keeps rotating them. Now that Grumpy Jenkins and Reher-Morrison have thrown their hat in the SS Hemi ring who knows what else is going to be developed. CW and Barton, and others have done an absolute incredible job. Unbelieveable that after forty some odd years they keep wringing hp out of that combo. I love those cars, and still think they are the baddest Detroit iron ever produced. The Hemi Challenge is the highlight of the racing year...but those motors are not made to last a season, at least as the average racer understands it....they are made to run real, real, fast. And, they do. And, they keep running faster. BTW, SS/AH is really missing one of the classiest racers of them all, Harry Holton. I fully understand why he retired, but Harry, thanks for the memories!!! I'm really, really, looking forward to your piece. Last edited by Steve1118; 09/10/10 02:27 PM. "Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #797011 09/10/10 03:50 PM 09/10/10 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,531 Jacksonville, FL Chris2581 master
Chris2581 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,531 Jacksonville, FL	Sox ran 10.29 in SS/B at the Dallas WCS event in 1969. Nautilus Racing- We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Steve1118] #797012 09/10/10 04:15 PM 09/10/10 04:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA R Rick_Ehrenberg OP top fuel
Rick_Ehrenberg OP top fuel R Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA	Quote: <snip>...The heads are cut down, and then the ports enlarged so it matches the original port area. If you'd try to put one of their intakes on my mostly stock Hemi it would drop into the valley area. It was (is) my understanding that port area isn't controlled, only port volume. (Am I correct on this? NHRA doesn't seem to have the rules on their site.) And, yes, they do reduce the deck height, although, to quote the guy who allowed me into his shop for this, "we backed away from that a lot..." As you mentioned, it is amazing - almost 10,000 RPM, with heavy pushrods and valves. Crazy stuff! Thanks again to all, Rick E.

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #797013 09/10/10 11:58 PM 09/10/10 11:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,848 A collage of whims topside Too Many Posts
topside Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,848 A collage of whims	Very good to hear - can't get enough of those cars, since they were new. Supposedly pretty evil-handling when they were brand-new, too. A few years ago at MATS Joe Flaherty left at something like 9000 in his stick car - said he'd goofed up - but I'll never forget it. I thought the earth was gonna move.

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: topside] #797014 09/11/10 01:23 AM 09/11/10 01:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY HEMIFRED master
HEMIFRED master Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY	Quote: As you mentioned, it is amazing - almost 10,000 RPM, with heavy pushrods and valves. Crazy stuff! in the very early years of pro stock we ran them well into the 9,000 rpm range.We were using stock rocker arms not rollers. rods and pistons that weighed twice as much. looking back it is hard to beleive. then there were those NASCAR rods home of the Sox and Martin Hemi Duster

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: HEMIFRED] #797015 09/11/10 01:46 AM 09/11/10 01:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion	Quote: Quote: As you mentioned, it is amazing - almost 10,000 RPM, with heavy pushrods and valves. Crazy stuff! in the very early years of pro stock we ran them well into the 9,000 rpm range.We were using stock rocker arms not rollers. rods and pistons that weighed twice as much. looking back it is hard to beleive. then there were those NASCAR rods I read somewere that Landy and a few guys would load em up on an engine dyno, set em at a very high rpm and go to lunch and which ever lived when they came back went racing. Any truth to this? 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Thumperdart] #797016 09/11/10 09:48 AM 09/11/10 09:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa S scatpacktom master
scatpacktom master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,103 Phila Pa	I'm looking forward to the article myself

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: scatpacktom] #797017 09/11/10 10:03 AM 09/11/10 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,763 Walton's Mountain, Pa Steve1118 master
Steve1118 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,763 Walton's Mountain, Pa	"I read somewere that Landy and a few guys would load em up on an engine dyno, set em at a very high rpm and go to lunch and which ever lived when they came back went racing. Any truth to this?" I don't know if Landy did it, but in 1964 when the motors came out, Garlits will tell you that he would go to Cotton Owens' shop for lunch, they'd set it at the 425 hp mark on the dyno, and head to lunch. If it was still running when they got back it was a "good one". Cotton Owens was a big time NASCAR owner then, who owned the David Pearson driven Dodges. He and Garlits were and are close friends, and both were heavily involved in the development of the engine for their respective venues. Garlits is the one who made it work on nitro. Last edited by Steve1118; 09/11/10 10:07 AM. "Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Steve1118] #797018 09/11/10 10:20 AM 09/11/10 10:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY HEMIFRED master
HEMIFRED master Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY	Quote: "I read somewere that Landy and a few guys would load em up on an engine dyno, set em at a very high rpm and go to lunch and which ever lived when they came back went racing. Any truth to this?" I don't know if Landy did it, but in 1964 when the motors came out, Garlits will tell you that he would go to Cotton Owens' shop for lunch, they'd set it at the 425 hp mark on the dyno, and head to lunch. If it was still running when they got back it was a "good one". Cotton Owens was a big time NASCAR owner then, who owned the David Pearson driven Dodges. He and Garlits were and are close friends, and both were heavily involved in the development of the engine for their respective venues. Garlits is the one who made it work on nitro. I sat and heard BIG DADDY tell a story about not wanting to run the new 426 becasue he had just broke the 200 mph mark with his 392. They had not been able to do that yet with a 426.At the time he made his money on the circut and 200 mph was the key for getting bookings. Chrysler told him he had to use the 426.To date it would only run 197 mph. So Don decided to blow it up by advancing the timing well beyond what he assumed would be theat point. He put it at 40 degrees which should have made it a handgrenade. Well it didn't and ran a 205mph. next pass he put it at 45 degrees and the result was a 213 mph pass. By accident with no intention to do so he found the key to making it run. home of the Sox and Martin Hemi Duster

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: HEMIFRED] #797019 09/11/10 10:39 AM 09/11/10 10:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere S S/ST 3040 master
S/ST 3040 master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere	I "read" he cranked it up to 40� figuring it would scatter. IIRC, he was pissed it wouldn't outrun the 392" platform. Now back to the topic. 2010 US Nationals 6190070-2010USNationals043.jpg (112 downloads)

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: S/ST 3040] #797020 09/11/10 12:34 PM 09/11/10 12:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 406 Oregon,USA R RAT PATROL mopar
RAT PATROL mopar R Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 406 Oregon,USA	Awesome that I got to see those 68 cars debut, but for us and every true B car, we went from being heavy hitters to fodder. Mom was running 11.40, Dave Wren and Colletti showed up at 10.80s. Eliminator was ran off national records, so even when they didn't show, we were done. We did what any real competitor would do when you're out gunned and over ruled. Steroids (Hydrazine), I think you rubbed it on the tires and it gave you good traction. 6190197-Dorothy.jpg (63 downloads) Last edited by RAT PATROL; 09/11/10 12:43 PM.

Re: '68 SS/B historical question [Re: Steve1118] #797021 09/11/10 12:37 PM 09/11/10 12:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion T Thumperdart I Live Here
Thumperdart I Live Here T Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,318 State of confusion	Quote: "I read somewere that Landy and a few guys would load em up on an engine dyno, set em at a very high rpm and go to lunch and which ever lived when they came back went racing. Any truth to this?" I don't know if Landy did it, but in 1964 when the motors came out, Garlits will tell you that he would go to Cotton Owens' shop for lunch, they'd set it at the 425 hp mark on the dyno, and head to lunch. If it was still running when they got back it was a "good one". Cotton Owens was a big time NASCAR owner then, who owned the David Pearson driven Dodges. He and Garlits were and are close friends, and both were heavily involved in the development of the engine for their respective venues. Garlits is the one who made it work on nitro. Maybe that`s the story I heard Intesting stuff for sure. 72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

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