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Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: Kam*Kuda] #791567
09/04/10 09:01 AM
09/04/10 09:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
T
The Shadow Offline OP
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The Shadow  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
Doc
I stand corrected
Rob, It's the same issue

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791568
09/04/10 09:49 AM
09/04/10 09:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441 Offline
master
Leon441  Offline
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Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Don't rush into a new case. I tried three when a VB manufacturer insisted it couldn't be his VB.

That was just more stuff to get rid of when I got pissed and switched to something else, glide. I don't necessarily recommend that. Glides are great in some applications but are costly for a high HP peice. Three gears is better than one if you can get the ratios you want.

Leon


Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: dOrk !] #791569
09/04/10 10:23 AM
09/04/10 10:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
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Quote:

Will hold up to 6 friction plates versus 4 in the O.E.M. unit.
55%, YES that's 55% MORE Piston Apply Surface Area! This results in double the clamping force needed in third gear - Just what you need for high performance and EXTREME applications.

This is 55% more CLUTCH SURFACE ... not piston size.

You need to clear-up and make-sure of that line pressure !!




Sorry Doctor donkey, TCS has a drum that uses a LARGER PISTON , the outer seal ring is a square cut ring from a GM application , can't remember but TCS sent me one of them to test for them when they were getting it ready to market to see how well it worked.

Quote:

Doc
I stand corrected






No , you don't stand corrected .

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: JohnRR] #791570
09/04/10 12:07 PM
09/04/10 12:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
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Hot Rod Ridge
Lmao at the slowest guy in the post has to call people names. Johnrr how much power you making and how many laps you have on the combo?

I'm betting not much of either.

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: FastmOp] #791571
09/04/10 01:06 PM
09/04/10 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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JohnRR  Offline
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Quote:

Lmao at the slowest guy in the post has to call people names. Johnrr how much power you making and how many laps you have on the combo?

I'm betting not much of either.




420HP at the rear wheels with roughly 1200ft/lbs of torque, Cummins Diesel at 6700lbs and enough laps to accomplish what I wanted.

If the good doctor understood the link he was reading he would not have claimed the person that linked it and those that have used it were wrong. I'm only uses one of my pet names for my good friend the Proctologist of fiberglass ... we go way back

As far as me being the slowest, so what? there is ALWAYS someone faster, I'm sure you've met your fair share of them ...

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: JohnRR] #791572
09/04/10 02:18 PM
09/04/10 02:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOrk !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

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Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
Good ole RR ... ...

Him and his childish mud-throwing and not actually READING(and using common sense) what I and TCS actually had to say ? .... same stuff - DIFF day !

Name calling ? ... I will not go-down to his level.

But READ the direct quote off-of their site ... they mention clutches, the number of clutches and then 55%. I do not know the actual size of the TCS piston ... it could be larger ... but it is uNpossible for it to be 55% larger than the OEM-stocker. The drum itself would have to muchO larger on the OD(it could not be on the ID)it then would not fit into an OEM trans case.

EVERYONE here knows RR. He has some decent info between his ears ... but many people think that this positive aspect of him is ruined by his uNprovoked childish behavior.

Let me add ...I do think it is kind-of-interesting that he mentions NOTHING about line-pressure .... when IMO this is the most important factor ...and many other people agree.

But ole RR would rather act like a little-school-girl in a sand-box ..

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: dOrk !] #791573
09/04/10 03:39 PM
09/04/10 03:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
T
The Shadow Offline OP
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The Shadow  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
Okay boys no need to throw sand in the sandbox.

I don't know what the pressure is.We're not checking it until after the autopsy and heart transplant.
Leon you may be right and it is the v/b.
It would be just my luck to have 2 v/b's that are lemons.

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: dOrk !] #791574
09/04/10 04:52 PM
09/04/10 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

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Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
Quote:

But READ the direct quote off-of their site ... they mention clutches, the number of clutches and then 55%. I do not know the actual size of the TCS piston ... it could be larger ... but it is uNpossible for it to be 55% larger than the OEM-stocker. The drum itself would have to muchO larger on the OD(it could not be on the ID)it then would not fit into an OEM trans case.




The exact quote from the website is "55%, YES that's 55% MORE Piston Apply Surface Area!" so they are talking about the piston apply surface area not the clutch surface.

The piston bore of the factory 727 drum is 5.625" for a surface area of 24.3 sq. in. 155% of that would be 37.67 sq. in. which would need a piston bore diameter of 6.93" (correct my math if I screwed up) which, when subtracted from a drum diameter of 7.50" would leave a wall thickness of .285"...pretty thin for a cast drum but doable with a high-strength alloy billet drum.

The pic on the website shows the piston bore extending all the way to the floater disc notches.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791575
09/04/10 06:27 PM
09/04/10 06:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 224
in the middle
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dodger mope Offline
enthusiast
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Posts: 224
in the middle
I did not see the clearence for the plates,but you can overheat the front cluthes in low gear if to tight.

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: 440Jim] #791576
09/04/10 06:46 PM
09/04/10 06:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
master
RemCharger  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
Quote:


3.8 lever, dual spring servo (old style), ie trying to avoid 2-3 overlap which can hurt the clutches.



Thats what i was thinking,,, overlap issues. trying to apply 2nd and 3rd at the same time ,, with lots of power,, will kill the high clutches in short order.
Then again, could be d**m-near anything...

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: RemCharger] #791577
09/04/10 11:00 PM
09/04/10 11:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 18
Ohio
W
wedgg440 Offline
member
wedgg440  Offline
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Posts: 18
Ohio
I assume you are using the wide bushing alum.drum.This drum requires the 1971 and up reaction support with the drum oil feed hole modified by grinding the hole between the two seal ring grooves down to the bottom of the hole intersecting it.This will greatly increase the oil volume to the piston chamber area more quickly providing increased holding pressure to the discs.You can see this more clearly explained in Carl Munroe's Torqueflite Transmission Handbook.HPBOOKS-1399 p.164 and 181.

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: wedgg440] #791578
09/05/10 04:48 PM
09/05/10 04:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 248
Sweden
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Tobbe Offline
enthusiast
Tobbe  Offline
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Posts: 248
Sweden
couldnīt the direct clutch "selfaply" centrifugal force effekt the small amount of oil behind the direktclutch piston ,thats why to ad a bleedhole and more springs ?

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: Tobbe] #791579
09/05/10 04:59 PM
09/05/10 04:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts

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Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA

Factory drums have a check ball to prevent centrifugal apply, don't know about aftermarket.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: dOrk !] #791580
09/06/10 11:30 AM
09/06/10 11:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
Quote:

Good ole RR ... ...

Him and his childish mud-throwing and not actually READING(and using common sense) what I and TCS actually had to say ? .... same stuff - DIFF day !

Name calling ? ... I will not go-down to his level.

But READ the direct quote off-of their site ... they mention clutches, the number of clutches and then 55%. I do not know the actual size of the TCS piston ... it could be larger ... but it is uNpossible for it to be 55% larger than the OEM-stocker. The drum itself would have to muchO larger on the OD(it could not be on the ID)it then would not fit into an OEM trans case.

EVERYONE here knows RR. He has some decent info between his ears ... but many people think that this positive aspect of him is ruined by his uNprovoked childish behavior.

Let me add ...I do think it is kind-of-interesting that he mentions NOTHING about line-pressure .... when IMO this is the most important factor ...and many other people agree.

But ole RR would rather act like a little-school-girl in a sand-box ..






As far as the piston vs. clutches , ADDING 2 clutches and steels to a 4 clutch pack will not be a 55% increase , maybe 50% , but not 55%.

The piston is larger, I've held it in my hands. Just an FYI I have 6 clutches in a 4 clutch drum with .110 clearance , dry , in the clutch pack. To use the TCS drum with the higher snap ring you might have trim the rear clutch retainer a tad to clear the snap ring , I did it in about 10 minutes in a lathe .

Last edited by JohnRR; 09/06/10 05:58 PM.
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: JohnRR] #791581
09/06/10 12:23 PM
09/06/10 12:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,397
Toronto Ontario, Can
Glen440 Offline
pro stock
Glen440  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,397
Toronto Ontario, Can
Quote:

Quote:

Good ole RR ... ...

Him and his childish mud-throwing and not actually READING(and using common sense) what I and TCS actually had to say ? .... same stuff - DIFF day !

Name calling ? ... I will not go-down to his level.

But READ the direct quote off-of their site ... they mention clutches, the number of clutches and then 55%. I do not know the actual size of the TCS piston ... it could be larger ... but it is uNpossible for it to be 55% larger than the OEM-stocker. The drum itself would have to muchO larger on the OD(it could not be on the ID)it then would not fit into an OEM trans case.

EVERYONE here knows RR. He has some decent info between his ears ... but many people think that this positive aspect of him is ruined by his uNprovoked childish behavior.

Let me add ...I do think it is kind-of-interesting that he mentions NOTHING about line-pressure .... when IMO this is the most important factor ...and many other people agree.

But ole RR would rather act like a little-school-girl in a sand-box ..




Look up the word HYPOCRIT there Mr. Dr. fiberglASS

As far as the piston vs. clutches , ADDING 2 clutches and steels to a 4 clutch pack will not be a 55% increase , maybe 50% , but not 55%.

The piston is larger, I've held it in my hands. Just an FYI I have 6 clutches in a 4 clutch drum with .110 clearance , dry , in the clutch pack. To use the TCS drum with the higher snap ring you might have trim the rear clutch retainer a tad to clear the snap ring , I did it in about 10 minutes in a lathe .




JohnRR is right, I had Marks drum in my hands. The apply piston is bigger and the drum uses all available surface. The groove the stock drum has for the front pump vent is not there and you trim the plastic for this drum.


87 dakota 6.1 hemi
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: Glen440] #791582
09/06/10 01:03 PM
09/06/10 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
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Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
Quote:

Quote:



The piston is larger, I've held it in my hands. Just an FYI I have 6 clutches in a 4 clutch drum with .110 clearance , dry , in the clutch pack. To use the TCS drum with the higher snap ring you might have trim the rear clutch retainer a tad to clear the snap ring , I did it in about 10 minutes in a lathe .




JohnRR is right, I had Marks drum in my hands. The apply piston is bigger and the drum uses all available surface. The groove the stock drum has for the front pump vent is not there and you trim the plastic for this drum.




I forgot about that, I'm pretty sure the regular size drum from TCS is like that also, I have one here I'd have to look. They also put the check ball in the wrong place, at least on the early release billet std. piston drum I have , it's towards the middle instead of near the outer edge. of the piston recess and the grooves that the steels sit in are a little tight , the steels may need some minor grinding on the ears so they move freely up and down.

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: JohnRR] #791583
09/13/10 08:16 PM
09/13/10 08:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
T
The Shadow Offline OP
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Duloc
We got the tranny apart today and checked it all out.
All the clutches were good
So really all that can mean is the converter has had it.
Hopefully my new tcs converter will work out better than the jw.

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