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Truck 440 build advice #786205 08/28/10 12:22 PM 08/28/10 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL Suregrip OP mopar
Suregrip OP mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL	I have a half ton, mid seventies dodge truck with a 440, 727, and 9.25. I am looking to select another motor to rebuild and swap out with this engine. What year motor would be best? Cast or forged crank? What compression for the build? Which camshaft? I intend to run the factory iron 452 heads, but also would consider the motor-home head if I find a set. The truck is used for mostly hauling stuff in the bed like motors, trans, rear-ends. I do also use the truck for hauling cars/boats on trailers usually less than 5000lbs. Should I use a 440 from a motor-home and keep the compression low for towing? What size convertor should I use, and which cam? Rear gears are Suregrip 3:21. Thanks! Some people you just can't reach...

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Suregrip] #786206 08/28/10 12:59 PM 08/28/10 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,430 Florida STAYcation BeEtLeJuIcE ! The village idiot's idiot
BeEtLeJuIcE ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,430 Florida STAYcation	SELL your 440 for 5 hun or so ....and pick up an indust/MH 413 for HALF that amount. It needs a set of flat-top pistons, 2010 TECH cam and better fuel delivery.

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Suregrip] #786207 08/28/10 01:01 PM 08/28/10 01:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,064 Boca Raton, Florida jpilone master
jpilone master Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,064 Boca Raton, Florida	What are you looking to accomplish with the truck? Tow Rig? Daily Driver? Etc?? -Jarrod Pilone '70 Plymouth RR Convertible with amazing custom paint(Tribute/Recreation/Whateveryouwannacallit) My Project Thread

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !] #786208 08/28/10 01:03 PM 08/28/10 01:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,825 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,825 Kirkland, Washington	Doc....you seriously have 413 on the brain. You should broker a swap with the other guy with the 413.

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Suregrip] #786209 08/28/10 01:05 PM 08/28/10 01:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	For your application, the standard cylinder head configuration should be fine. A steel crank is preferred although cast would be ok with careful inspection and prep (polish, chamfer oil holes). Any year is OK except after about 1972, most engines will have a cast crank. Beyond that it depends on how far you want to take the build. A basic solid build would use a KB 184 Hyper piston at around 9:1 cr and something like a 260H Comp "high energy" cam. If you or your shop can "fit" the KB quench dome pistons to achieve around .040" quench, it will improve the ability to run regular gas without pinging and help prevent pinging on uphill pulls with trailer. Top it with a dual plane intake and around a 750 CFM carb.

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: BeEtLeJuIcE !] #786210 08/28/10 01:06 PM 08/28/10 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL Suregrip OP mopar
Suregrip OP mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL	Right now I can pick up a 67 440, 68 440, 73 440, and a 69 440. They are all car motors except for the 73 which is from a motor home. The 73 might have the eight bolt crank and peanut plugs in the heads, but not sure yet. They are all complete and good running condition. Not really too interested in a 413 since years from now I might need to use this engine again in a car build. Plus pistons are limited for a 413 build. I am also looking for lots of low and mid-range torque so I need the cubes... Some people you just can't reach...

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #786211 08/28/10 01:09 PM 08/28/10 01:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 102 california M moparmanof85 member
moparmanof85 member M Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 102 california	sounds like a great choice, i usually have the 413 on the brain too. it keeps me alive. 6163694-IMG00221.jpg (228 downloads)

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #786212 08/28/10 01:11 PM 08/28/10 01:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,430 Florida STAYcation BeEtLeJuIcE ! The village idiot's idiot
BeEtLeJuIcE ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,430 Florida STAYcation	Quote: Doc....you seriously have 413 on the brain. You should broker a swap with the other guy with the 413. You THINK ? ..

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Suregrip] #786213 08/28/10 01:16 PM 08/28/10 01:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL Suregrip OP mopar
Suregrip OP mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL	The truck will be a daily driver(less than 20 miles) and a tow-rig maybe three or four times a month. I plan on running a Eddy dual plane and T-Quad as that's what I have been running for years on the truck. It currently has a no-name RV cam. I will continue to use the factory center-dump exhaust with full duals. So I guess I am reall wondering about compression, cam, factory head choice between 1972-1978. I could re-use my current 452s, should I use the motor-home heads? What is the number for them and do they flow the same as all the rest of the heads. I have read the articles about the factory heads but I am not sure if they covered the motor-home head? Some people you just can't reach...

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Suregrip] #786214 08/28/10 01:57 PM 08/28/10 01:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	The factory car heads 1972 and on are pretty similar in flow and capability... and should all have hardened exhaust seats which is important. Beyond that, I'd base the choice on condition and/or cost to re-furbish.

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: ahy] #786215 08/28/10 02:08 PM 08/28/10 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	Link to current thread covering head types with good info: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...;gonew=1#UNREAD

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Suregrip] #786216 08/28/10 04:07 PM 08/28/10 04:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio dodgeram440 master
dodgeram440 master Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio	Quote: The truck will be a daily driver(less than 20 miles) and a tow-rig maybe three or four times a month. I plan on running a Eddy dual plane and T-Quad as that's what I have been running for years on the truck. It currently has a no-name RV cam. I will continue to use the factory center-dump exhaust with full duals. So I guess I am reall wondering about compression, cam, factory head choice between 1972-1978. I could re-use my current 452s, should I use the motor-home heads? What is the number for them and do they flow the same as all the rest of the heads. I have read the articles about the factory heads but I am not sure if they covered the motor-home head? My 76 MH 440 has 452 heads with peanut plugs.

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: dodgeram440] #786217 08/28/10 04:53 PM 08/28/10 04:53 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 15,487 Florida S scratchnfotraction I Live Here
scratchnfotraction I Live Here S Joined: May 2003 Posts: 15,487 Florida	78 MH 440/4-v/452 peanut plug heads/center dump manifolds with 75,000 miles here in my 88 truck build used the short shaft MH 727 with a CRT full manual valve body for no TPV linkage also custom xmember/stock MH TC with an a-body 8 3/4 3.91sg thats it in the sig pic,nice and simple street truck

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: scratchnfotraction] #786218 08/28/10 06:03 PM 08/28/10 06:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL Suregrip OP mopar
Suregrip OP mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL	Thanks for all the replies so far. I would still like to hear compression, piston, cam, convertor, recommendations... Remember I am looking for torque, durability, cost, mileage, in that order. Another question, were 400s put in motor-homes? I was under the impression they were all 413s and 440s in the 70s... Some people you just can't reach...

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Suregrip] #786219 08/28/10 06:34 PM 08/28/10 06:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 102 california M moparmanof85 member
moparmanof85 member M Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 102 california	yep. i had a 20 ft dodge motorhome with a 400. it was a normal 400 though. didnt have the deep heads or the high rise water pump. i think they didnt make very many though

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: moparmanof85] #786220 08/28/10 06:39 PM 08/28/10 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL Suregrip OP mopar
Suregrip OP mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL	Thanks, didn't know about the 400s in the motor-homes. I am considering just pulling my 1977 440 out of the truck and just re-building it. I really didn't want the truck down that long but it might be the most cost effective way to do this. I would still like to hear what you guys think about piston, cam, convertor, for a truck which does a fair amount of towing. Remember half ton, 727, 9.25 with 3:21 SG... Some people you just can't reach...

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: Suregrip] #786221 08/28/10 06:40 PM 08/28/10 06:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio dodgeram440 master
dodgeram440 master Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio	Please forgive my ignorance in the following questions/statements. I am admittedly NOT an engine builder and this is all purely speculation. I'm just putting this out here for discussion as it relates to the OP's situation. Suregrip is looking for a build that will go in his truck for towing duties. It is my understanding that for best towing capabilities, you want maximum torque. This is why diesel engines are used in trucking and rail systems, they build gobs of torque. It is also my understanding that the longer the stroke, the more torque produced. Therefore, wouldn't the stroker kits that everyone is using produce more torque than a stock built 440 and therefore increase towing capacities?

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: dodgeram440] #786222 08/28/10 07:15 PM 08/28/10 07:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 102 california M moparmanof85 member
moparmanof85 member M Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 102 california	yes, but the kits on a small engine dont bring it equal to the larger engines. and the diesel thing, i hate working on them,smelling them, and the holdback rpm gains too high for a diesel with a big load

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: moparmanof85] #786223 08/28/10 07:27 PM 08/28/10 07:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio dodgeram440 master
dodgeram440 master Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio	I didn't think a stroker kit would equal the torque of a semi's diesel engine, and I'm sure the poster doesn't want to go thru the hassles of swapping a cummins into his 1/2 ton truck. I'm just thinking that if he is looking at building an engine for towing, a stroker kit would be beneficial over a stock dimension build for producing torque.

Re: Truck 440 build advice [Re: dodgeram440] #786224 08/28/10 07:28 PM 08/28/10 07:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL Suregrip OP mopar
Suregrip OP mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Fort Lauderdale, FL	I think you are correct about the torque and the towing with a stroker in the 440. I will check into kits from 440 source. Anyone else I should look at for a kit? I didn't want to get too crazy with the cost beyond that for a quality rebuild though... I would think I could get close to 500 foot pounds of torque out of a well rebuilt 440. Question remains though, which cam, piston, convertor, etc... Last edited by Suregrip; 08/28/10 07:30 PM. Some people you just can't reach...

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